dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 Scenario A. Referee awards race 1-5 to the disadvantaged team afterwards. Scenario B. Rider 2 re-instated Which equals a total farce IMO and do you think fans will be happy not knowing who has won a race/team points until the ref makes a decision. And judging by comments on BSF most refs dont make the correct decisions now never mind when all these scenarios have to be judged. Nonsense, complete nonsense. Absolutely and all taking at least as much time as and causing delay as the the re-start scenarios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 During the GP 11 meetings so far I have been noting WARNINGS given to riders for start infringements - all but Krsko,Warsaw (didnt keep a record), and Teterow (cant find sheet) Krsko Warsaw Daugavpils 2 (ht 6, 12) Prague 4 (ht 3, 13, 20, Final) Horsens 2 (ht 2, 15) Cardiff 5 (ht 1, 6, 8, 15, Final) Malila 2 (ht 2, 10) Gorzow 0 Teterow Stockholm 6 (ht 2, 3, 7, 7, 12, 12) Torun 2 (ht 4, Final) Most common offender - Kildemand, Pawlicki, NKI, and Doyle No one seems to have faulted again in a meeting. Doesnt include those who broke the tapes - but the race has to be stopped anyway. What those figures dont show (for obvious reasons) are the number of times races are restarted because of first bend incidents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balderdash&piffle Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 Must have said it on here a 100 times If the rider does not move , and does not touch the tapes, THERE IS NO INFRINGEMENT. A rider that gets out of the tapes fast, is just that, he is a very good starter. Referees should stop interpreting this rule, it does not need interpretation, 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 Must have said it on here a 100 times If the rider does not move , and does not touch the tapes, THERE IS NO INFRINGEMENT. A rider that gets out of the tapes fast, is just that, he is a very good starter. Referees should stop interpreting this rule, it does not need interpretation, Dropping the clutch before the magnet release is an infringement even where the rider does not touch the tapes. Gaining the split second ahead of human reaction times by anticipation is an unfair advantage gained 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 Must have said it on here a 100 times If the rider does not move , and does not touch the tapes, THERE IS NO INFRINGEMENT. A rider that gets out of the tapes fast, is just that, he is a very good starter. Referees should stop interpreting this rule, it does not need interpretation, I have lost count of the number of great Starts I have seen, only to be pulled back by the Referee. Surely, anticipation is a skill in itself. Plus - if the Rider gets it wrong, he touches the Tapes and is either replaced or goes off 15 metres. Awaits Flak. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balderdash&piffle Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 Dropping the clutch before the magnet release is an infringement even where the rider does not touch the tapes. Gaining the split second ahead of human reaction times by anticipation is an unfair advantage gained No mention of magnets in the rules, rider should not move at the tapes, simple, if he drops the clutch too soon he will of either moved or go through the tapes. However if he anticipates the magnet and releases the clutch, and neither moves until then or touches the tapes, he cannot have been deemed to have an unfair advantage. PERFECT TIMING should not be penalised. I have lost count of the number of great Starts I have seen, only to be pulled back by the Referee. Surely, anticipation is a skill in itself. Plus - if the Rider gets it wrong, he touches the Tapes and is either replaced or goes off 15 metres. Awaits Flak. You are so spot on 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 Then sooner rather tgan later you will get this - Rider 1 in gate 2 jumps and so gets out in front of Rider 2 off gate 1 (the ref will exclude Rider 1 at the end) A - Rider 1 clamps Rider 2 on the kerb allowing his partner Rider 3 to run round the outside and win. Or B - Rider 2 tries to pass Rider 1 and causes him to fall and is excluded. Is Rider 2 reinstated as Rider 1 should already have been excluded or do both exclusions stand? Post race amendments would far worse than the current frustrations IMO. The point being that once the riders realise that they'll be penalised anytime they jump the start they'll stop doing it so there'll be limited instances of a to be excluded rider interfering with the outcome of the heat (check out 100m sprinting since they brought in automatic disqualification, greatly reduced the number of false starts). Also in most instances of a rider jumping the start they're off and away anyway, that's why they jump the start. Also, so what if they do! More controversy more entertaining. I sometimes wonder if people would rather speedway meetings be run on paper so the right result is always achieved. Ultimately something needs to be done to stop the number of false starts but we don't want to see numerous 3 rider races so lets just let the race continue and exclude the jumper at the end. Speedways equivalent of the offside goal. The scoring teams supporters and players celebrate the goal only to have it ruled out at which point the opponents fans celebrate. What's not to like. and do you think fans will be happy not knowing who has won a race/team points until the ref makes a decision. And judging by comments on BSF most refs dont make the correct decisions now never mind when all these scenarios have to be judged. Nonsense, complete nonsense. Same as a close finish. Just adds to the tension. Most fans will have spotted the jump start and will eagerly await the official result hoping that the jump start has/hasn't been spotted. Heaven forbid someone having to change the result in their program making it all messy......... Refs wouldn't make mistakes in this respect if they utilised the technology at their disposal. Heat ends, quick review of the smart phone footage, any jumpers excluded. The prize of avoiding numerous boring time consuming false starts has to be worth it. Unless you guys have an interest in selling clutch plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyretrax Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 If a rider falls asleep and misses the start the race doesn't get stopped but I'll bet he wasn't satisfied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrhbig Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Formula one cars are fitted with a transponder that detects any movement, with the allowance for "human" reaction being decided before hand, anything outside these parameters is a jump start. With wi-fi and such surely it would be easy for a referee to have this facility on say a laptop or such. Maybe a bit too modern for this sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray c Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) It must be the most difficult decision for the referee it really is the biggest grey area in speedway every referee interpret it different Edited October 17, 2017 by ray c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 How can a referee in a box, meters from the starting line, obstructed by lights, scaffolding, wires, etc,etc...see what a false start is and is not? A false start 0.05 of a second before the tapes are released is still a false start compared with one 0.50 of a second...but is it recognisable by the eye? Allowing starts to be judged by the eye of a referee is always going to cause conjecture. The same as times of each race...still done with a stop watch....what's the point? The sport has become a joke...it's head in the clouds. Completely cuckoo. A pic today I saw of Kelvin Tatum looking forward to the GP in Melbourne...stood next to some scaffolding and planks. Summed it up for me. Dreamers living on a building site, run by Cowboys. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Bloke Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 If a rider don't touch the tapes,it's a good start.Same for all. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 If a rider don't touch the tapes,it's a good start.Same for all. I agree - even if he anticipates the Start. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 A pic today I saw of Kelvin Tatum looking forward to the GP in Melbourne...stood next to some scaffolding and planks. I’d like to see this pic of Kelvin and the BSPA. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 I’d like to see this pic of Kelvin and the BSPA. A nice laugh at the end of the day. Thank you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balderdash&piffle Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 If a rider don't touch the tapes,it's a good start.Same for all. It really is a simple sport, as far as rules are concerned Four riders leave the tapes without an infringement, go as fast as you can, keep turning left for four laps, avoid knocking each other off, first over the line is the winner, JOB DONE. If a rider has not moved at the tapes, anticipates the magnet and lets the clutch go, (does not matter how many fractions of a second) does not touch the tapes. THERE IS NO INFRINGEMENT. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Most other motor sports go off a green light.and you very rarely get jump starts compared to speedway, so why not use a light? Or does speedway have to be different just for the sake of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Jones Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Most other motor sports go off a green light.and you very rarely get jump starts compared to speedway, so why not use a light? Or does speedway have to be different just for the sake of it? Green light starts are long gone because drivers used to anticipate the green by going when the red lights went out, which is now the current procedure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Your right baldyman, you only need to think of F1 and MotoGp to know the green light is effective. Added to that is the transponder which detects movement. I dont know whether a transponder will work for speedway. F1 and MotoGP etc have concrete base to work from, the machines dont chew up the track likw speedway does. So whether technically a transponder could be used I dont know. Maybe a green light with a electronic beam across the track would - dont know if any trials have been done. But the starting tape fiasco is just one that needs sorting, bring speedway into the 21st Century with other things too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Even if the "powers that be" at the BSPA decide at their AGM to "do something" about starting it will no doubt be in place for the first two months of the new season - just as "gardening at the start " was and then ignored by refs. Needs new technology implemented ( which is not expensive ) OR anything goes but if you do touch the tapes your are excluded. As usual can't see that the issue will be discussed or sorted out, as it seems that only fans are concerned about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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