Peterborough Panthers 2018

[Daytripper]

2 hours ago, bigcatdiary said:

, And he were in March and the 2018 regulations are still not published. 

 

My understanding is that the new Regulations were due to be published last week but they got themselves into some other tangle which now has to be sorted out.

The Aide Memoires to the Clerks of the Course and Machine examiners are now online but the Regulations aren't . Draw your own conclusions.

[Noodles]

5 hours ago, Tsunami said:

Lots of points there Chris, some of which I will challenge. Others I will either PM you or discuss them when we next meet.

 

The ruling might have been passed at the AGM but would have been known weeks before at the PreAGM meeting, so the decision could have been pre-empted. 

The decision would have been made with the best intentions of clarifying who could drop down, but unfortunately for Kennett and Nicholls they had no Championship average to fall back on, like say Harris. Presumably the ruling was for genuine stabilisation between the two leagues and that was the AGM decision. That's the way an organisation operates cos it is the ruling body for the sport. To say a member in a 'closed shop' can't challenge things is rather ignoring reality. All matters are discussed, voted for and a decision arrived at, and in many cases by a majority vote as few things are unanimous. That's how all committees generally operate. The difference in this case is the legality of that decision. The BSPA, obviously having made the decision, thought it was legal and enforceable, and therefore would have tried to uphold it. When faced by objections from the SCB and a legal challenge, they had no alternative to overturn their own decision. That is not as you say "incompetence, viciousness or both" unless  you are preprogrammed to the mantra that the organisation "deserves at least some of the odium and criticism it gets".

I have no information to what you allude to with the IOW matters, but I would have thought that generally within the BSPA ranks and other fans that Barry and Martin, their efforts have been applauded and are in the vest interest of the continuance of our sport. The fact that Barry has just won an award  just recently would suggest your 'jealousy' tag may be a bit offline.

You say Ged was 'fined heavily'.  Hmmm. Yes he was by the BSPA to the tune of £28K, which coincided with the amount of what he received by breaking rules of the organisation, which he signed before the season started as agreeing to uphold the rules of he organisation.  Everyone seemed to think that was rather relevant and justified. In the subsequent review by the SCB, that fine was cancelled and replaced to about £1k and scrubbed the free meeting I believe. Who thinks that the SCB decision was better or more appropriate than the original one from the BSPA. I think the BSPA got it spot on and I am disappointed in the level of the SCB revised fine. So we have rules that get broken and Ged makes a profit of about £26k is a punishment ?   Not right.

Rob, who you have championed before for his style and achievements with the Scunny track, was stupid to do what he did. No argument with that. It is not unprecedented but cannot be accepted under any circumstances. There has to have been some review of his actions and maybe his warning or punishment has not been published, I don't know. But what I do now is that that meeting was under the control of the referee acting for the SCB, and it is them not the BSPA  to take any appropriate action. if you accept the SCB acted according regarding the reversing of an illegal decision with the over 6 rule, I would hope you will also hold a similar view regarding the view that the SCB with Rob's actions. 

As I said earlier, there are things I can't put on here as you will understand. Will be in touch.

 

Maybe Chapman shouldn't have opened his fat gob before the hearing then. 

[Tsunami]

5 hours ago, bigcatdiary said:

 

2. You and me both know from experience that challenging the MC or the BSPA gets you nothing but aggravation as the promoters who do so know from bitter experience. They don’t follow precedence and make decisions on the basis of who is asking rather than general common sense or fairness to everyone. The fact that Ged Rathbone made some serious money from the Holder deal is what sticks in the BSPA throat, that and the fact he picked up two trophies didn’t help either.

 

3. It’s clear that the governing body for Speedway in the UK (the ACU) don’t hold either the BSPA or the SCB in a good light and after all the problems of 2017 and recent events it’s no real surprise is it.

 

2 The fact that Ged made some serious money from the Holder deal also sticks in my throat. You should not be allowed to gain from breaking the agreed rules of the BSPA, and the SCB did speedway no favours by setting a bad precedent. Look forward to chances where promotions can break a rule, and pocket good money, and everyone condemns on here the practice and blames the BSPA.(Only in speedway) The fact that Peterborough picked up two trophies isn't relevant. They were won on the track, fact.

3 For a long time now, there has been an outpouring for an Independant person, or team, to oversee the running of Speedway. Barry Hearn, Richard Branson, etc, were mentioned and others tried to explain how such independance could operate and how could be funded. All attempts failed and there didn't seem to be an alternative. Recent events involving Neil Vatcher and the SCB, have showed that they can provide an independence that people want in the sport and I welcome their new interference. I have said it before somewhere on here, that they could be what we are looking for, and recent decisions, whilst not agreeing with the big one(Holdergate fine), at least shows that the BSPA have now to become more accountable and I agree that that is and can be a good thing. The visa situation now seems under control, BSPA realise they are being overseen, so we might see a transparency that everyone wants.

[jenga]

the reason why we are getting all this snow is because ged marrowbone is sitting down and thats where the sunshines from ! 

[Crump99]

3 hours ago, jenga said:

the reason why we are getting all this snow is because ged marrowbone is sitting down and thats where the sunshines from ! 

Another rib gone. I'm down to my last one!

[Halifaxtiger]

13 hours ago, Tsunami said:

 The fact that Ged made some serious money from the Holder deal also sticks in my throat. You should not be allowed to gain from breaking the agreed rules of the BSPA, and the SCB did speedway no favours by setting a bad precedent. Look forward to chances where promotions can break a rule, and pocket good money, and everyone condemns on here the practice and blames the BSPA.(Only in speedway) The fact that Peterborough picked up two trophies isn't relevant. They were won on the track, fact.

3 For a long time now, there has been an outpouring for an Independant person, or team, to oversee the running of Speedway. Barry Hearn, Richard Branson, etc, were mentioned and others tried to explain how such independance could operate and how could be funded. All attempts failed and there didn't seem to be an alternative. Recent events involving Neil Vatcher and the SCB, have showed that they can provide an independence that people want in the sport and I welcome their new interference. I have said it before somewhere on here, that they could be what we are looking for, and recent decisions, whilst not agreeing with the big one(Holdergate fine), at least shows that the BSPA have now to become more accountable and I agree that that is and can be a good thing. The visa situation now seems under control, BSPA realise they are being overseen, so we might see a transparency that everyone wants.

I too welcome the SCB's intervention in the Nicholls case but I'll await the transparency that you suggest because I am not convinced.

E I Addio has pointed out that the AGM finished in mid November and the SCB resolved the matter at the end of February - after a challenge by Peterborough, a review by the BSPA and a threat of legal action from Nicholls. His description of the SCB's actions in this matter was 'appalling incompetence'.

It could easily be seen  as though they took no steps to correct the situation until Nicholls legal challenge, at which point they had no choice but to change the decision.

The other thing is is that this is a major issue, one that affects all clubs. It is equally as important that disputes on single decisions affecting just one club are dealt with - as BCD has said - fairly, openly and subject to precedent. 

I have it on good authority that when Adam Roynon signed for Plymouth last season three NL clubs protested, saying that the average they were using was incorrect. Those protests were brushed aside, despite the fact that the average was indeed substantially understated (something that was later admitted, although not publicly).

Matt  Marson has a  British passport (I stand to be corrected, but I believe his mother is British). As a British citizen and a newcomer to the sport in this country, Mildenhall put him in their team last season on a 3.00 in accordance with the SCB rulebook. Suddenly, he was graded as a 5.00, an average that doesn't even exist in that rule book. My understanding is that it took a further threat of legal action to make the BSPA adhere to their own regulations.

On those (and so many other occasions) speedway fans - and even clubs - did not know who made the decision, how they made it and why they made it. That simply cannot be right, nor can it be the case that the sports own regulations are so easily broken to suit the needs of individual promoters.

I have never believed that the running of speedway teams should be subject to independent control. Speedway teams are mostly loss making, so it is a case that he who calls the piper calls the tune and that initial decision making must be left to those that put their hands in the pockets every week. However, any protest must be determined by an impartial adjudicator with no interest in any speedway club. It is at that stage that currently the sport disastrously falls down and, quite clearly, if you know that any decision you make could well be subject to independent audit, you're more likely to get it right in the first place.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Halifaxtiger

[Daniel Smith]

Just had a thought and it may have already been said.

Has the precedent now been set that even Woffinden could ride in the Championship if he so wished.

If he was refused it would be a clear breach and restraint of trade in his home country.

[Panthers89]

2 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

Just had a thought and it may have already been said.

Has the precedent now been set that even Woffinden could ride in the Championship if he so wished.

If he was refused it would be a clear breach and restraint of trade in his home country.

Guess so, but don’t believe GP riders can ride in the second division 

[ruffdiamond]

9 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

Just had a thought and it may have already been said.

Has the precedent now been set that even Woffinden could ride in the Championship if he so wished.

If he was refused it would be a clear breach and restraint of trade in his home country.

I would say so,,, and available on a round about 10.00 ave.

[Daniel Smith]

1 minute ago, Panthers89 said:

Guess so, but don’t believe GP riders can ride in the second division 

Those restrictions are also illegal to working law.

In all sports all sportsmen are allowed to compete at any level they so wish. 

In football everyone can play in any league they wish.

Athletes can compete at club level.

Darts players can still play pub leagues

Cricketers are free to play village leagues

Blah blah blah

Yet with Speedway Woffinden can't compete in the Championship because he's a GP rider. A clear breach.

Theoretically he may one day decide to drop Poland and wants to ride Championship Speedway and not Premiership because his best mate is at a particular team, or he wants to be closer to his new family. 

Who are the BSPA to tell him he can't earn money at that level.

[Alan_Jones]

1 hour ago, Panthers89 said:

Guess so, but don’t believe GP riders can ride in the second division 

They can.

[jenga]

only if they qualified for the GPs when they were riding for a championship side and  were returning to that championship side to ride the following season . ala carl stonehewer .

so no wuff in the proper league !

[Fromafar]

3 hours ago, Panthers89 said:

Guess so, but don’t believe GP riders can ride in the second division 

Does that mean that Cook could not have ridden in 2nd div this season if he had wanted too.I thought it was his choice .

[comet49]

Yeh Cook could cos he qualified while riding for the Comets

[Daniel Smith]

I don't think people are grasping the significance of the Nicholls/Kennett case and the danger it faces.

It's hypothetical but if Woffinden wished to ride Championship Speedway he would have to be allowed by law.

It most certainly would be challenged also by the fact that he's been refused work over a rider requiring a work permit. 

 

[jenga]

if this keeps going on , you could argue over any rule/reg that the two muppet crews have thought up .

me personally , i think scott will be okay, but not outstanding . rules are meant to be challenged and in scotts desperation he choose to seek advice and won .

i think it was pure desperation (money) on scotts behalf to want to join the championship for the 2018 season .

but he now has to show the fans what he has got left , if anything .

no hass from panthers fans please . its my take on things of wich i am entitled to post . thank you  enga wid a J

[geoff100]

All.sports have to have rules to adhere to , pboro knew the rules for this season and should have stuck to them i dont see it as restraint of trade if your sport says u  are to good for a league accept the rules or play elsewhere .

[Alan_Jones]

3 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

I don't think people are grasping the significance of the Nicholls/Kennett case and the danger it faces.

It's hypothetical but if Woffinden wished to ride Championship Speedway he would have to be allowed by law.

It most certainly would be challenged also by the fact that he's been refused work over a rider requiring a work permit. 

 

The law wouldn't come into it. There hasn't been a restriction on GP riders in the 2nd division since 2013. The only thing that would have had an effect was the "current CL average" restriction which has now been quashed.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

36 minutes ago, geoff100 said:

All.sports have to have rules to adhere to , pboro knew the rules for this season and should have stuck to them i dont see it as restraint of trade if your sport says u  are to good for a league accept the rules or play elsewhere .

Thats exactly why it was seen as a restraint - if Scott is too good then fair enough but others with higher averages (also too good) are allowed so......

[Daniel Smith]

24 minutes ago, geoff100 said:

All.sports have to have rules to adhere to , pboro knew the rules for this season and should have stuck to them i dont see it as restraint of trade if your sport says u  are to good for a league accept the rules or play elsewhere .

Rubbish

Phil Taylor (recently retired I know) is to good for BDO, County, Pub darts but can play all if he wishes.

Wayne Rooney would be to good for None League, Amateur, Grassroots football but could play if he wishes.

British Speedway have opened themselves up by allowing doubling up between 2 'Professional Leagues'. Doing so should allow all riders in the Premiership to race Championship Speedway. Even those with averages of over 12.

If a Championship side was to offer Woffinden a contract the BSPA would find it difficult legally to block the move regardless of rules they try to put in place.