Baldyman Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Mmmmm🤔 I think I shall stick to my transponder idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Â So you have 4 bars, or chocks, placed behind each rear wheel, each on a chord that allows them to be cleared off the track quickly and simply...it's not rocket science. And there's usually enough "helpers" at the start gate that could be engaged to help the start marshal with this task. You could even get brolly dolly's to choreograph something into their routines...who knows? ...reminds me of the story that when the late Billy Sanders was lined up at the gate one of the marshalls literally grabbed the rear bar that used to go over the top of the rear mudguard thus raising Billy's rear wheel just as the tapes went up thus putting him at a disadvantage! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Lee Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 If you allow anticipating, it's still open not ideal, ref will let some go that he thought were anticipated but were actually jumped and some pull back some for a jump that were not. Transponders are the best solution in my mind. Or a different way of starting races. Â The worst ones are when a rider clearly mucks his start up and only hinders himself, but the ref stops it and gives him another go, does that happen in any other motor sport?? Not that I've seen. Anticipating and jumping are the same thing. If the tapes are not broken, it should be no offence and the race continues. Pulling back and rolling is what gives you the real advantage, but it is easy to detect. As someone said above, ask Hans Andersen.... On the other hand, I have never seen James Serjeant get a roller, yet he is persecuted by refs for being a good anticipator and/or having better reactions than others. (I have no connection with James, never met him). Â So you have 4 bars, or chocks, placed behind each rear wheel, each on a chord that allows them to be cleared off the track quickly and simply...it's not rocket science. And there's usually enough "helpers" at the start gate that could be engaged to help the start marshal with this task. You could even get brolly dolly's to choreograph something into their routines...who knows? Spot on. Simple and effective, without transponders. Don't know what those are, but I'll bet they cost as much as a speedway engine (well, an old JAP at least). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Just a thought but is it easier to anticipate off gates 1 and 4 because it's easier to see the magnets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Anticipating and jumping are the same thing. If the tapes are not broken, it should be no offence and the race continues. Pulling back and rolling is what gives you the real advantage, but it is easy to detect. As someone said above, ask Hans Andersen.... On the other hand, I have never seen James Serjeant get a roller, yet he is persecuted by refs for being a good anticipator and/or having better reactions than others. (I have no connection with James, never met him). Â Spot on. Simple and effective, without transponders. Don't know what those are, but I'll bet they cost as much as a speedway engine (well, an old JAP at least). You just proving my point why it's unfair, some get away with it and some don't. A transponder is a device the sends a signal to a box, you can get them for as little as just over 20 quid. Just a thought but is it easier to anticipate off gates 1 and 4 because it's easier to see the magnets If you anticipate., then it doesn't matter if you can see magnets or not. Riders start behind tapes..run to bikes and have le mans style starts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balderdash&piffle Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 You just proving my point why it's unfair, some get away with it and some don't. A transponder is a device the sends a signal to a box, you can get them for as little as just over 20 quid. Â If you anticipate., then it doesn't matter if you can see magnets or not. Riders start behind tapes..run to bikes and have le mans style starts Oh dear !. I think it is time to scrap the tapes, and get a man with a flag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) What about a women with a flag?? Don't want to be sexist   Most sports don't have as much problems Edited October 19, 2017 by baldyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balderdash&piffle Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 What about a women with a flag?? Don't want to be sexist   Most sports don't have as much problems Getting better by the minute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 A very scantily dressed women with a flag, preferably under a certain age? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balderdash&piffle Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 A very scantily dressed women with a flag, preferably under a certain age? When you get to my age, most are under a certain age Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Ha ha okay. Same as most speedway supporters now . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Just a thought but is it easier to anticipate off gates 1 and 4 because it's easier to see the magnets  And if you've got a stiff neck you'll probably be slower to turn your head that way too.  And you always have to re-focus your eyes after that head movement.  Such an antiquated method of starting a race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Id just change the rules that if you don't touch the tapes then it's fine. Â What really annoys me is a rider rolls, another rider rolls and touches the tapes. The tape toucher is excluded. Yet the race has already been stopped because of the original roller. If two riders touch the tapes its the first one excluded, so surely of one jumps and causes the other to touch the tapes the tape toucher is innocent as the race has been stopped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Id just change the rules that if you don't touch the tapes then it's fine. Â What really annoys me is a rider rolls, another rider rolls and touches the tapes. The tape toucher is excluded. Yet the race has already been stopped because of the original roller. If two riders touch the tapes its the first one excluded, so surely of one jumps and causes the other to touch the tapes the tape toucher is innocent as the race has been stopped? Garry Middleton was a master in getting an opponent excluding by nudging the tapes and the rider next to him charging thru' the tapes and getting excluding for his trouble! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmauger Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 ...reminds me of the story that when the late Billy Sanders was lined up at the gate one of the marshalls literally grabbed the rear bar that used to go over the top of the rear mudguard thus raising Billy's rear wheel just as the tapes went up thus putting him at a disadvantage! Hull riders complained about the same thing happening at Sheffield once, sometime mid-1970's, was mentioned in the Hull proggie when fans decried Viking riders' gating that nite.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 What really annoys me is a rider rolls, another rider rolls and touches the tapes. The tape toucher is excluded. Yet the race has already been stopped because of the original roller. If two riders touch the tapes its the first one excluded, so surely of one jumps and causes the other to touch the tapes the tape toucher is innocent as the race has been stopped? As I said, cut out the room to roll (see my previous post) and none of this can happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Lee Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 ......A transponder is a device the sends a signal to a box, you can get them for as little as just over 20 quid.   Bit of a Whoosh there. My fault, I should have made it clear that my transponder comment was tongue-in-cheek (is there an emoji thingy for that?). However, a £20 transponder from Maplins might not last very long in the speedway environment. Then there is the "box" that you mention - i.e. the hardware and software infrastructure to make the transponder useful. A leeetle bit more than £20 for that.  Anyway, fascinating as these discussions are, they are purely acedemic. Anything that costs money to improve the sport is not going to happen, because, to paraphrase Alastair Darling, there is no money left. Would you invest in the future of speedway? Happy days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coventry1963 Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Moving at the start has been present for many, many years. Just have a look at some of the old you tube videos. Putting chocks, or anything else behind the wheels only stops a rider rolling back and then forward, it will not stop a rider anticipating the start and dropping the clutch before the tapes actually rise. If the chock was exactly a bikes length from the tapes it might make it harder for a rider to move at all without touching the tapes as, at present, the bikes have several inches between the front tyre and the tapes which means a small movement is still possible. The GP this year where the ref held the tapes for 3-5 seconds was interesting. After the first round of races, there was virtually no problem, even if there was a lot of moaning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balderdash&piffle Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Moving at the start has been present for many, many years. Just have a look at some of the old you tube videos. Putting chocks, or anything else behind the wheels only stops a rider rolling back and then forward, it will not stop a rider anticipating the start and dropping the clutch before the tapes actually rise. If the chock was exactly a bikes length from the tapes it might make it harder for a rider to move at all without touching the tapes as, at present, the bikes have several inches between the front tyre and the tapes which means a small movement is still possible. The GP this year where the ref held the tapes for 3-5 seconds was interesting. After the first round of races, there was virtually no problem, even if there was a lot of moaning! If I were a ref, I would fluctuate my release, might be 10secs next time 15secs then perhaps 20 secs, Would certainly have to hold until the tapes were released Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 If I were a ref, I would fluctuate my release, might be 10secs next time 15secs then perhaps 20 secs, Would certainly have to hold until the tapes were releasedThere would be a lot of metal lying about on starting grid if that was to happen!!!!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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