Shockster Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 I'm neutral on this with regards to team preferences. Yes, it would have been better if Belle Vue could have fielded a full team. However, it's not exactly Wolves fault that Thorssell is out is it. So Fricke missing actually seems a fair result to me. If I were BV I would definitely use RR as likely to score more than any guest available. I think the outcome is 50/50 and may the best team on the night win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 I have a lot of sympathy with the views expressed by B.V 72. It is bad enough that we have to race without Fricke, during his spell out injured r/r at home produced about 7 or 8 points, whereas Fricke on his current form is worth at least 11/12. We are already going to be 2/3 points worse off because of the injury to Smith and combined that is going to make it very difficult to claw back the 13 point deficit. Wolves are without Thorssell but I think it very likely that r/r will cover the points he was likely to get. The rearranged date is also damaging the Colts who will go into their play off semi final without their top 4 riders. The two injuries they have to accept but the loss of Bewley and Shuttleworth is ridiculous. They have fought hard all season to get into the play offs and now have their chance of progress to the final put at serious risk through no fault of their own. Racing on Friday, presumably to pander to BT but I suspect we shall never know if the powers that be actually spoke to them to see if the option of racing the semi final on Monday and the final on Wednesday and the following Monday was a possibility, has seriously affected the credibility of the competition in both the PL and NL. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me wolfie Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 I have a lot of sympathy with the views expressed by B.V 72. It is bad enough that we have to race without Fricke, during his spell out injured r/r at home produced about 7 or 8 points, whereas Fricke on his current form is worth at least 11/12. We are already going to be 2/3 points worse off because of the injury to Smith and combined that is going to make it very difficult to claw back the 13 point deficit. Wolves are without Thorssell but I think it very likely that r/r will cover the points he was likely to get. The rearranged date is also damaging the Colts who will go into their play off semi final without their top 4 riders. The two injuries they have to accept but the loss of Bewley and Shuttleworth is ridiculous. They have fought hard all season to get into the play offs and now have their chance of progress to the final put at serious risk through no fault of their own. Racing on Friday, presumably to pander to BT but I suspect we shall never know if the powers that be actually spoke to them to see if the option of racing the semi final on Monday and the final on Wednesday and the following Monday was a possibility, has seriously affected the credibility of the competition in both the PL and NL. Surely Shuttleworth can't guest for the Aces when his team (the Colts) are riding? I would have thought he would be more beneficial in the Colts team anyway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Surely Shuttleworth can't guest for the Aces when his team (the Colts) are riding? I would have thought he would be more beneficial in the Colts team anywayA rider can miss an NL fixture for any reason... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob B Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 I expect BT thought Poole would be in the final, was always consecutive Mondays. The last 2 years the final was Monday & Wednesday same week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 So what happens if Belle Vue can’t stage the meeting on Friday because of the weather? They have to forfeit a potential place in the final? That is stupid in the extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me wolfie Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 A rider can miss an NL fixture for any reason... Sorry didn't realise that but would a different guest be likely to score any less? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 I think if it had gone ahead last night we would have pulled it back but now Wolves will definitely go through as I think they will utilise r/r better than us, also with the ludicrous state the Colts now find themselves in I find myself not really caring what happens, just turn up tomorrow and hope theres good racing and roll on the end of the season, with all the guests, r/r etc weve seen this season I for one need that break and hope by some miracle next season sees the powers that be actually make some radical changes that will turn round the fortunes of the sport. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 So what happens if Belle Vue can’t stage the meeting on Friday because of the weather? They have to forfeit a potential place in the final? That is stupid in the extreme. Sounds like BSPA logic to me. If it's in the rule book, then so it must be ( unless someone overlooks it at the wrong moment ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Sorry didn't realise that but would a different guest be likely to score any less? It is no given Greaves will beat Shuttleworth at the NSS, in fact I'd be delighted if he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 (edited) Never thought I would say this but I'm pretty pissed off about the whole scenario. Been supporting the Aces since 1954 (yes,really!) but now the sport is being ruined by all this petty squabbling about rules that you need a computer to understand (and then easily get it wrong). Seven riders versus seven. Where did it all go wrong? Yes I'll be there on Friday/Saturday/which day? to support the Aces..................but if I'm getting disillusioned about things how many fringe supporters are drifting away from the sport? Something needs to change. There you go... another one. When you lose patience... keeping up with all the silly rules, some of the point in attending speedway goes West. A long-time fan, another one, disillusioned. Used to be a time when speedway fans died before ever thinking of walking away. This winter, there must be a drastic shake-up. Mustn't there? Also, BT Sport, after two rain-offs already, may be a little cautious of throwing decent money away, setting up cameras and the like for the second leg Belle Vue v. Wolves. SKY used to do it, got burned, got wise, and then we now have BT. Edited September 28, 2017 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me wolfie Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 There you go... another one. When you lose patience... keeping up with all the silly rules, some of the point in attending speedway goes West. A long-time fan, another one, disillusioned. Used to be a time when speedway fans died before ever thinking of walking away. This winter, there must be a drastic shake-up. Mustn't there? Also, BT Sport, after two rain-offs already, may be a little cautious of throwing decent money away, setting up cameras and the like for the second leg Belle Vue v. Wolves. SKY used to do it, got burned, got wise, and then we now have BT. There's already live football and rugby scheduled on all 3 BT channels so I doubt it will be on anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob B Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 It is no given Greaves will beat Shuttleworth at the NSS, in fact I'd be delighted if he did. I doubt Shuttleworth will be riding, I presume he will ride for the Colts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 (edited) Can't be a random choice of dates must have been agreed with the clubs, I wouldn't mind the 2nd leg away, we have done it 4 times and won 3 of these, best team wins every time It will be interesting to find out who chose a wed. Edited September 28, 2017 by A ORLOV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perton Wolf Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 I think if it had gone ahead last night we would have pulled it back but now Wolves will definitely go through as I think they will utilise r/r better than us, also with the ludicrous state the Colts now find themselves in I find myself not really caring what happens, just turn up tomorrow and hope theres good racing and roll on the end of the season, with all the guests, r/r etc weve seen this season I for one need that break and hope by some miracle next season sees the powers that be actually make some radical changes that will turn round the fortunes of the sport. Agree, I probably won't bother with a season ticket next season at Wolves which I've had for the past 2 years, there's just too many meetings with an unrealistic number of Guests and R/R. Rather pick and choose my meetings where there are actually full teams on display. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 (edited) If 18.10.1 said.... If a rider is representing their FMN in an FIM Speedway Championship, irrespective of the rider’s MA, a choice of Guest (if permitted by Art 18.10) or Absent Rider Replacement facility (if permitted by Art 18.10) is available. you would have a point, but it doesn't. Would it help if the rule 18.10.1 was written like this.... If a rider is representing their FMN in an FIM Speedway Championship, irrespective of the rider’s MA, a choice of Guest or Absent Rider Replacement facility (unless there is more than one absent rider and rr is used for the other absent rider or the missing rider is a reserve) is available. If a rider is absent and his average is 4 or less there is no facility at all, no guest or rr, unless he is representing their FMN in an FIM Speedway Championship. Lambert is in the same u21 meeting as Fricke, Harris is riding for his cl team. I'd go with King who has only had one dodgy meeting at Belle Vue or L Bjerre who was very good for Leicester when they won at Belle Vue but not quite as good (but still okay) when guesting for us a few days later. I understand what you are saying and I'm sure that's what they meant.. the wording is wrong though. This is what it should say... If a rider is representing their FMN in an FIM Speedway Championship, irrespective of the rider’s MA, a choice of Guest or (if permitted by Art 18.10) Absent Rider Replacement facility is available By placing the 'if permitted' in front of the Absent rider Replacement you are specifically saying that just the RR is subject to Art 18.10.. which it is. By placing it after it can very easily be interpreted that the 'permitted by Art 18.10' refers to both the Guest and RR. Anyway, personally no objections against a guest I just wish someone would proof read the rule book and tidy it up so these issues don't arise. I hadn't checked the other fixtures with regards to Lambert/Harris etc, thanks for that. You'd prefer King or Lasse Bjerre over RR then? Edited September 28, 2017 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERACE Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Just hope this is on, on Friday and then we can have rightful finalists. If wolves go through due to a rain off then this year's title is the phoney championship. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me wolfie Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Just hope this is on, on Friday and then we can have rightful finalists. If wolves go through due to a rain off then this year's title is the phoney championship. I don't think anyone's actually said that's the case have they? Forecast is pretty good for afternoon and evening so needn't worry anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 TBF, I'd argue Hans' team isn't in the play-offs (they were, they're not now) and thus he is eligible to guest according to the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 TBF, I'd argue Hans' team isn't in the play-offs (they were, they're not now) and thus he is eligible to guest according to the rules. Doesn't matter. They were in the play-offs, as such he can't guest in the play-offs. There's some poorly worded rules in the rulebook, that one is straight forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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