Chairboy Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 ...and possibly a degree of sporting integrity, too. Do you watch football? Whatever you may think of the sport, I think we would all love speedway to enjoy just a small percentage of the popularity that football generates. Football seems to operate well enough with 3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw. Can you imagine football awarding an extra league point if you don't lose by too much? Or giving the away team an extra point for a draw? The league tables in speedway are a mess. Also, if you are watching Man Utd against Bournemouth and United go 3-0 up, do you think it would be a good idea for Bournemouth's next goal to count double "to make it interesting"? Some may say you can't compare speedway to football - but I (obviously!) think you can - and should. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 ...and possibly a degree of sporting integrity, too. Do you watch football? Whatever you may think of the sport, I think we would all love speedway to enjoy just a small percentage of the popularity that football generates. Football seems to operate well enough with 3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw. Can you imagine football awarding an extra league point if you don't lose by too much? Or giving the away team an extra point for a draw? The league tables in speedway are a mess. Also, if you are watching Man Utd against Bournemouth and United go 3-0 up, do you think it would be a good idea for Bournemouth's next goal to count double "to make it interesting"? Some may say you can't compare speedway to football - but I (obviously!) think you can - and should. No need to imagine it. It has been the case for years in football, long before speedway thought of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Of course the FA would never do anything as ludicrous as this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/football/fa_cup/544737.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 ...and possibly a degree of sporting integrity, too. Do you watch football? Whatever you may think of the sport, I think we would all love speedway to enjoy just a small percentage of the popularity that football generates. Football seems to operate well enough with 3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw. Can you imagine football awarding an extra league point if you don't lose by too much? Or giving the away team an extra point for a draw? The league tables in speedway are a mess. Also, if you are watching Man Utd against Bournemouth and United go 3-0 up, do you think it would be a good idea for Bournemouth's next goal to count double "to make it interesting"? Some may say you can't compare speedway to football - but I (obviously!) think you can - and should. The BSPA has evolved over many years and like all processes of evolution, things become more and more complex and are loved and enjoyed ( internally ) as being so intricate. That is why the rule book is such a glorious thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Imagine a sport where 2 teams can meet in a Cup draw the first game 1-1 then draw the second game 2-2 – both score 3 goals over the 2 games but 1 one side goes through and the other doesn’t…..ow wait. All sports need their own alterations and modifications to add to the value of the product, the additional points for a competitive meeting is one of the good ones speedway has come up with, and in all honesty is about as basic and simple a rule as you can get. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairboy Posted September 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Imagine a sport where 2 teams can meet in a Cup draw the first game 1-1 then draw the second game 2-2 – both score 3 goals over the 2 games but 1 one side goes through and the other doesn’t…..ow wait. All sports need their own alterations and modifications to add to the value of the product, the additional points for a competitive meeting is one of the good ones speedway has come up with, and in all honesty is about as basic and simple a rule as you can get. Fair play, HJD. For what it's worth, I don't like the Away Goals rule in football either! Thanks for a reasonable response to my comments though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 You were on safer ground arguing against the double point TR. Which is an abomination. Not the match points issue Which is a one of British Speedway's few modern-day advancements. Whilst I think there is almost unanimous support to eradicate tthe double point nonsense. It just needs a couple of dozen promoters to actually listen and respond. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 You were on safer ground arguing against the double point TR. Which is an abomination. Not the match points issue Which is a one of British Speedway's few modern-day advancements. Whilst I think there is almost unanimous support to eradicate tthe double point nonsense. It just needs a couple of dozen promoters to actually listen and respond. Speedway's rule makers just cause confusion. I knew I couldn't keep up, 12 years ago when a fan beside me asked rule-linked question. A fan of of 30 years then, feeling embarrassed because I had no clue to the answer, I just pointed to someone with chips. "Those chips look nice," I said. Thankfully I swiftly kicked the question into the long grass. But I felt a fake in not knowing the answer. By the way, it was a Golden Double question.... Simple is best... aggregate bonus points, 4 points for a win over a certain amount of points, 10 if you use all your own riders... keep it simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 As a matter of interest why was the 'bonus point' dropped based on the home and away aggregate score? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairboy Posted September 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 As a matter of interest why was the 'bonus point' dropped based on the home and away aggregate score? So glad you brought that one up - that genuinely was an excellent idea 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theboss Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 So glad you brought that one up - that genuinely was an excellent idea It was dropped to stop teams being built focused purely on home performance. For example lakeside. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) So glad you brought that one up - that genuinely was an excellent idea It was a good idea. Until it was superceded by an even better one. The current match points system. This keeps interest going in both first and second matches brilliantly. Irrespective of the aggregate score which may be very one sided; and only ever really came into play in the second meeting. Edited September 15, 2017 by Grand Central 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 It was dropped to stop teams being built focused purely on home performance. For example lakeside. I seem to recall that Exeter won the league once based on their very strong home performances and picked up all the bonus points although their away record wasn't particularly great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairboy Posted September 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 It was a good idea. Until it was superceded by an even better one. The current match points system. This keeps interest going in both first and second matches brilliantly. Irrespective of the aggregate score which may be very one sided; and only ever really came into play in the second meeting. It may sound perverse -as most contributors on here have disagreed with my views - but I am actually pleased to see that the current system clearly has support from 'the fans'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 I like the league points system. But I have always been uncomfortable with the TR idea. Preferring instead something akin to the old TR rule as well as choice of gate positions when you're behind. The choice of gate positions might get clubs to grade the gates more fairly. The advantage gained by being out of certain gates at some circuits is very noticeable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 I like the league points system. But I have always been uncomfortable with the TR idea. Preferring instead something akin to the old TR rule as well as choice of gate positions when you're behind. The choice of gate positions might get clubs to grade the gates more fairly. The advantage gained by being out of certain gates at some circuits is very noticeable. Gate four was often a stinker at Cowley! I always preferred alternate gates as the fixed gates often offered a team an advantage either early on or late during the match as track conditions altered as the gates were not always alternate whereby a team had successive inside and/or outside gates depending on who won/lost the toss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 ...and possibly a degree of sporting integrity, too. Do you watch football? Whatever you may think of the sport, I think we would all love speedway to enjoy just a small percentage of the popularity that football generates. Football seems to operate well enough with 3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw. Can you imagine football awarding an extra league point if you don't lose by too much? Or giving the away team an extra point for a draw? The league tables in speedway are a mess. Also, if you are watching Man Utd against Bournemouth and United go 3-0 up, do you think it would be a good idea for Bournemouth's next goal to count double "to make it interesting"? Some may say you can't compare speedway to football - but I (obviously!) think you can - and should. The points system used in speedway is almost perfect. The only mistake they made was removing the 2pts for a home win of 1-6pts. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 I always preferred alternate gates as the fixed gates often offered a team an advantage either early on or late during the match as track conditions altered as the gates were not always alternate whereby a team had successive inside and/or outside gates depending on who won/lost the toss. So.... Team captains toss a coin as now. Winner chooses gates in heat 1 or 15. Then teams alternate gates each race. Let the team managers choose which rider goes in which gate. If you're 8 or more behind the losing team can choose which pair of gates they want and continue to do so until they are less than 8 behind when the teams alternate again. At least with this system, the riders have to score the point according to the normal scoring system. And if one gate was a graveyard and the losing team kept choosing the other pair of gates, watch how quickly the ground staff would start to grade the offending gate. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 The current point scoring system is brilliant. It's rare a heat 15 doesn't mean something these days. As mentioned, it was better when you only got 2 for a home win of 1-6 points though. As a matter of interest why was the 'bonus point' dropped based on the home and away aggregate score? So glad you brought that one up - that genuinely was an excellent idea Because it was confusing. You get to heat 15, you've won the meeting (or lost it) and you ask, "Can we get a bonus point Dave?" and Dave replies, "I don't know, what was the score in the other meeting?" Not a clue, don't know. You may laugh at this but I was at a Stoke vs Newport meeting many years ago when Newport promoter Tim Stone come out into the crowd and asked us, "What do we need to get a bonus point", the away promoter didnt know FFS, neither did the fans because the programme was a rain off programme from before the 1st leg and nobody had thought to check before hand in case the programme didnt tell us! At least what we have now, we all know when we go home if bonus points have been won and they matter in every meeting, not just the second leg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Thanks for the info...although I never found the old system confusing personally but I can see the merits of the system that operates presently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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