semion Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Maybe Ged had little choice. Could it have been along on the lines of Holder the Younger saying to Ged, either let me go when they want me or I'll call it a day at Peterborough ? Ged then getting a reward from Torun for playing ball. The whole situation, to me, just shows where British Speedway stands. Nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wealdstone Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Maybe Ged had little choice. Could it have been along on the lines of Holder the Younger saying to Ged, either let me go when they want me or I'll call it a day at Peterborough ? Ged then getting a reward from Torun for playing ball. The whole situation, to me, just shows where British Speedway stands. Nowhere. I suspect you are right in your conjecture. In my view Ged will not or cannot pay the fine suggested to be in the region of £45000 and presumably will remain suspended until he does. He has also said that fans will not be asked for a hand out again. Unless the fine and suspension are rescinded or a credible buyer for the club found I fear Panthers are finished. Between them Rathbone, Holder, BSPA and SCB have made a right ruddy hames of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans fan Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Maybe Ged had little choice. Could it have been along on the lines of Holder the Younger saying to Ged, either let me go when they want me or I'll call it a day at Peterborough ? Ged then getting a reward from Torun for playing ball. The whole situation, to me, just shows where British Speedway stands. Nowhere. of course he had a choice , let holder go to torun and get guests (not n.l riders ) meaning holder would have had a 28day ban I suspect you are right in your conjecture. In my view Ged will not or cannot pay the fine suggested to be in the region of £45000 and presumably will remain suspended until he does. He has also said that fans will not be asked for a hand out again. Unless the fine and suspension are rescinded or a credible buyer for the club found I fear Panthers are finished. Between them Rathbone, Holder, BSPA and SCB have made a right ruddy hames of it. can't see what the bspa /scb have done wrong , the only 1 who has done wrong is ged to publicly state he's quite happy for holder to miss a bspa event and then furthermore miss various other matches is rubbing further salt in the wounds of speedway in this country 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wealdstone Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) Agree Ged in wrong but now another club likely to go to the wall.Should have thought of the future of Peterborough and Speedway in general when deliberating over the punishment. Edited October 6, 2017 by wealdstone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Agree Ged in wrong but now another club likely to go to the wall.Should have though of the future of Peterborough and Speedway in general when deliberating over the punishment.you cant work like that.If a promoter thinks he can get away with something or the punishment will be minimal because he cries 'it could close us down' then thats exactly what he will do. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 With the caveat that not all the facts are in the public domain, it appears to me that the principle of a fine is correct, but the quantum of the fine seems excessive given the number of instances of dubious actions by promoters that have previously gone unpunished (or where sanction has been nominal). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Maybe the fine is reflective of the rewards gained by the Peterborough Promotion. If you cant do the time, don't do the crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wealdstone Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 you cant work like that. If a promoter thinks he can get away with something or the punishment will be minimal because he cries 'it could close us down' then thats exactly what he will do. I agree with you in principle but I genuinely think that Ged is not personally in a financial position to pay the fine. So only option is to walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndbendbeerhut Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 I agree with you in principle but I genuinely think that Ged is not personally in a financial position to pay the fine. So only option is to walk away. Maybe the fine is the exact amount that Torun paid Ged? If so the money should still be in Ged possession as what's it been spent on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Blue Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Whoever is right or wrong, whatever the final outcome is, the one thing almost certainly guaranteed is: another group of speedway followers will be lost to the sport!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluTiger Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Maybe the fine is the exact amount that Torun paid Ged? If so the money should still be in Ged possession as what's it been spent on? Any financial payments paid by Torun are pure speculation i believe, i have seen nothing from any official sources to confirm any money changed hands. Mutual agreements are not always financial... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Any financial payments paid by Torun are pure speculation i believe, i have seen nothing from any official sources to confirm any money changed hands. Mutual agreements are not always financial...As is the level of the fine. If both are £45k as rumoured then both payment and fine are staggering IMO. I do believe Ged felt giving permission was the lesser of 2 evils. The possible inducement received muddied the waters. Ultimately Holder shouldve been told ride or be banned. Put the choice in his hands knowing he would be dropping Boro and Poole in it if he went to Poland. If he still went then so be it. You then deal with it as best you can. Its the same with any situation of coercion or blackmail - once you give in the first time they have you and you are in someway complicit going forward. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argos Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 I think you will find that a very high proportion of the Fine will be suspended for a period of time subject to future conduct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndbendbeerhut Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 So it has been "speculated" that Ged received "thousands" as a sweetener. Holder Jr was on £600 a point What we do know is Poole were still able to use Holder in their meetings So was beneficial to all of them... However the fans lost out on seeing a full strength team and may now lose out by not having a team to support. What else could the Bspa / SCB do? Sweep of under the carpet like everything else? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 As is the level of the fine. If both are £45k as rumoured then both payment and fine are staggering IMO. I do believe Ged felt giving permission was the lesser of 2 evils. The possible inducement received muddied the waters. Ultimately Holder shouldve been told ride or be banned. Put the choice in his hands knowing he would be dropping Boro and Poole in it if he went to Poland. If he still went then so be it. You then deal with it as best you can. Its the same with any situation of coercion or blackmail - once you give in the first time they have you and you are in someway complicit going forward. Holder should not have been given permission by Rathbone,and the decision should have been left to Holder.Rathbone has himself to blame there is no loyalty from riders just greed.If Holder is a good as he thinks he is he would be full time in Poland next year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New era Panthers Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) Any financial payments paid by Torun are pure speculation i believe, i have seen nothing from any official sources to confirm any money changed hands. Mutual agreements are not always financial... Whilst all this has been going on the BSPA and the SCB have NOT issued any statement publicly whatsoever on the subject , haven't they got the balls or are they just trying to cover up what has happened regarding the charge and the punishment involved .IMO the least they should be doing is informing the paying public just what they have concluded , instead they would rather leave everything open to hearsay and gossip) not in my back yard syndrome , commonly known as ( NIMBYS ). I could certainly find a better name for them . Edited October 6, 2017 by New era Panthers 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crump99 Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) So it has been "speculated" that Ged received "thousands" as a sweetener. Holder Jr was on £600 a point What we do know is Poole were still able to use Holder in their meetings So was beneficial to all of them... However the fans lost out on seeing a full strength team and may now lose out by not having a team to support. What else could the Bspa / SCB do? Sweep of under the carpet like everything else? Stop people speculating and put some meat on the bones. All hell breaks loose at the EoES and what do we get from both organisations (having checked both their websites)? Naff all! The best they do is in Friday's preview: "Meanwhile Peterborough host Workington at the East of England Arena as both clubs move towards the end of their regular SGB Championship schedule. The hosts are at full strength with Tom Bacon declared fit after a spill in the win at Derwent Park last weekend, whilst Tom Woolley again steps in at reserve for the Comets, who operate rider-replacement for Thomas Jorgensen. Peterborough owner Ged Rathbone said: “Tonight is all about racing and keeping our winning run going. Everyone is determined to put on a show at one of the finest tracks in the country and remind us all why we love this sport. “Hopefully the supporters will stay behind us by turning out in big numbers.” Unless you knew what was going on, you'd think that of course it's all about racing and why the hell do the supporters need to stay behind you any more than normal? edit: True NEP, I got a phone call and you got there 1st. Edited October 6, 2017 by Crump99 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 As is the level of the fine. If both are £45k as rumoured then both payment and fine are staggering IMO. I do believe Ged felt giving permission was the lesser of 2 evils. The possible inducement received muddied the waters. Ultimately Holder shouldve been told ride or be banned. Put the choice in his hands knowing he would be dropping Boro and Poole in it if he went to Poland. If he still went then so be it. You then deal with it as best you can. Its the same with any situation of coercion or blackmail - once you give in the first time they have you and you are in someway complicit going forward. This is the first post that mentions Poole since the announcement yesterday as a ban for Holder would have affected them also. Has it taken that long to sort this mess out? No, there has been an inquiry where they have been evaluating the facts. There has been posts of other clubs possibly losing income(Scunthorpe & Newcastle) being the two teams that were first mentioned, when the 4's took place, but judging by the outcry on the forum on the relevant posts on this topic, more fans from other clubs have voted with there feet & stayed away. The Jake Knight suspension(wrongly in my view) was handled almost straight away as it was in the Regulations of the outcome. What, if anything, will happen to our Team GB riders, Cook & Lambert over their misdemeanours. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crump99 Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 This is the first post that mentions Poole since the announcement yesterday as a ban for Holder would have affected them also. Has it taken that long to sort this mess out? No, there has been an inquiry where they have been evaluating the facts. There has been posts of other clubs possibly losing income(Scunthorpe & Newcastle) being the two teams that were first mentioned, when the 4's took place, but judging by the outcry on the forum on the relevant posts on this topic, more fans from other clubs have voted with there feet & stayed away. The Jake Knight suspension(wrongly in my view) was handled almost straight away as it was in the Regulations of the outcome. What, if anything, will happen to our Team GB riders, Cook & Lambert over their misdemeanours. It has been suggested plenty of times since August that Poole was a factor but it has never been mentioned as such anywhere. This is as close as we got for the conspiracy theorists: "If the rider had gone to Poland and raced without the permission of his club he would have been banned for withholding his services for 28 days - this is not the case with Jack Holder as his club have given him their blessing and we have evidence of the true reason." It's easy enough to come to that conclusion but I don't think the evidence is in the public domain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluTiger Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 As is the level of the fine. If both are £45k as rumoured then both payment and fine are staggering IMO. I do believe Ged felt giving permission was the lesser of 2 evils. The possible inducement received muddied the waters. Ultimately Holder shouldve been told ride or be banned. Put the choice in his hands knowing he would be dropping Boro and Poole in it if he went to Poland. If he still went then so be it. You then deal with it as best you can. Its the same with any situation of coercion or blackmail - once you give in the first time they have you and you are in someway complicit going forward. Totally agree, i'm not defending how Ged handled the situation. As Cump99 said, without evidence of the 'mutual agreement' we are all in the dark concerning any possible financial sweetener, if indeed that is the case. No one is coming out of this with any credit, as usual in speedway its cloak and dagger secrecy and two fingers to the supporters. Transparency my ar## ..... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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