Somerset 2018

[DC2]

58 minutes ago, MattK said:

One big league would have to be at Championship level - so no GP riders for a start. There are also 17 Premiership riders with an average over 6 and no Championship average, so if you deduct those, you're down to 109.

In 2018 there will be 19 teams requiring 133 riders, so you're at least 24 riders short.

 

Why would you exclude any riders? They just have to have an average, even if it’s 13.5 for Doyle. And 126 2017 riders plus 19 new ones makes 145, more than the 133 needed for 19 teams. Plus there are plenty more foreign riders who would come over given the chance. 

[stevebrum]

1 hour ago, DC2 said:

 

Now we’ve established there are enough riders, equality of teams will come down to the right rules and points limits for team building.

We've established there isn't.  133 different riders needed for 19 teams.  You can't include riders who 'might' want to come as only a handful of new riders join our leagues year on year.  We've established there aren't enough quality riders to fill both leagues.

For the riders you have added as new subtract the riders who have retired as well. 

Edited January 25, 2018 by stevebrum
added information.

[stevebrum]

2 hours ago, DC2 said:

 126 different riders rode in the PL and the CL last year, so, yes, there are enough riders. 

Correct. 126 different riders rode in both leagues last year which required 133 to fill spaces. By any maths that proves there aren't enough riders to fill all team spaces. No different this season. 

[DC2]

49 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

Correct. 126 different riders rode in both leagues last year which required 133 to fill spaces. By any maths that proves there aren't enough riders to fill all team spaces. No different this season. 

 

I have referred to 145 riders above, so there are plenty. Teams would be Championship standard plus every team with a PL number one. Anyway, it’s a Somerset thread so I’ll leave it at that.

[stevebrum]

6 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

I have referred to 145 riders above, so there are plenty. Teams would be Championship standard plus every team with a PL number one. Anyway, it’s a Somerset thread so I’ll leave it at that.

There aren't 145 riders of the standard required.  Your own figures have proved there aren't enough anyway. 

[MattK]

2 hours ago, DC2 said:

 

Why would you exclude any riders? They just have to have an average, even if it’s 13.5 for Doyle. And 126 2017 riders plus 19 new ones makes 145, more than the 133 needed for 19 teams. Plus there are plenty more foreign riders who would come over given the chance. 

Put yourself in the shoes of a Championship team. Why would they join a league where they would have to compete against teams lining up with the likes of Doyle, Holder, Lindgren etc.? There is nothing in it for them. They already ride in a league with half the rider costs and almost identical admission fees.

The only way one big league would work is if you jettison the top 10% of riders and keep both strengths and costs down to Championship levels.

[Call me wolfie]

1 hour ago, DC2 said:

 

I have referred to 145 riders above, so there are plenty. Teams would be Championship standard plus every team with a PL number one. Anyway, it’s a Somerset thread so I’ll leave it at that.

You're completely missing the point Brum has made, there may have been 126 rider positions in the 2 leagues last year but how many of those were filled by double uppers? 5 in the Wolves team alone, subtract all those from the total and you are way short

[MattK]

29 minutes ago, Call me wolfie said:

You're completely missing the point Brum has made, there may have been 126 rider positions in the 2 leagues last year but how many of those were filled by double uppers? 5 in the Wolves team alone, subtract all those from the total and you are way short

There were 126 (I make it 129) unique riders in both leagues last season.

[DC2]

1 hour ago, Call me wolfie said:

You're completely missing the point Brum has made, there may have been 126 rider positions in the 2 leagues last year but how many of those were filled by double uppers? 5 in the Wolves team alone, subtract all those from the total and you are way short

 

None. I referred to different riders and did not count double uppers twice. There are plenty of riders.

[DC2]

2 hours ago, MattK said:

Put yourself in the shoes of a Championship team. Why would they join a league where they would have to compete against teams lining up with the likes of Doyle, Holder, Lindgren etc.? There is nothing in it for them. They already ride in a league with half the rider costs and almost identical admission fees.

The only way one big league would work is if you jettison the top 10% of riders and keep both strengths and costs down to Championship levels.

 

Newcastle had Robert Lambert and Berwick Nick Morris, number ones perfectly able to compete with teams headed by Brady Kurtz, Jacob Thorsell and Chris Harris. I doubt that one big league with the riders shared around would cost significantly more, but would hope that the expanded fixture list, the greater variety of opponents and the lack of double-uppers would reinvigorate UK speedway. That really is my last word. Sorry, Somerset.

[Call me wolfie]

26 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

None. I referred to different riders and did not count double uppers twice. There are plenty of riders.

That being the case, and i have neither the time or the inclination to check, that would suggest that an awful lot of rifers would have been dropped, and why?  The top level of speedway  in this country has been watered down enough already. I don't even see how you would fill enough number 1 spaces with a decent level of rider. Just because there are enough riders doesn't make them good enough to grace the same track as the likes of Doyle etc

Edited January 25, 2018 by Call me wolfie

[Catalan]

21 hours ago, rebelwonderkid said:

I thought Ez was the track man, have I missed something? 

Believe he has left 

[stevebrum]

2 hours ago, MattK said:

There were 126 (I make it 129) unique riders in both leagues last season.

Even if that was the case there were 133 team spots so still not enough.

1 hour ago, DC2 said:

 

None. I referred to different riders and did not count double uppers twice. There are plenty of riders.

If there were 126 different riders last year filling 133 team spots you have made it abundantly clear there are NOT enough riders. It's no good apologising to Somerset fans for labouring this point on 2 occasions. What you are claiming has been proven wrong. By your own argument!  There aren't enough riders to fill both leagues.  Time to move along then. 

[DC2]

7 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

Even if that was the case there were 133 team spots so still not enough.

If there were 126 different riders last year filling 133 team spots you have made it abundantly clear there are NOT enough riders. It's no good apologising to Somerset fans for labouring this point on 2 occasions. What you are claiming has been proven wrong. By your own argument!  There aren't enough riders to fill both leagues.  Time to move along then. 

 

For god’s sake, Steve, what’s wrong with you? 126 different riders last year, 13 new ones this year, 6 up and coming NL riders, makes 145, which covers the 133 needed. Plus plenty of foreigners who would come if asked.

[stevebrum]

41 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

For god’s sake, Steve, what’s wrong with you? 126 different riders last year, 13 new ones this year, 6 up and coming NL riders, makes 145, which covers the 133 needed. Plus plenty of foreigners who would come if asked.

Doesn't explain last season, which disproves your point. Likewise when you deduct the riders who have retired and not riding here from last season it's as you were.

Let's look at 2018. 48 riders currently named in the top flight with 8 spaces remaining 5 of which are likely to be stand alone riders so that takes it up to 53.

In the championship 49 riders currently named that aren't doubling up with 11 spots to fill. Let's assume none will be also doubling up. That will take the total to 60.

That's 113 riders to fill 133 team places. There aren't enough riders. 

Or do you simply not get it? ?

[Harry The Goat]

8 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Agree with that. Weekly speedway can be a chore whilst fortnightly on occasion makes it more of an event. Plus obviously Somerset have ensured they are running every week during the summer holidays to maximise potential crowds. To make this happen there had to be gaps open up somewhere else

Weekly speedway can be a chore? Really? Each to their own, I suppose. I personally would like the opportunity to attend far more home meetings. Back in the day it was regular for teams up and down the country to have a home meeting almost every single week of the year from mid-March to the end of October. Think about that. It's a total of around 36 home meetings year - versus about 15 (plus a few more assuming KOC/playoff success) at present. This is one of the massive differences between then and now.

[Najjer]

4 hours ago, DC2 said:

 

For god’s sake, Steve, what’s wrong with you? 126 different riders last year, 13 new ones this year, 6 up and coming NL riders, makes 145, which covers the 133 needed. Plus plenty of foreigners who would come if asked.

So a difference of 12 extra riders - less than 1 per team. Nowhere near enough to allow for injuries and poor form or team changes. Plus your 12 extra will be reduced by the loss of GP riders like Doyle, Iversen, Vaculik etc, and then Lindgren from last year too reducing that number by even more.

You say plenty of foreigners will come if asked but that hasn't been the case in the last few years.

This also doesn't allow for the actual averages being correct to allow for decent teams actually being assembled. Like I said, a league with about 12 teams could work much better and fill the fixture list abit more, whilst maintaining the current standard and having plenty of riders left to choose from in the top division. Begs the question though, why didn't teams like Ipswich, Glasgow, Sheffield etc want to take the plunge? 

[Najjer]

5 hours ago, sugarray said:

Believe he has left 

I've heard the same. A great shame as Ez 9 times out of 10 (and even that is potentially doing him a disservice) the track he served up was superb.

Lets just hope we don't end up with the ploughed field or motorcross style tracks we had when Ez last left.

[Catalan]

Tbh not sure he was fully committed last year 

[Ghosty]

15 hours ago, Najjer said:

I've heard the same. A great shame as Ez 9 times out of 10 (and even that is potentially doing him a disservice) the track he served up was superb.

Lets just hope we don't end up with the ploughed field or motorcross style tracks we had when Ez last left.

ALL PROMOTERS please take note.... a good track man has to have more knowledge then being able to drive a tractor!  Also with fixed race nights the right man (or woman) cannot be in 2 places on the same night!