Do We Still Need The Play-offs

[chunky]

Now I know you don't like American sport.....

Just kidding, I know many of you love American sport.

Maybe we can learn from the US.

I don't know all the details of how games are organised in American Football but they basically organise the divisions on a roughly geographical basis. Games are played and teams are declared division champions. Each one of two conferences organise games at the end of the season to determine the conference champions and then they meet in the Super Bowl.

My point is that the league structure means that they don't have this ambiguity between the team scoring the most team points and who wins the playoffs. Winning your division gets you to the next stage of being the champion.

Let's have one big league. Split it into 4. Doesn't need to geographical, race night might be more logical. Organise the fixtures, which don't need to all within division but would be for the most part. Division leaders would race in semi finals and the winner of those meet in the final.

Adopting this kind of idea has endless possibilities but we'd all know who the League Champions were at the end it all.

The important thing to remember about American sports - certainly with both football and baseball - is that they don't compete against the others in an equal amount of matches. Therefore, there is a slightly greater value to playoffs.

 

As far as baseball, the number of divisions within a league (and remember that all divisions run parallel) can also lead to another anomaly; the fact that if the two best teams in the league happen to be in the same division, then the team with the second best record in the entire league could miss out on a spot in the playoffs! That is why it is structured the way it is. In speedway, and British footy, that can't happen.

 

Steve

[Ghostwalker]

Well if the "play offs" wouldn't have existed Smederna would have been fifth but now we have got ourself into the final by knocking out the 2nd and 3rd placed teams in Elitserien.
Having a "play off" as a national team champion decider gives extra meaning to the final rounds of the regular series. Without "play offs" a team could be far enough ahead for

the title to already be decided and the final rounds would be meaningless. A standalone championship cup doesn't have the same "prestige" or what you want to call it

as a series connected "play offs".

[BWitcher]

not interested in any other sports but when money is tight and the sport is struggling to attract fans it shouldn't be making the public pay extra , you get nothing extra for your money , the riders don't get anything extra , the costs are the same so why should the fans be charged extra ?

 

Of course you are getting extra for your money!

[False dawn]

The important thing to remember about American sports - certainly with both football and baseball - is that they don't compete against the others in an equal amount of matches. Therefore, there is a slightly greater value to playoffs.

That's exactly my point. Design a divisional system that doesn't result in an outright winner so that the play offs are the deciding factor.

As to your point about the best two sides being in the same division. No problem. Again follow the NFL model whereby the 2 clubs (say) with the best losing record get wildcards into the playoffs and design the play offs so that clubs from the same division don't meet early on.

This is possible. Once you abandon the idea that all clubs have to meet each other home and away you can make the play offs more meaningful and you can organise the fixture list to better suit the club's availability and rider availability etc.

[SCB]

One thing I don't like about the playoffs is they put the admission price up for the final, thanks for supporting us all year and being a loyal fan in return we are going to sting you for another couple of quid

I've never once had an issue with paying extra for a play-off final. And the crowd sizes suggest nobody else does. I'd happily pay £30 now to watch Newport or Coventry in a play-off final.

 

Speedway gets a lot of things wrong but IMO, plays off are one of the three things it has right. The other two being the points limit and the league points system of 3-2-1-0-1-2-3-4. Yes all 3 could potentially be tweaked but the basic idea is spot on. Keep the play-offs, they're brilliant.

[Grachan]

 

Not quite.

 

In other sports it is recognised that the play-offs is the big prize, where the 'real' champions are crowned.

 

Rugby League for example has a shield for whom tops the table, but the reality is, it's winning the Grand FInal that matters.

 

I know Basketball has different champions for league table and play-offs. I have been to the play-off finals and they are probably Basketball's biggest day of the season.

 

Ideally, I would prefer to have separate champions - but the problem speedway might have, if that were the case, would be making the play-offs attractive as other end of season competitions (such as Craven Shield and KO Cup as it is these days) haven't done so well in the past.

 

If promoted properly, the play-offs could still be the highlight of the season, but, as speedway is at the moment, I think it needs the play-off champions to also be league champions in order to make the play-offs attractive.

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

It appears most of the people who don’t like them don’t, and haven’t attended for the best part of 5 years plus so who cares and why pander to them.

 

I rarely read a point about scrapping them that I can agree with and people saying they just don’t like them is definitely not one of those points.

Never liked the play offs the champions should be who wins the league. Don't follow rugby league but if the play off winners haven't won the league then I fail to see how they can be called champions.Imagine if Chelsea had to go into a four match cup at the end of the season after winning the league and not ending up as champions!A serious sport like football would never come up with a daft idea like this and the fans wouldn't want it either.Ditch the stupid joker thing as well!
I

 

 

That just patently is not true - that is the kind of stigma and lie some attach to Play Offs and hope sticks

 

The lower leagues in England have Play-Offs that have generated huge amounts of interest globally and boosted the leagues profile so much so that they just signed a TV deal in excess of 600 million.

 

A “Play Off” for promotion seeing a side ending 3^rd and missing out on promotion and the glory of the EPL to a side finishing 6^th doesn’t differ that much to a side who end the table top and don’t finish Champions - if you wish to play the credible and morally correct card it surely applies regardless of league position?

 

But then again credible sports that attract millions of paying and attending fans, viewers and interest locally and globally like Football, Rugby Union, Rugby League, NFL would never have Play Offs because they aren’t credible and utterly destroy the sports…..is what isn’t said when these sports play out Play Offs at stadia like Wembley and Twickenham in front of crowds of 75,000 +/

Edited September 14, 2017 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan

[moxey63]

It appears most of the people who don’t like them don’t, and haven’t attended for the best part of 5 years plus so who cares and why pander to them.

 

I rarely read a point about scrapping them that I can agree with and people saying they just don’t like them is definitely not one of those points.

 

Perhaps they haven't attended the best part of 5 years because they don't like the Play-Offs and therefore were provided with just another opportunity to become disillusioned with current speedway.

 

Although I neither like or dislike the Play-Offs, I do tend to believe they allow a fair bit of gerrymandering leading up to them. Teams can afford to lose early matches, introduce better riders, just in time for the Lord Mayor's show. This gives a fair whack to speedway's already tested credibility and may have even marooned once regular supporters to the comfort of their couches long before the X-factor type Play-Offs fall upon us. Of course some may be airlifted from their comfy seat at home and be persuaded to attend the Play-Offs, but what cost to the league programme of matches that preceded the lure.

 

I laugh at Speedway Star's pre-season prediction list... because most teams play a bit of musical chairs even before the easter eggs have been sunk. Wolves did it this year... showing a fair bit of tinkering in the practice matches in the six months before we gulp the Play-Off shot.

Edited September 14, 2017 by moxey63

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

 

Perh

 

 

Zzzzzzz

Edited September 14, 2017 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan

[colin wood]

My point was that football will never use play offs to decide champions.Whoever wins the league is rightly called the champions.Promotion and relegation play offs are a different thing entirely.

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

My point was that football will never use play offs to decide champions.Whoever wins the league is rightly called the champions.Promotion and relegation play offs are a different thing entirely.

 

Why?

 

A side who are 3rd and miss out on promotion to a team who are 6th and 20 points behind them surely have every right to feel as irked as a team who were 1st and miss out to a team who end the season 2nd and 1 point behind?

 

Even removing Football from the situation a sport with credibility like Rugby Union does have Play-Offs to crown their Champions, the idea it is exclusive to joke sports, or sports without credibility is just not true.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

 

Of course you are getting extra for your money!

are you ? Like what ?

[moxey63]

are you ? Like what ?

 

You get more for your money....

 

You see speedway fans who haven't been all season standing beside you... least you know they are still with us and haven't kicked the bucket. And you even have someone standing close enough to you that makes you realise what speedway with a crowd is really like.

 

God, some people.

Edited September 14, 2017 by moxey63

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

My point was that football will never use play offs to decide champions.Whoever wins the league is rightly called the champions.Promotion and relegation play offs are a different thing entirely.

Really??

 

Champions league -8 groups followed by knock out (plays offs) and grand final

 

World Cup - Continental group qualifiers followed by mini league groups followed by knock out (play offs) and a grand final

[colin wood]

It does make you think.If they can turn up for a play off final where are they for league matches!

[britmet]

Do We Still Need The Play-offs ?

.
NO ! The league champions should be the team that's at the top of the table at the end of the season.
If a couple of eliminator-style matches are needed in Sept / October, that okay, but call it what it is, a Knock-Out Cup/Shield/ Rose bowl, . . anything you like, but lets not rewrite the English language, - a league is a league, a KOC is KOC.

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by britmet

[colin wood]

Champions league football always used to be a knock out competition.Tell me a country that uses play offs to decide league champions.

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

RU fans have the same arguments, I've copied some of them in the past. The qualifier and cup format works financially in RU mainly due to the 80,000+ that turn up for the finals, compared to the 6,000 for speedway.

 

Oh loads of people have “arguments” it doesn’t mean they aren’t talking sh*t..

[BWitcher]

 

I know Basketball has different champions for league table and play-offs. I have been to the play-off finals and they are probably Basketball's biggest day of the season.

 

Ideally, I would prefer to have separate champions - but the problem speedway might have, if that were the case, would be making the play-offs attractive as other end of season competitions (such as Craven Shield and KO Cup as it is these days) haven't done so well in the past.

 

If promoted properly, the play-offs could still be the highlight of the season, but, as speedway is at the moment, I think it needs the play-off champions to also be league champions in order to make the play-offs attractive.

 

 

Agree with that.

 

The only way to make it work and have the two separate 'champions' if you will is as mentioned earlier in the thread and turn it into an 'event'. A weekend of speedway at the NSS etc.

 

However.. there is one big problem with that of course and that is the weather which may decide not to play ball!

are you ? Like what ?

 

Speedway at it's absolute best.

 

Superb atmosphere, riders giving their absolute all.

 

I'd pay double quite happily. In fact I pay way more than that, I travel from another country JUST for the playoffs.

My point was that football will never use play offs to decide champions.Whoever wins the league is rightly called the champions.Promotion and relegation play offs are a different thing entirely.

 

There are many countries around the world that use playoffs to decide their champions in football, that's without talking about Champions League etc of course.

RU fans have the same arguments, I've copied some of them in the past. The qualifier and cup format works financially in RU mainly due to the 80,000+ that turn up for the finals, compared to the 6,000 for speedway.

 

We all know your views on the play-offs. Indeed some of the points you raise I agree with.

 

Why does every major speedway nation have play-offs if they are so financially damaging?

 

If the answer is 'tv' then why are leagues that aren't televised also operating a play off system?

 

What is your view on why the promoters across the speedway world vote them in?

[waiheke1]

My point was that football will never use play offs to decide champions.Whoever wins the league is rightly called the champions.Promotion and relegation play offs are a different thing entirely.

Champions League?