Starting

[Hamish McRaker]

Time for annoying and time wasting re-runs caused by a rider jumping the start to be done away with.

Just let the race continue to the finish, and the offending rider gets excluded after the finish.

[Bald Bloke]

Time for annoying and time wasting re-runs caused by a rider jumping the start to be done away with.

Just let the race continue to the finish, and the offending rider gets excluded after the finish.

Won't happen.Can't happen..

The "jumper" takes the other team's rider to the fence to let his team mate through,then gets excluded after the race....An excluded rider can't be let to influence a race.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Bald Bloke

[Hamish McRaker]

Won't happen.Can't happen..

The "jumper" takes the other team's rider to the fence to let his team mate through,then gets excluded after the race....An excluded rider can't be let to influence a race.

Simple solution to that. Just remove the incentive for the "jumper" to disrupt.

Referees empowered to not only retrospectively exclude the jumper if he finishes in a point scoring position, but can also change the race result to a 1-5 if the jumper has caused disruption during the race.

[OveFundinFan]

No, no, no, much too subjective, all sorts of arguments will follow.

 

Put the offender on a warning as now, but bring the riders straight back to the tapes, no pit gate open, no mechanics fiddling with bikes.....just get them straight back......keep it simple

[waytogo28]

No, no, no, much too subjective, all sorts of arguments will follow.

 

Put the offender on a warning as now, but bring the riders straight back to the tapes, no pit gate open, no mechanics fiddling with bikes.....just get them straight back......keep it simple

 

IF ONLY - Lovely thought but as ever speedway will never get it's house in order - at any level. No consideration for the paying supporters and that is why , even in Poland speedway will fade away and cease to be. Bringing in simple effective measures seems to be the last thing on the minds of the sport's "leaders" or of making the show even more crisply presented and attractive to new fans. They can't see the wood for the trees.

[Hamish McRaker]

No, no, no, much too subjective, all sorts of arguments will follow.

 

Put the offender on a warning as now, but bring the riders straight back to the tapes, no pit gate open, no mechanics fiddling with bikes.....just get them straight back......keep it simple

Ok I admit I'm chucking a pebbles into the pond here.

 

So what about a one-minute warning (or even 30 seconds), starting immediately following the red lights coming on, and riders have to be right up at the tapes.

[The White Knight]

No, no, no, much too subjective, all sorts of arguments will follow.

 

Put the offender on a warning as now, but bring the riders straight back to the tapes, no pit gate open, no mechanics fiddling with bikes.....just get them straight back......keep it simple

Any Rider not going straight back to the start gets put on 15 metres. Meetings should be run far more efficiently than they currently are.

[brianbuck]

The only long term solution is to exclude "tape jumpers" without a warning. Either they have committed and offence or they haven't so the rules should be hard and fast - if you jump the start you are out - and there should be no reserve replacement and no 15 metre handicap.

[Grand Central]

If you dont touch the tapes.

Then the race just carries on, no exclusions.

 

Getting a 'flyer' is fine.

You just made a damn good start.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Grand Central

[Rob Lee]

Grand Central has hit the nail on the head. If you don't break the tapes then it's a fair start. Otherwise, what is the point of the tapes????

[Hodgy]

If you dont touch the tapes.

The the race just carries on, no exclusions.

 

Getting a 'flyer' is fine.

You just made a damn good start.

Understand the logic but in my opinion it would make this increasing frustration worse. 4 riders knowing they can all get away with a ‘flyer’ (to which I mean moving before the tapes) will result in even more delay(s).

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

Its cheating and shouldnt be allowed.

 

However to get the decision right it needs the right technology - transponders etc and an immediate link to the ref

[OveFundinFan]

Getting flyers is not going when the tapes go, its going BEFORE the tapes do. Not acceptable, its going back to the 70's when Mauger, Olsen and more ruled the roost.

 

Transponders would be ok but maybe not practical on a speedway track. A beam in front and at the rear of the riders. Any movement before the light that would break the beam means they out.

 

30secs/1minute not required if riders cant get attention on the track, its straight round.

[Grand Central]

I have already stated my position that I would stick to tape touching alone as the excludable offence.

 

But I was just wondering what people think has been the result of the 'warning system' as used in the GPs.

Has it produced any discernable improvement ?

 

My view is that it has made matters worse.

I have no stats available but my feeling is that there have been MORE starts called back since it has been introduced not less.

With all the resulttant delays being greater.

 

If this is true I ponder upon the reasons ...

 

It 'feels' as this is more often in the early heats of a GP not later (I have no proof).

Which makes one wonder if the warning gives cetain riders a 'psycological push' towards taking that gamble early on.

When they havefour more starts to come. The odds look good on taking the risk.

 

This has made several GPs very stop-start at the beginning and ruined the atmosphere leaving everyone cold and frustrated.

 

In addition, as warnings HAVE to be given to riders now by the refs they have a onus to stop every race wher it happens to issue the penalty.

EVEN when the offender messed up his own start and the ref could have 'played the advantage' of letting that race run.

And therby we have to suffer the extra delays.

 

Whatever, the whole thing of unsatisfactory starts being called back all the bloody time its getting right on my t!ts.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Grand Central

[enotian]

Time for annoying and time wasting re-runs caused by a rider jumping the start to be done away with.

Just let the race continue to the finish, and the offending rider gets excluded after the finish.

Spot on.

The psychology of retrospectively excluding riders will remove any benefits of trying to jump the start (which rider would want to do 4 laps then be excluded?) and mostly eradicate it. And even if it doesn't the supporters aren't subjected to multiple re-starts.

 

Additionally it will add controversy (which is a good thing in case you didn't realise) but the decision to exclude should be supported by technology to avoid subjectivity. Easily done (and I can't believe this isn't standard already) the referee's assistant/time keeper should film every start (and the whole race for that matter) on their smart phone. After the heat the ref reviews the start and excludes anyone who transgressed the rules, regardless of where they finished the race.

[OveFundinFan]

I have already stated my position that I would stick to tape touching alone as the excludable offence.

 

But I was just wondering what people think has been the result of the 'warning system' as used in the GPs.

Has it produced any discernable improvement ?

 

My view is that it has made matters worse.

I have no stats available but my feeling is that there have been MORE starts called back since it has been introduced not less.

With all the resulttant delays being greater.

 

If this is true I ponder upon the reasons ...

 

It 'feels' as this is more often in the early heats of a GP not later (I have no proof).

Which makes one wonder if the warning gives cetain riders a 'psycological push' towards taking that gamble early on.

When they havefour more starts to come. The odds look good on taking the risk.

 

This has made several GPs very stop-start at the beginning and ruined the atmosphere leaving everyone cold and frustrated.

 

In addition, as warnings HAVE to be given to riders now by the refs they have a onus to stop every race wher it happens to issue the penalty.

EVEN when the offender messed up his own start and the ref could have 'played the advantage' of letting that race run.

And therby we have to suffer the extra delays.

 

Whatever, the whole thing of unsatisfactory starts being called back all the bloody time its getting right on my t!ts.

Why does it seem to be in the early heats??

1) Tracks are not race tracks in early heats, more follow the leader, meaning rider needs to get into first corner in front to stand a chance of winning.

2) We all virtually agree this years series of GPs have been the toughest in recent years. The riders know that, so they need to get one over their competitor very early in the race ie the start

[Grand Central]

Why does it seem to be in the early heats??

1) Tracks are not race tracks in early heats, more follow the leader, meaning rider needs to get into first corner in front to stand a chance of winning.

2) We all virtually agree this years series of GPs have been the toughest in recent years. The riders know that, so they need to get one over their competitor very early in the race ie the start

 

Both good reasons for it.

 

The 'warning system' seems to have been ineffective in curtailing it.

Possibly having the reverse effect, it gives everyone a 'life' that they can afford to lose.

And the impact is to spoil the opening races of SGPs, just when you dont want it to happen.

And the atmosphere on TV and in the stadium is dampened considerably.

 

It has been a poor rule change.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Grand Central

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

Spot on.

The psychology of retrospectively excluding riders will remove any benefits of trying to jump the start (which rider would want to do 4 laps then be excluded?) and mostly eradicate it. And even if it doesn't the supporters aren't subjected to multiple re-starts.

 

Additionally it will add controversy (which is a good thing in case you didn't realise) but the decision to exclude should be supported by technology to avoid subjectivity. Easily done (and I can't believe this isn't standard already) the referee's assistant/time keeper should film every start (and the whole race for that matter) on their smart phone. After the heat the ref reviews the start and excludes anyone who transgressed the rules, regardless of where they finished the race.

Then sooner rather tgan later you will get this -

 

Rider 1 in gate 2 jumps and so gets out in front of Rider 2 off gate 1 (the ref will exclude Rider 1 at the end)

 

A - Rider 1 clamps Rider 2 on the kerb allowing his partner Rider 3 to run round the outside and win.

 

Or B - Rider 2 tries to pass Rider 1 and causes him to fall and is excluded. Is Rider 2 reinstated as Rider 1 should already have been excluded or do both exclusions stand?

 

Post race amendments would far worse than the current frustrations IMO.

[Hamish McRaker]

Then sooner rather tgan later you will get this -

Rider 1 in gate 2 jumps and so gets out in front of Rider 2 off gate 1 (the ref will exclude Rider 1 at the end)

A - Rider 1 clamps Rider 2 on the kerb allowing his partner Rider 3 to run round the outside and win.

Or B - Rider 2 tries to pass Rider 1 and causes him to fall and is excluded. Is Rider 2 reinstated as Rider 1 should already have been excluded or do both exclusions stand?

Post race amendments would far worse than the current frustrations IMO.

Scenario A. Referee awards race 1-5 to the disadvantaged team afterwards.

 

Scenario B. Rider 2 re-instated

Then sooner rather tgan later you will get this -

Rider 1 in gate 2 jumps and so gets out in front of Rider 2 off gate 1 (the ref will exclude Rider 1 at the end)

A - Rider 1 clamps Rider 2 on the kerb allowing his partner Rider 3 to run round the outside and win.

Or B - Rider 2 tries to pass Rider 1 and causes him to fall and is excluded. Is Rider 2 reinstated as Rider 1 should already have been excluded or do both exclusions stand?

 

If a post race amendment is made, stick the 2 minutes on soon after and shift the focus onto the next race!!

Post race amendments would far worse than the current frustrations IMO.

[OveFundinFan]

and do you think fans will be happy not knowing who has won a race/team points until the ref makes a decision. And judging by comments on BSF most refs dont make the correct decisions now never mind when all these scenarios have to be judged.

 

Nonsense, complete nonsense.