Grachan Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Surely, if something is down to referee error, then it should stand? It would be the refs responsibility to notice any rule infringements and act on that. I bet old Lucifer Sam could barely contain his excitement at the prospect of Swindon being deducted points though. It's worth it happening just as an act of kindness to him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Surely, if something is down to referee error, then it should stand? It would be the refs responsibility to notice any rule infringements and act on that. I bet old Lucifer Sam could barely contain his excitement at the prospect of Swindon being deducted points though. It's worth it happening just as an act of kindness to him! Grachan, cheers mate. Seriously though, if a rider has taken an illegal ride, surely it has to be pointed out. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) The inference from the regulations is that an appeal must be made before the following heat? Assuming I have read that correctly. Or are you saying, that the SCB can arbitrarily amend the result irrespective of whether an appeal was made by BV? The SCB must amend the result and can do irrespective of any protest- especially as this is a 2 legged contest. Also scorechart still not up on BSPA website. Edited September 15, 2017 by racers and royals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Should have been thrown out of the meeting then maybe riders will get a strong message not to cheat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Grachan, cheers mate. Seriously though, if a rider has taken an illegal ride, surely it has to be pointed out. All the best Rob What should have happened, and I've seen it before, is that the ref should have put the red lights on as the riders came to the tapes and informed them that Musielak had to come in of 15m or Swindon go with just one rider. Looking at how long the meeting took, though, I guess you deserved this minor moment of entertainment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Neil Watson has correctly stated the position. It is a matter of fact. Whether you chose to believe it is up to you. However it remains a fact. Think of it like football where the ball hits the side netting and the ref erroneously awards a goal. NO MATTER HOW CLEAR THE VIDEO EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY, THE GOAL STANDS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) Neil Watson has correctly stated the position. It is a matter of fact. Whether you chose to believe it is up to you. However it remains a fact. Think of it like football where the ball hits the side netting and the ref erroneously awards a goal. NO MATTER HOW CLEAR THE VIDEO EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY, THE GOAL STANDS. How come the Poole illegal 5% for an away guest at Peterborough was amended the following day- no difference here. Edited September 15, 2017 by racers and royals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) Neil Watson has correctly stated the position. It is a matter of fact. Whether you chose to believe it is up to you. However it remains a fact. Think of it like football where the ball hits the side netting and the ref erroneously awards a goal. NO MATTER HOW CLEAR THE VIDEO EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY, THE GOAL STANDS. Poor analogy. This wasn't a refereeing decision on who was excluded from a race. It was a rider taking an ineligible ride. If a football club fields an ineligible player, then they have points deducted (Oxford United fell foul of this a few years ago). All the best Rob Edited September 15, 2017 by lucifer sam 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 It's a sad fact that a fan has to point out the rules to the people involved in running the meeting. ! The answer will no doubt be the " interpretation " of the rule as normal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 How come the Poole illegal 5% for an away guest at Peterborough was amended the following day- no difference here. Ty Proctor? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) Ty Proctor? they were also using R/R and it all got a bit messy- the illegal guest took an illegal R/R or something like that- Matt Ford came up with a marvellous excuse for the cock-up saying he hadn`t attended the conference so wasn`t aware the rule had changed. !!!!!! I wonder what Rosco`s excuse will be Edited September 15, 2017 by racers and royals 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) The meeting took a while because of who the ref was, renown for holding the tapes a while!!!!!!! Heat 3, as stated, he has not actually started the race so becomes a frustrated ride & does not count. Heat 5 becomes his 1st ride Heat 9, as I see it, is that he will only have 3 programmed rides so the only option is -15m Heat 12 is the same as heat 9. Note; I have read the updates & know about the injury to Smith's subsequent visit to the hospital. Edited September 15, 2017 by IronScorpion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblueboy Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 The SCB must amend the result and can do irrespective of any protest- especially as this is a 2 legged contest. Also scorechart still not up on BSPA website. I don't doubt what you say and I fully acknowledge your superior knowledge of speedway, however, surely grachan has a point? If a ref makes a mistake, it is just that. I know results have been adjusted for varying reasons in speedway but it doesn't happen in other sports. Maradonna's hand of God, Pedro Mendes effort v Man U. People edging the ball in cricket and not being given. These are examples where the results are materially affected by officials making mistakes but results are allowed to stand, however, speedway seems to correct those mistakes. Is this how it's always been? Given how other sports accept the position should Speedway follow suit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyderd Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 football now has goal line technology, if the ref makes a mistake, then the 4th official notifies him of the TV evidence and the correct decision is made. Speedway is so far behind we shouldn't compare the 2 sports. If the ref made a mistake then his decision from that heat should stand until the BSPA say otherwise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 I don't doubt what you say and I fully acknowledge your superior knowledge of speedway, however, surely grachan has a point? If a ref makes a mistake, it is just that. I know results have been adjusted for varying reasons in speedway but it doesn't happen in other sports. Maradonna's hand of God, Pedro Mendes effort v Man U. People edging the ball in cricket and not being given. These are examples where the results are materially affected by officials making mistakes but results are allowed to stand, however, speedway seems to correct those mistakes. Is this how it's always been? Given how other sports accept the position should Speedway follow suit? Surely the difference is that if it's a question of interpretation, then the results stands. But if the rules were broken, black and white, the result should be subject to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 football now has goal line technology, if the ref makes a mistake, then the 4th official notifies him of the TV evidence and the correct decision is made. Speedway is so far behind we shouldn't compare the 2 sports. If the ref made a mistake then his decision from that heat should stand until the BSPA say otherwise. Until the BSPA say otherwise? That's a bit risky! What there should be is a set procedure for events like this, and that should be followed every time. What's the betting there isn't? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyderd Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Until the BSPA say otherwise? That's a bit risky! What there should be is a set procedure for events like this, and that should be followed every time. What's the betting there isn't? Thats what I was referring to about the BSPA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) they were also using R/R and it all got a bit messy- the illegal guest took an illegal R/R or something like that- Matt Ford came up with a marvellous excuse for the cock-up saying he hadn`t attended the conference so wasn`t aware the rule had changed. !!!!!! I wonder what Rosco`s excuse will be I imagine the SCB official (referee) wasn't aware either!! Maybe the rule book was delayed in the post?! Edited September 15, 2017 by Skidder1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Didnt a Redcar rider have an illegal R/R ride or something vs Somerset last season? Although it was pointed out on here and it meant Somerset lost a league point they would have otherwise won the BSPA deemed it a "statement of fact" by the referee because Somerset had not appealed before the next heat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblueboy Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Surely the difference is that if it's a question of interpretation, then the results stands. But if the rules were broken, black and white, the result should be subject to change. All decisions made by a referee are interpretation - his/hers. The problem is that decisions made by those referees are made in the heat of battle, and in real time. Sometimes a split second to decide. Hence, why they can be wrong. In this case, there has been no reason for Alpen's non-appearance in heat 12. He could have been injured from the heat 9 fall. He may not. Rosco should clarify what happened here if points are lost. I don't have a problem if the points are deducted, if Swindon have transgressed the rules, then the general position adopted is a deduction of points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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