Aces51 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 I agree, I'm not suggesting for one moment it should be allowed.. however, I'd say it has a lot more credibility than running a Grand Final with a guest. I can't see how it would be 'devalued' in any way at all though. A rider has been replaced with a weaker one, from the same club basically. It makes a hell of a lot more sense from a credibility point of view. As you correctly say, those are the rules though. It's devalued because the rules don't allow it. It would be yet another example to support those who say that it is a mickey mouse sport. Whether it is a sensible change to make for the future is a matter for debate. As for tonight's meeting I don't think Wolves have been weakened as much as some say. Lindgren, by his standards, does not do well at Swindon. This year he effectively scored 8 from 5 and 10 from 5 rides and Harris is capable of a similar score. R/r for Thorssell is unlikely to replicate his score, 9 and 12, both from 5 rides. So weaker but not necessarily the walk over some are predicting. It is an entirely different situation at Monmore where Lindgren and Thorssell can be brilliant and often are. Even with their home advantage I can see Swindon keeping it very close there or even winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidder1 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) Lets not forget Poole used an asset rather than a guest in last year's play-offs and we all know how that went!! lol Anyway moving on - I'm now supporting Swindon in the final as I said I would when (not if) they beat Poole, but a serious question - Does the 8 day guest rule not apply to reserves eg Liam Carr? Edited October 2, 2017 by Skidder1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) We can only hope to keep it respectable to give us a modicum of a chance. As slim as they may be. Instinct says 55-35 Edited scoreline for accuracy. Edited October 2, 2017 by stevebrum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) Lets not forget Poole used an asset rather than a guest in last year's play-offs and we all know how that went!! lol Anyway moving on - I'm now supporting Swindon in the final as I said I would when (not if) they beat Poole, but a serious question - Does the 8 day guest rule not apply to reserves eg Liam Carr? Does it not count for reserves, the only limit was the number of times the same reserve could be used. I think this used to be the case but as the rules change every year who knows. Edited October 2, 2017 by A ORLOV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Lets not forget Poole used an asset rather than a guest in last year's play-offs and we all know how that went!! lol Anyway moving on - I'm now supporting Swindon in the final as I said I would when (not if) they beat Poole, but a serious question - Does the 8 day guest rule not apply to reserves eg Liam Carr? 18.12.2 A rider may ride as a Guest (in an Official Meeting) at a Track only once in an 8-day period unless he is replacing the Home Teams #1 or is a NDL rider guesting for the Home Team. So OK 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanhoe Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 The only hope Wolves have is an unpalatable one, in that a withdrawal from the meeting by a Swindon rider, which would almost certainly mean an injury, affects the score. A fully fit Swindon team completing both meetings should comfortably win it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazza Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 This is obviously completely hypothetical as it hasn't and won't happen, but... How would Swindon fans have felt if Wolverhampton had been 'special dispensation' to track Tai Woffinden in place of Lindgren in a circumstance such as this? Normally I would be against such a thing and I have no qualms at all about Wolves using a guest and R/R as those are the rules, but would it have made the Grand Final more of an event if a team could have used one of it's own assets rather than a guest? Personally as a Swindon fan I would have preferred Wolves using as asset rather than a guest, the only problem is if it was Doyle who was injured for the final I'm not sure if we have an asset near to the standard of him? Would certainly have made the Grand Final more of an event in my opinion using Woffinden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) This is obviously completely hypothetical as it hasn't and won't happen, but... How would Swindon fans have felt if Wolverhampton had been 'special dispensation' to track Tai Woffinden in place of Lindgren in a circumstance such as this? Normally I would be against such a thing and I have no qualms at all about Wolves using a guest and R/R as those are the rules, but would it have made the Grand Final more of an event if a team could have used one of it's own assets rather than a guest? I suggested this myself earlier. I think they should be given special dispensation to sign him rather than have him as a guest. Sadly, they seem to see guests as the option for everything these days. Edited October 2, 2017 by grachan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidder1 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 I'm close to losing the will to live as far as going throughthe rules again!! 18.12.2 A rider may ride as a Guest (in an Official Meeting) at a Track only once in an 8-day period unless he is replacing the Home Teams #1 or is a NDL rider guesting for the Home Team. So OK Cheers for that arnieg I confess I'm close to losing the will to live as far as checking the rules again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Personally as a Swindon fan I would have preferred Wolves using as asset rather than a guest, the only problem is if it was Doyle who was injured for the final I'm not sure if we have an asset near to the standard of him? Would certainly have made the Grand Final more of an event in my opinion using Woffinden. There's the issue, I guess. Could Swindon then sign Dudek, for example, to replace Doyle in the second leg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 There's the issue, I guess. Could Swindon then sign Dudek, for example, to replace Doyle in the second leg? Some form of squad system would solve it. Easier said than done though of course. All these people who rave on about the Play-offs , will no doubt be having second thoughts now. I always said, having the league title decided by a H&A tie is never a good way of deciding the whole season of racing. As much as hate riders getting injured, it is always possible that title will be decided by a situation such as this. My heartfelt feelings go out to Freddie and Jacob for their injuries they have suffered, but in all honesty there is only one team who deserve to win the title this year. Winning 17 matches on the spin deserves that recognition. Surely it would be possible to retain the play-offs, but instead of only a 4 team knock-out tournament to determine the winners, why not add those extra points on to whose already amassed throughout the season, giving us the excitement of the PO but also the true winners every time. Then injuries at crucial times wouldn't be as damning and unfair, as they seem at the moment.... No second thoughts at all. In other seasons your comments may make sense, however not in this one when there was so little between the two sides anyway. Swindon finished pts ahead, but the reality of it is, the difference was 1 race pt. Swindon won 46-45 (I think that was the score) at home to Wolves, a 1pt swing the other way and Wolves are top. To be fair, Swindon had a weakened team that night. Wolves surprise loss at home to Poole the night Kyle Howarth was injured as another factor and I'm sure Swindon can point to some matches too. Both sides also had varying degrees of luck when coming up against sides who were hit by injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Flag Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 We can only hope to keep it respectable to give us a modicum of a chance. As slim as they may be. Instinct says 55-37 Only 90 points max available Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 The only hope Wolves have is an unpalatable one, in that a withdrawal from the meeting by a Swindon rider, which would almost certainly mean an injury, affects the score. A fully fit Swindon team completing both meetings should comfortably win it. Doesn't have to be injury, breakdowns, riders off form due to coming back from injury or just off form can also make the difference. Greaves would beat Doyle if he broke down, unlikely but you never know, it' s a speedway meeting, anything can happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) We can only hope to keep it respectable to give us a modicum of a chance. As slim as they may be. Instinct says 55-37 It's the Grand Finale man! Yet it is completely now a one-horse race without Lindgren for Wolves. Swindon should win easily. This year's Play-Off Final has turned into that Christmas present you didn't want. Wouldn't get this anti-climax scenario pre-Play-Offs..... Just saying, like.... Edited October 2, 2017 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 It's the Grand Finale man! Yet it is completely now a one-horse race without Lindgren for Wolves. Swindon should win easily. This year's Play-Off Final has turned into that Christmas present you didn't want. Wouldn't get this anti-climax scenario pre-Play-Offs..... Just saying, like.... Err.. yes you would.. the vast majority of years, just saying like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Lets not forget Poole used an asset rather than a guest in last year's play-offs and we all know how that went!! lol And why the rules were changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 And why the rules were changed. This is always the problem, teams looking to exploit them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keef robin Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Try Robins Farm - you can actually see the stadium from there but you need to drive around the block Cold Harbour good, Robins Farm, Harvester avera Swindon 54-36 Wolves 1. Jason Doyle 3 3 3 2' 1 - 12+1 2. Adam Ellis 0 1 3 1 - 5 3. Tobiasz Musielak 3 2' 2 2 - 9+1 4. David Bellego 1 3 1' 3 - 8+1 5. Nick Morris 2 3 2 3 3 - 13 6. Bradley Wilson-Dean 2 0 2' 1' 1 - 6+2 7. Liam Carr 1' 0 0 - 1+1 1. Chris Harris 1' 1 2 3 1 - 8+1 2. Kyle Howarth 2 0 0 1 1 - 4 3. Rory Schlein 2 2 0 3 2 0 - 9 4. r/r 5. Sam Masters 3 2 1' 3 0 2 - 11+1 6. Mark Riss 3 0 0 0 0 - 3 7. Nathan Greaves 0 1 0 - 1 Swindon 54-36 Wolves 1. Jason Doyle 3 3 3 2' 1 - 12+1 2. Adam Ellis 0 1 3 1 - 5 3. Tobiasz Musielak 3 2' 2 2 - 9+1 4. David Bellego 1 3 1' 3 - 8+1 5. Nick Morris 2 3 2 3 3 - 13 6. Bradley Wilson-Dean 2 0 2' 1' 1 - 6+2 7. Liam Carr 1' 0 0 - 1+1 1. Chris Harris 1' 1 2 3 1 - 8+1 2. Kyle Howarth 2 0 0 1 1 - 4 3. Rory Schlein 2 2 0 3 2 0 - 9 4. r/r 5. Sam Masters 3 2 1' 3 0 2 - 11+1 6. Mark Riss 3 0 0 0 0 - 3 7. Nathan Greaves 0 1 0 - 1 I think Ellis will get 6...will go 55-35. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Only 90 points max available Steve sorry RF. Completely forgot about no use of tacticals! Amended to 55-35 It's the Grand Finale man! Yet it is completely now a one-horse race without Lindgren for Wolves. Swindon should win easily. This year's Play-Off Final has turned into that Christmas present you didn't want. Wouldn't get this anti-climax scenario pre-Play-Offs..... Just saying, like.... Play Offs are, and have been big time speedway since they were introduced. Long may that continue. It's certainly not Wolves fault they have to race in the final without their top 2. On paper it looks likely to be the biggest anti climax for that reason only. On the more important plus side both clubs will see bumper attendances with fans coming out to watch big time speedway live. Amen to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Some form of squad system would solve it. Easier said than done though of course. No second thoughts at all. In other seasons your comments may make sense, however not in this one when there was so little between the two sides anyway. Swindon finished pts ahead, but the reality of it is, the difference was 1 race pt. Swindon won 46-45 (I think that was the score) at home to Wolves, a 1pt swing the other way and Wolves are top. To be fair, Swindon had a weakened team that night. Wolves surprise loss at home to Poole the night Kyle Howarth was injured as another factor and I'm sure Swindon can point to some matches too. Both sides also had varying degrees of luck when coming up against sides who were hit by injuries. What does it matter whether Swindon topped the league by 1 pt or 10? They still finished first, and now have to go through the formality of beating Wolves. Canterbury and Newcastle once ended the year level, and it went to race pts to separate them. Still, with Sheffield topping the Championship table and winning, and Swindon looking nailed on to do likewise at least it shows up the play-offs as the waste of time they are. ...and don't get me started on this promotion/relegation bollox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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