4thbender Posted October 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 No way doubling up can be scaled back, not enough riders about. So the top 2 divisions must ride on separate nights. Fixture coordinator that has total power to tell teams it's better to ride with one rider missing in June/July, than have hardly any fans watching a pointless meeting on a cold wet October night. No more of this 3 choices nonsense, this is when you riding, get over it!!!! Most other things I want cost money, so pointless typing those, if the BSPA wouldn't spend a penny on the future of the sport when Sky were giving them a wedge, no way they can spend any now. How about a single "British League" of 18 teams plus existing National League. BL Teams have 6 riders racing over 13 heats (4 rides each plus a heat 13 of top two nominated riders). Each BL team to maintain a 'B' team of 4 junior riders (including the BL no. 7) who will stage a 4-heat mini-match after heat 9 of the main BL match. According to my reckoning, there were 199 riders registered in 2017. If British League consisted of 18 teams of 6 riders, at least one of which had to be a National League double-upper, we'd have enough to go round without losing out on race quality. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieIpswich Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Not enough riders for one big league, not sure there is enough for 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 If a rider falls and it is evident that he seen where his team partner is in the race and as a result deliberately stays down to give his partner a second chance (assumes partner is in 2nd or 3rd) then the faller should be excluded and the partner penalised by having to go off 15mtrs in the restart. Last night at Swindon was an example of this tactic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieIpswich Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 Yeah that's a good one or said rider is fined and excluded from his next ride or goes off 15 meters himself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GS550 Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 No way doubling up can be scaled back, not enough riders about. Don't agree with that at all. It was put there, it can be removed. Not enough riders - false. I don't have enough money for a Lamborghini but I've just about enough for a secondhand Mondeo. We will just have to cut our cloth to suit and if it means 6 man teams or 5 man teams then so be it. I want to see riders riding for one team, the shambles that has been the 2017 season has had much to do with doubling up/down combined with injuries and not being allowed to sign replacements so fixtures full of R/R and Guests. Trying to explain this to non-speedway friends and colleagues and they shake their head in astonishment at how badly run it all seems. From my point of view there's no point in continuing with doubling up/down cos I won't attend such a shambles, its the main reason why I've lost interest and reduced attendance. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner47 Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 Don't agree with that at all. It was put there, it can be removed. Not enough riders - false. I don't have enough money for a Lamborghini but I've just about enough for a secondhand Mondeo. We will just have to cut our cloth to suit and if it means 6 man teams or 5 man teams then so be it. I want to see riders riding for one team, the shambles that has been the 2017 season has had much to do with doubling up/down combined with injuries and not being allowed to sign replacements so fixtures full of R/R and Guests. Trying to explain this to non-speedway friends and colleagues and they shake their head in astonishment at how badly run it all seems. From my point of view there's no point in continuing with doubling up/down cos I won't attend such a shambles, its the main reason why I've lost interest and reduced attendance. Doubling up/down is here to stay. The riders want it, and the promoters want it. If you get rid of it, the riders will want more money that the promoters can't afford. None of us like it, but fans would hate 5 man teams too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GS550 Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 (edited) According to my reckoning, there were 199 riders registered in 2017. If British League consisted of 18 teams of 6 riders, at least one of which had to be a National League double-upper, we'd have enough to go round without losing out on race quality. Agree with that. Doubling up/down is here to stay. The riders want it, and the promoters want it. If you get rid of it, the riders will want more money that the promoters can't afford. None of us like it, but fans would hate 5 man teams too. I disagree. It was put there, it can be removed. You say "none of us like it" - which means a significant number of people will reduce their attendance and it won't pay so it won't be sustainable and it won't survive. Edited October 3, 2017 by justere2cgoodspeedway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 (edited) If , what is being suggested , the Championship runs Friday , Saturday , Sunday , make the Cardiff weekend a festival of speedway . Have the Championship Pairs at Somerset on the Friday , the GP Saturday and back to Somerset on the Sunday for the Championship Fours . That would free up a weekend lost . Or maybe Swindon for the SGB Championship Fours on the Sunday. Not too far up the road. EDIT: Although ideally, I'd like the Fours WEEKEND back at Peterborough. That was a lot of fun last year. And we'd convinced a lot more people to come along this year, only for them not to do it. All the best Rob Edited October 3, 2017 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thbender Posted October 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 Don't agree with that at all. It was put there, it can be removed. Not enough riders - false. I don't have enough money for a Lamborghini but I've just about enough for a secondhand Mondeo. We will just have to cut our cloth to suit and if it means 6 man teams or 5 man teams then so be it. I want to see riders riding for one team, the shambles that has been the 2017 season has had much to do with doubling up/down combined with injuries and not being allowed to sign replacements so fixtures full of R/R and Guests. Trying to explain this to non-speedway friends and colleagues and they shake their head in astonishment at how badly run it all seems. From my point of view there's no point in continuing with doubling up/down cos I won't attend such a shambles, its the main reason why I've lost interest and reduced attendance. Agree fully. Doubling up/down is here to stay. The riders want it, and the promoters want it. If you get rid of it, the riders will want more money that the promoters can't afford. None of us like it, but fans would hate 5 man teams too. The riders only want doubling-up because it means they can ride in more matches, hence earn more money. If there was a single league of 18 teams, 34 league matches a season, plus cups and one-offs would provide sufficient earnings-potential for riders. As for promoters, I don't think they ever wanted it, but were forced into introducing it by prevailing circumstances. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 Agree fully. The riders only want doubling-up because it means they can ride in more matches, hence earn more money. If there was a single league of 18 teams, 34 league matches a season, plus cups and one-offs would provide sufficient earnings-potential for riders. As for promoters, I don't think they ever wanted it, but were forced into introducing it by prevailing circumstances. Doubling us was originally brought in to allow young Brits to sample the higher level of racing, whilst staying in this country rather than have the expense of doing it abroad. It was meant to only bring on British riders. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippy22 Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 Doubling up/down is here to stay. The riders want it, and the promoters want it. If you get rid of it, the riders will want more money that the promoters can't afford. None of us like it, but fans would hate 5 man teams too. If riders reckon they cannot earn enough just riding for 1 team, how did riders like Scott Nicholls, Edward Kennett, Kevin Doolan, Aaron Summers, Tyrone Proctor etc, survive riding for 1 team only ? If doubling up is to continue, then it should be restricted to riders who only race in the UK. Anyone riding for any other team overseas, should only be allowed to ride for 1 team in the UK. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner47 Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 Some valid points. But promoters want cheap, but everyone in the sport knows something has got to change. The reason why fans hate doubling up is when they lose one of their riders to another side, this will stop when the leagues ride on different nights. So can we just accept it's here to stay, but it won't be a problem anymore as my club won't lose a rider, and nor will yours. The problems will only arise if the clubs can't decide on what nights to use for each division, I can see some fun and games on that score. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 Some valid points. But promoters want cheap, but everyone in the sport knows something has got to change. The reason why fans hate doubling up is when they lose one of their riders to another side, this will stop when the leagues ride on different nights. So can we just accept it's here to stay, but it won't be a problem anymore as my club won't lose a rider, and nor will yours. The problems will only arise if the clubs can't decide on what nights to use for each division, I can see some fun and games on that score. Fixed nights would solve the problem. But it does mean that some tracks would have to run on less attractive nights to the fans who historically have a favoured night usually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieIpswich Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 I think also fixed nights will open up more opportunity for riders from Denmark and Sweden etc. So in theory they could under new rules only allow Brits to double up But if they are smart? If team building in an expanded national league was limited points wise then it would wipe out most Brits apart from young riders or those lower end riders Some riders make do with having one club, the sport can't owe all the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GS550 Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 Some valid points. But promoters want cheap, but everyone in the sport knows something has got to change. The reason why fans hate doubling up is when they lose one of their riders to another side, this will stop when the leagues ride on different nights. So can we just accept it's here to stay, but it won't be a problem anymore as my club won't lose a rider, and nor will yours. The problems will only arise if the clubs can't decide on what nights to use for each division, I can see some fun and games on that score. More to it than that. Do you think it suited Glasgow to be dictated to by being deprived of Bewley when either the rider himself or his top tier parent club decided they would rather he didn't ride for Glasgow yet he could ride for BV just the night before. That scenario wouldn't be the case if it weren't for doubling up/down. This factor wouldn't necessarily be eradicated by riding different nights as the case in point with Bewley. This as well as injuries and not being allowed to sign replacements created far too many instances of R/R and Guests this season and it just seems a complete shambles with many becoming fed up with the sport and reducing their attendance. When there were 10 or 12 teams in the top tier and 19 or 20 in the second there was no doubling up/down and there were enough riders to go round. Time they relaxed the work permit rules for Aussies and also brought on far more young home grown riders into the sport and really developed it from the ground up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner47 Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 I'm not pedantic enough to pick a handful of riders and the odd isolated incident like Bewley. Please accept doubling up is here to stay like the rest of us have, albeit reluctantly. As Tsunami says, the fun will begin when teams have to change race nights, but for the future of the sport they'll have two choices, change division or change race night. I rarely go on the 1st division section (too many idiots and trolls for my liking), but if the 1st Division does go Monday / Thursday, then will Somerset, Leicester, Poole and Belle Vue be happy? I doubt Rye will care, they hardly ever rode on a Saturday anyway. The sooner we know what's going on, the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GS550 Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 (edited) I'm not pedantic enough to pick a handful of riders and the odd isolated incident like Bewley. Please accept doubling up is here to stay Pedantic? The point about Bewley was and is a valid point. You say that I have to accept your point of view - I don't. Some things are inevitable and must happen - night follows day, the sky is usually above us the ground below us. But doubling up/down is not in that category. Edited October 5, 2017 by justere2cgoodspeedway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner47 Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 Forgive me, I thought this was a thread in the 2nd Division section, you're obviously a 1st division supporter and like an argument, us 2nd Division supporters accept others can have an opinion and move on. Goodbye. I won't be looking at this thread again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GS550 Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 (edited) Forgive me, I thought this was a thread in the 2nd Division section, you're obviously a 1st division supporter and like an argument, us 2nd Division supporters accept others can have an opinion and move on. Goodbye. I won't be looking at this thread again. Maybe better to "attack the post not the poster" as the saying goes. I made a valid point, namely regarding Bewley, tbh I only expected a reasoned point in reply. So the shoe appears to be on the other foot? You close by saying "Goodbye. I won't be looking at this thread again". Well that's entirely up to you. Enjoy your speedway. Edited October 5, 2017 by justere2cgoodspeedway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieIpswich Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 It's far too easy to say relax work permits or bring in more riders etc pretty sure we'd all like another 50 young kids on a production line but more needs to be done to develope them in the first place but if bspa act now they could have a good 20-30+ new riders in the sport within 5 years 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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