Sheffield V Glasgow Po Semi-final 21 Sep

[Phil The Ace]

When your top 2 riders hate each other and at Berwick got into a fight then that must upset moral.

Also when you have spent that much money into your club other fans, clubs, riders envy you, that then turns to hate, meaning every match against Glasgow is like a final to other teams so they will always up your game against you

Edited September 22, 2017 by Phil The Ace

[MD]

When your top 2 riders hate each other and at Berwick got into a fight then that must upset moral.

Also when you have spent that much money into your club other fans, clubs, riders envy you, that then turns to hate, meaning every match against Glasgow is like a final to other teams so they will always up your game against you

Thats the thing though, most of the money has gone on the stadium, which isnt just used for speedway. We built a team to the same points limit as everyone else. Part of the issue is the rampant PR machine which greatly increases the expectations of home fans whilst getting the backs up of the visitors making them more determined to ram it down our throats.

 

It is what it is though. Its still a pleasure to turn out at a superb venue every week. This time three years ago we were bust. Since then we've made the play offs each year though admittedly this year has been the poorest. Still it could be worse, we could have accepted the invite to join the big league for 2017.

[GS550]

When your top 2 riders hate each other

 

It does seem quite petty though and a bit unprofessional, you would think they should just have shaken hands and got on with the job.

[Phil The Ace]

 

It does seem quite petty though and a bit unprofessional, you would think they should just have shaken hands and got on with the job.

That's what the management should be sorting

[Charlieboy]

Great performance from 1-7,Josh Bates was class.We now need a strong start to the return leg and hopefully no injuries.Glad to see Todd back and straight back into it.When riders return after injury you never know if they will get back into the groove or struggle luckily he was on it even though he didn't take his last ride.Well done to all the lads last night keep the run going.Did I hear right that we have Redcar at home next Thursday as website says Ipswich next up the week after ?

[RS50]

Thought I heard the Redcar next Thursday announcement. Clarification from management would be appreciated.

[Bostonian]

Thought I heard the Redcar next Thursday announcement. Clarification from management would be appreciated.

 

They definitely said last night that it's Redcar next Thursday. Guessing it could change though depending what happens with the play-off second legs.

[bellevueace]

Bewley should never been riding should have been told prove your fitness in a Belle Vue match not a semi final

 

Ours is a semi final too

[cheggie]

Phil The Ace, on 22 Sept 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

When your top 2 riders hate each other

 

It does seem quite petty though and a bit unprofessional, you would think they should just have shaken hands and got on with the job.

That's what the management should be sorting

 

From the outside looking in, and in my own humble opinion - it should have either have been sorted out that night back at Berwick, or a change / changes made to the team as soon as possible after the event/incident. The collective is more important than individuals. And as we have now painfully found out, it's not how you start the season - it's how you finish it!

[GS550]

That's what the management should be sorting

 

Indeed. That's exactly what I was getting at.

[graz gp]

Thought I heard the Redcar next Thursday announcement. Clarification from management would be appreciated.

On the Tigers web site it is Redcar next Thursday.

[george.m]

Part of the issue is the rampant PR machine which greatly increases the expectations of home fans whilst getting the backs up of the visitors making them more determined to ram it down our throats.

 

And you're proof of that is where exactly?

 

Tigers' social media praised this year by Greg Hancock, Simon Stead, Chris Louis, Gary Havelock, Matt Ford amongst others.

That's a pretty knowledgable bunch of speedway people who have a different opinion from yours.

[MD]

And you're proof of that is where exactly?

 

Tigers' social media praised this year by Greg Hancock, Simon Stead, Chris Louis, Gary Havelock, Matt Ford amongst others.

That's a pretty knowledgable bunch of speedway people who have a different opinion from yours.

Ouch! Cage rattled? By PR I specifically mean press releases not social media. Example - Up until four weeks ago we were still putting out about going for top spot when Stevie Wonder could see the wheels had come off the bus. Last week after our third home defeat in four meetings Summers is quoted as saying job done and our form isnt a problem. Oh really! The week before Summers again in a release about laying down a marker against Ipswich to signify our play off credentials. Really? Completely belied our form, and his at that point and utterly delusional to say it that way but again suggests and creates expectation that we win everything. Everyone I stand with had it predicted an away win and no doubt that press release pinned to the Ippo dressing room wall would have motivated them no end. Its only after a proper humping at Sheffield on Thursday that it seems the penny has dropped and a bit of decorum has broken out in the after meeting report. Its part of PR to accentuate the positive and deflect negative headlines but also to make press releases appropriate to the circumstances.

 

Regarding the names you've quoted, what exactly were they praising? Number of followers, pictures, exposure for sponsors, links to other clubs, videos? Or did you just list some well knowns and hope that would kill it? As in all things in life and in sport people can and will have opinions, how they perceive things is their view to have.

Edited September 22, 2017 by MD

[SharpenRake]

Bewleys relationship with glasgow as been on a knife edge for a while now. He won't be there next year.

 

But he's not a guy that would purposely do rubbish so I'd assume he had bike trouble last night or isn't fit.

 

If he scores well tonight then you can guess he's saving himself for us

 

Just wonder why his relationship has been on a knife edge for a while now?

 

Any way not bad scoring tonight 14 from 5 and helps knock Swindon out of the Cup. Now if he does that on Tuesday ................

[tyretrax]

 

 

Bewleys relationship with glasgow as been on a knife edge for a while now. He won't be there next year.

 

But he's not a guy that would purposely do rubbish so I'd assume he had bike trouble last night or isn't fit.

 

If he scores well tonight then you can guess he's saving himself for us

What is your source for this statement?

Edited September 22, 2017 by tyretrax

[Halifaxtiger]

I thought this was a bit of both: Sheffield were awesome and Glasgow were rubbish.

 

Worrall & Summers were awful and that's the worst I have seen Bewley ride all season (potentially through bike problems). Only a battling effort from Lawson and one or two flashes from Sarjeant will give Glasgow any hope whatsoever.

 

On the other hand, Bates was brilliant and Graversen's signing really was a master stroke. All the others contributed and when you win that well with Howarth having (for him) a slight off night it just shows how good Sheffield are. There simply isn't a weak link.

[george.m]

Ouch! Cage rattled? By PR I specifically mean press releases not social media. Example - Up until four weeks ago we were still putting out about going for top spot when Stevie Wonder could see the wheels had come off the bus. Last week after our third home defeat in four meetings Summers is quoted as saying job done and our form isnt a problem. Oh really! The week before Summers again in a release about laying down a marker against Ipswich to signify our play off credentials. Really? Completely belied our form, and his at that point and utterly delusional to say it that way but again suggests and creates expectation that we win everything. Everyone I stand with had it predicted an away win and no doubt that press release pinned to the Ippo dressing room wall would have motivated them no end. Its only after a proper humping at Sheffield on Thursday that it seems the penny has dropped and a bit of decorum has broken out in the after meeting report. Its part of PR to accentuate the positive and deflect negative headlines but also to make press releases appropriate to the circumstances.

 

Regarding the names you've quoted, what exactly were they praising? Number of followers, pictures, exposure for sponsors, links to other clubs, videos? Or did you just list some well knowns and hope that would kill it? As in all things in life and in sport people can and will have opinions, how they perceive things is their view to have.

 

For the purpose of balance so forum members can make an informed decision.

The Tigers' social media team collectively, and as individuals, work long hours of their own time to improve the end product our followers receive. We don't always get it right, however by constantly (and I do mean constantly) and collectively self critiquing, and reviewing feedback, we believe we've improved our output through time.

To reassure you, a significant amount of feedback is received publicly, through word of mouth and private messages. All is greatly valued - positive and negative.

As I'm sure you'll appreciate, the first step in reviewing any feedback is establishing credibility so that our limited time resource is used positively to the benefit of all and not wasted on red herrings, nor on supposition provided by individuals with personal agendas.

To address your second post.

Thank you for clarifying the ambiguity of your original one.

I assumed you were using the correct meaning of 'PR'.

Which of course is 'Public Relations'.

Public relations is, of course, a phrase which encompasses all forms of communication with customers.

I can only respond to what is written, not inferred.

I also note your use of the word 'rampant'.

Which of course could mean - uncontrolled - hard to tell what you mean exactly with such a loose word.

I can assure you, Tigers' social media is not uncontrolled. Also, we take very seriously our responsibility to represent the club in the correct manner.

So to your original post and the element I quoted.

(As an aside, funnily enough there was a similar post on Tigers FB page too yesterday which has very similar wording).

Clearly the quoted parts have not been addressed in your response, which perhaps highlights the inaccuracies and by definition the credibility of the original.

First - "Which greatly increases the expectations of home fans" - Your second post gives no evidence of this. Are you suggesting you are speaking for the majority, or all, of them? Perhaps originally you were just referring to those who you stand with? Our feedback, and increasing number of followers with all social media platforms, suggests the total opposite. Even based on what can be seen on FB alone - they have the ability to think for themselves. and have a realistic and knowledgable insight of their sport. They are not shy in making their views known. Perhaps your opinion of their intellect differs?

The evidence you provided was from some published articles - it was not of the fans' reaction to the articles. Which was your original comment I quoted and referred to. No evidence.

Secondly - "no doubt that press release pinned to the Ippo dressing room wall would have motivated them no end". Again no evidence. We have access to the dressing room pre-meeting and that certainly wasn't the case. Of course this could just be the use of hyperbole. And yet again, our views of the intellect of others potentially differs.

Thirdly - I made reference to rider, manager, promoter feedback (all with no Tigers' bias) as evidence which is in the public domain and is there for all to see/listen to.

It would be remiss of me not to respond to your "press release" comments in your second post.

I'm not sure how you would see any Tigers' Press Releases, unless you are a recipient (official or unofficial) of these?

What you are referring to, of course, differs as these are written articles. Not press releases.

Press releases are potentially open to personal interpretation and therefore misrepresentation.

In respect of ours, the articles have accurately reported what was said.

Would you prefer we mis-report the views of the club captain to our audience?

Or should we just ignore them?

Our experience is that such censorship is not what our fans wish for.

Cage rattled? Well if that floats your boat then yet again we've got another satisfied customer. It's a pleasure to have been of service.

So, in conclusion, I've provided an accurate response to your posts - backed where possible with evidence.

As a valued customer we can only apologise if we don't come up to your expectations.

In all forms of life you cannot and will not satisfy the demands of all. But we live and learn.

For the record, we have already taken on board your comments - having reviewed and assessed them yesterday.

We are always looking for people to join our social media team and extend an invitation to yourself - if you believe you can enhance and improve our output. The same invitation has been extended previously on FB, generally and to a specific individual. However, be aware, similar comments about Stevie Wonder would not be appropriate when representing the club. You will need to be prepared to work long hours, incur expenses you will not be reimbursed for and be on call 24/7 (including holidays) to respond quickly to news/queries. Finally, you'll need to accept your output will be scrutinised by the club (to ensure it's not rampant) and a knowledgable public audience.

Edited September 23, 2017 by george.m

[MD]

 

 

For the purpose of balance so forum members can make an informed decision.

 

The Tigers' social media team collectively, and as individuals, work long hours of their own time to improve the end product our followers receive. We don't always get it right, however by constantly (and I do mean constantly) and collectively self critiquing, and reviewing feedback, we believe we've improved our output through time.

To reassure you, a significant amount of feedback is received publicly, through word of mouth and private messages. All is greatly valued - positive and negative.

As I'm sure you'll appreciate, the first step in reviewing any feedback is establishing credibility so that our limited time resource is used positively to the benefit of all and not wasted on red herrings, nor on supposition provided by individuals with personal agendas.

To address your second post.

Thank you for clarifying the ambiguity of your original one.

I assumed you were using the correct meaning of 'PR'.

Which of course is 'Public Relations'.

Public relations is, of course, a phrase which encompasses all forms of communication with customers.

I can only respond to what is written, not inferred.

I also note your use of the word 'rampant'.

Which of course could mean - uncontrolled - hard to tell what you mean exactly with such a loose word.

I can assure you, Tigers' social media is not uncontrolled. Also, we take very seriously our responsibility to represent the club in the correct manner.

So to your original post and the element I quoted.

(As an aside, funnily enough there was a similar post on Tigers FB page too yesterday which has very similar wording).

Clearly the quoted parts have not been addressed in your response, which perhaps highlights the inaccuracies and by definition the credibility of the original.

First - "Which greatly increases the expectations of home fans" - Your second post gives no evidence of this. Are you suggesting you are speaking for the majority, or all, of them? Perhaps originally you were just referring to those who you stand with? Our feedback, and increasing number of followers with all social media platforms, suggests the total opposite. Even based on what can be seen on FB alone - they have the ability to think for themselves. and have a realistic and knowledgable insight of their sport. They are not shy in making their views known. Perhaps your opinion of their intellect differs?

The evidence you provided was from some published articles - it was not of the fans' reaction to the articles. Which was your original comment I quoted and referred to. No evidence.

Secondly - "no doubt that press release pinned to the Ippo dressing room wall would have motivated them no end". Again no evidence. We have access to the dressing room pre-meeting and that certainly wasn't the case. Of course this could just be the use of hyperbole. And yet again, our views of the intellect of others potentially differs.

Thirdly - I made reference to rider, manager, promoter feedback (all with no Tigers' bias) as evidence which is in the public domain and is there for all to see/listen to.

It would be remiss of me not to respond to your "press release" comments in your second post.

I'm not sure how you would see any Tigers' Press Releases, unless you are a recipient (official or unofficial) of these?

What you are referring to, of course, differs as these are written articles. Not press releases.

Press releases are potentially open to personal interpretation and therefore misrepresentation.

In respect of ours, the articles have accurately reported what was said.

Would you prefer we mis-report the views of the club captain to our audience?

Or should we just ignore them?

Our experience is that such censorship is not what our fans wish for.

Cage rattled? Well if that floats your boat then yet again we've got another satisfied customer. It's a pleasure to have been of service.

So, in conclusion, I've provided an accurate response to your posts - backed where possible with evidence.

As a valued customer we can only apologise if we don't come up to your expectations.

In all forms of life you cannot and will not satisfy the demands of all. But we live and learn.

For the record, we have already taken on board your comments - having reviewed and assessed them yesterday.

We are always looking for people to join our social media team and extend an invitation to yourself - if you believe you can enhance and improve our output. The same invitation has been extended previously on FB, generally and to a specific individual. However, be aware, similar comments about Stevie Wonder would not be appropriate when representing the club. You will need to be prepared to work long hours, incur expenses you will not be reimbursed for and be on call 24/7 (including holidays) to respond quickly to news/queries. Finally, you'll need to accept your output will be scrutinised by the club (to ensure it's not rampant) and a knowledgable public audience.

Thats a comprehensive reply, and I thank you for taking the time to do it and for taking my comments on board. For the benefit of doubt I dont do Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc but view your content via the Tigers Twitter page. If someone has copied and pasted my posting from here I have no control over this. I am a long standing supporter without agenda. Its not possible to always be objective but if you select my profile and view my posts you can judge if my credibility fits with yours. I do not post anywhere else other than a rare foray on Easy Tiger.

 

I am however frustrated at the lack of reality in the quotes/postings (articles published on Tigers Twitter for clarification) I mentioned previously, and the rider I have quoted. If our captain cant see that we have floundered week after week and comes out with what we have read I question why it needed to be published. It makes him look delusional. 'We need to lay down a marker' No, you need to work on your own issues and score the points you did April to June.'We need to lay down title credentials'. No, you need to accept we peaked in June and mention we have to pull out all the stops, ride to our potential, make gating crucial, avoid last places, say how much a challenge it will be etc but overall recognise we are on the back foot and that things might not go our way.

 

I travelled on the summer fixtures to Ipswich and Sheffield where we were pretty woeful, with the odd exception. I will scan the programme covers if you require 'evidence'. Our nearest title challengers turned us over without effort and arrived on our patch a month later and did the same, along with Peterborough yet still the same lack of recognition that it happened, that it was just the reserves, that we arent the team we were early season and are struggling big time but not to worry we are in the play offs anyway. Thats my gripe, not with you but the absolute lack of reality of our situation in these quotes.

[george.m]

Thats a comprehensive reply, and I thank you for taking the time to do it and for taking my comments on board. For the benefit of doubt I dont do Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc but view your content via the Tigers Twitter page. If someone has copied and pasted my posting from here I have no control over this. I am a long standing supporter without agenda. Its not possible to always be objective but if you select my profile and view my posts you can judge if my credibility fits with yours. I do not post anywhere else other than a rare foray on Easy Tiger.

 

I am however frustrated at the lack of reality in the quotes/postings (articles published on Tigers Twitter for clarification) I mentioned previously, and the rider I have quoted. If our captain cant see that we have floundered week after week and comes out with what we have read I question why it needed to be published. It makes him look delusional. 'We need to lay down a marker' No, you need to work on your own issues and score the points you did April to June.'We need to lay down title credentials'. No, you need to accept we peaked in June and mention we have to pull out all the stops, ride to our potential, make gating crucial, avoid last places, say how much a challenge it will be etc but overall recognise we are on the back foot and that things might not go our way.

 

I travelled on the summer fixtures to Ipswich and Sheffield where we were pretty woeful, with the odd exception. I will scan the programme covers if you require 'evidence'. Our nearest title challengers turned us over without effort and arrived on our patch a month later and did the same, along with Peterborough yet still the same lack of recognition that it happened, that it was just the reserves, that we arent the team we were early season and are struggling big time but not to worry we are in the play offs anyway. Thats my gripe, not with you but the absolute lack of reality of our situation in these quotes.

 

Firstly, I'm glad our correspondence has been in the right manner as all too often on forums it deteriorates into personal slanging matches.

Thanks also for you "thanks".

 

Since going into the social team I've had my eyes opened.

The amount of work that goes into it and the amount of personal time people give up to promote the club and help supporters is considerable.

I never realised we received so many FB private messages - especially on match days, mainly weather update requests, which is understandable when people have long distances to travel.

Often we're not even at the track in a position to advise - personally I'm en route doing an hour's drive (taxi service for kids!) to and from meetings.

We enjoy doing it, and rarely complain when flack comes our way.

 

It's mainly one person who deals with all these messages (as well as other club duties) and he should be commended for the amount of person time and professional pride he puts into it.

We take it as compliment when supporters, riders, etc judge our output think we have an extensive media team - we don't.

 

And we're not the only volunteers who help to bring speedway to the supporters - there are many at Glasgow and other clubs too. And many "outside" the club such as Updates texters and admin.

We do speak, and when unjustified or inaccurate criticism comes our way we do question why we're doing this - when you could be spending time with the family.

 

Was my cage rattled?

I'll admit it was.

We work hard and with little or no thanks. So criticism (yes, sometimes our perception) can get to you if you let it.

The circumstances we have to work with because of the nature of the sport (mainly late cancellations, or team line up decisions)are not easy - but we try our best.

 

I can fully appreciate the essence of what you're saying.

We do report however what is being said "on the record" though.

 

I have genuinely tried to help you and others understand what goes on behind the scenes. I hope I've done so in some way.

 

Thanks again!

[tyretrax]

You may notice that I have "liked" the above posts. Both were well put and as George said without malice.

Edited September 24, 2017 by tyretrax