In My View By Phil Rising

[steve roberts]

People who think that a club's speedway income is purely down to fan attendance, should think again.

 

Whether the club owns its own stadium or rents, costs will differ. Local advertising and commercial income (local sponsorship) will often more than tip the balance of whether a club is financially successful or not.

 

A promoter once told me that they 'lose money as soon as they open the turnstiles'!!!

...and of course the money received during the one-off World Final era when held at Wembley/Bradford when the receipts were shared out amongst the tracks and kept many afloat. Of course this revenue was lost when the GP series kicked in something that the late John Berry always raised.

[moxey63]

WATCH just about every meeting on TV and would probably go to BV if I lived nearby Unfortunately, in Surrey, we are devoid of any local track let alone one that consistently serves up entertainment. So, yes, I am still interested in the sport and via Speedway Star have a vested interest in it.

 

In response to waytogo28, I would be very surprised if Doyle was receiving the sort of money he intimated.

 

Thanks Phil. So your views are in all honesty and they should carry some weight. Let's all hope they do!

[mikebv]

Four or five years ago a rider I know of guested for a then Elite League team at Number Seven....

 

He was an experienced second string in the PL..

 

His deal was a basic £600 and £100 a point for every point over four..

 

He scored four so just got his £600..

 

If thats a Number Seven deal then what were the rest on?

 

Wouldn't have thought those numbers have come down any since then..

 

Didn't the fast track lads get an agreed £450 per match minimum? That's £1800 for both FTR's each team would need to find to pay for the home and away match..

 

Approx 120 fans worth of income after tax just to pay the reserves?

 

In a crowd of at best at most tracks 1000 - 1200 or so.

 

And the FTR was brought in to reduce coats so how much would two of the old foreign experienced 4-5 point men reserves cost?

[TonyMac]

Four or five years ago a rider I know of guested for a then Elite League team at Number Seven....

 

He was an experienced second string in the PL..

 

His deal was a basic £600 and £100 a point for every point over four..

 

He scored four so just got his £600..

 

If thats a Number Seven deal then what were the rest on?

 

Wouldn't have thought those numbers have come down any since then..

 

Didn't the fast track lads get an agreed £450 per match minimum? That's £1800 for both FTR's each team would need to find to pay for the home and away match..

 

Approx 120 fans worth of income after tax just to pay the reserves?

 

In a crowd of at best at most tracks 1000 - 1200 or so.

 

And the FTR was brought in to reduce coats so how much would two of the old foreign experienced 4-5 point men reserves cost?

 

Utter madness that has only one outcome - unless the BSPA suddenly wake up, come to their senses and act fast.

[Fromafar]

Round about 2007/8 speaking to a rider who rode in what is now Championship as aHeat Leader and as a reserve in Elite League told me he was paid £80 a point and guarantee of 3pts scored in Elite League.He was on a sliding scale in Championship.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Fromafar

[TonyMac]

The joke is that riders are being paid far too much in relation to the crowd levels they 'attract', and yet the Speedway Riders' Association is toothless and, as far as I can see, non-existent.

 

Imagine how much tougher it could be for some promoters to survive now if the SRA still had a voice and wielded any sort of power to challenge the sport's UK governing bodies.

 

I recently interviewed Colin Gear, who ran the SRA from 1982 until 1991, for the next issue of Backtrack and it reminded us of all the different upheavals and controversies the riders' union became embroiled in back in the day . . . new safety measures (and that's one thing that definitely HAS improved in modern times) after the Denny Pyeatt fatality...tyre disputes...minimum NL pay rates (to which a number of promoters paid only lip service and found a way around the rules)...unpaid or late paid riders...Kenny Carter's feud with the Yanks (SRA was asked to intervene)...introduction of drug-testing, etc, etc.

[waytogo28]

My post was only to see if there was some certainty about current pay rates that could publicly be accepted so that we can discuss how it could be funded with mostly falling crowds. I didn't think that Doyle was really getting £500 a point as I was told that around £200 a point was common ( with some pluses as agreed individually. ) I can't see how tracks can pay much more than £200 a point in the Premiership ( perhaps less in the Championship ). At that rate a good rider scoring 400 points a season is receiving £80,000. Can any expect to earn more from the sport in the UK, as they also have sponsors?

[The White Knight]

Great post...

 

Performance Related Pay....

 

Works very well!..

 

Many Promoters often bemoan..

 

"A losing team loses fans and winning at home is key to crowd levels"..

 

Well pay your riders accordingly...

 

A win bonus and a bonus for fan base...

 

eg No1 wants say £200 a point then its agreed he gets it only if they win, his basic is £150 a point and he gets his bonus paid on victory..

 

eg2, A club I presume bases it's budget on expected income based on previous average crowd level info, therefore, if the average being used is 1000 fans then agree with the riders that if they get this figure to 1200 they then share 100 fans worth of attendance money.

 

And every 100 further increase in attendance delivered the same deal..

 

It would maybe even bond the team together as a collective which must be hard at present to do with the riders riding for so many different teams..

Great Post - I would only argue with one point - surely you mean Clubs - because with all the different Riders riding for this Club and that Club you certainly can't call them Teams in the true sense of the word.

 

...and of course the money received during the one-off World Final era when held at Wembley/Bradford when the receipts were shared out amongst the tracks and kept many afloat. Of course this revenue was lost when the GP series kicked in something that the late John Berry always raised.

.. out of 'Likes' again. :rolleyes:

 

I totally agree steve. It must have cost British Speedway a small fortune when they lost the old World Final money. Now they have lost the SKY money too.

 

Seem to be good at losing money - don't they? :sad:

[Jonny the spud]

Four or five years ago a rider I know of guested for a then Elite League team at Number Seven....

 

He was an experienced second string in the PL..

 

His deal was a basic £600 and £100 a point for every point over four..

 

He scored four so just got his £600..

 

If thats a Number Seven deal then what were the rest on?

 

Wouldn't have thought those numbers have come down any since then..

 

Didn't the fast track lads get an agreed £450 per match minimum? That's £1800 for both FTR's each team would need to find to pay for the home and away match..

 

Approx 120 fans worth of income after tax just to pay the reserves?

 

In a crowd of at best at most tracks 1000 - 1200 or so.

 

And the FTR was brought in to reduce coats so how much would two of the old foreign experienced 4-5 point men reserves cost?

FTR's on £450 a match minimum ?

 

 

news to me !

[Bald Bloke]

Four or five years ago a rider I know of guested for a then Elite League team at Number Seven....

 

He was an experienced second string in the PL..

 

His deal was a basic £600 and £100 a point for every point over four..

 

He scored four so just got his £600..

 

​Probably about right.The rider might of got a bit over the odds,being as the team needed someone.

 

If thats a Number Seven deal then what were the rest on?

 

Wouldn't have thought those numbers have come down any since then..

 

Didn't the fast track lads get an agreed £450 per match minimum?

 

​I would of guessed nearer £300,but as I said,only a guess.

 

That's £1800 for both FTR's each team would need to find to pay for the home and away match..

 

Approx 120 fans worth of income after tax just to pay the reserves?

 

In a crowd of at best at most tracks 1000 - 1200 or so.

And the FTR was brought in to reduce coats so how much would two of the old foreign experienced 4-5 point men reserves cost?

 

​I would of guessed about the same,or a tad less than the rider you mentioned was on back then....

 

​I might be miles out.Each rider has their own deal I suppose.I do find it interesting,this wages thing.But respect it's the riders buisness.

 

[mikebv]

FTR's on £450 a match minimum ?

 

 

news to me !

I am sure you would know more than me JTS..

 

I am sure also though that there was a minimum sum published at the time as to what these lads could expect to earn..

 

Maybe my number is wrong but I do remember thinking when I saw the press release that the number published was considerably more than the £10 a point (allegedly) the same lads got in the NL.. !

 

I seem to think it was announced in part to answer back critics of the scheme who suggested it was nothing more than a money saving plan..

 

As I say mate..

 

You live 'the dream' so you will know more than me..

Edited September 9, 2017 by mikebv

[Lord Skid]

So Rider A is on £300 a point, who agreed to the deal, oh yeah, the stupid Promoter who can't afford it, nobody else to blame but themselves.

[Vince]

I'm a fair bit out of date knowing wages but seems to me that some of the figures posted are either way out or things have changed radically

[mikebv]

So Rider A is on £300 a point, who agreed to the deal, oh yeah, the stupid Promoter who can't afford it, nobody else to blame but themselves.

The same Promoters who agree to the team strengths at the start of the season. Then their teams start getting beat heavily so crowds drop meaning they have to bring in different riders who knowing the crap the Promoters are in name their price as demand massively exceeds supply...

 

Making the signing of a 'Top Rider' so vitally important to success via the use of averages means they will always have the upper hand in negotiations...

 

When a rider can deliver between 12 and 15 nightly to your score when you need 46 to win they can pretty much name what they want...

 

Almost 33% of a succesful teams score delivered by one man...

 

Maybe making them less of a 'must have' will reduce salaries?

Edited September 9, 2017 by mikebv

[Trees]

May be they need to help themselves by allowing a little give on averages.

[Humphrey Appleby]

As far as I am concerned all riders are vastly underpaid although that doesn't mean they can expect what isn't there. However, considering that most have to fund their own equipment and transport, face increasing insurance, know that every time they go to the tapes it could result in serious or even life-threatening injuries or worse and more often than not for a relative pittance earns my admiration.

As with anything in life, you're worth what revenue you generate for your employer, and what the industry can afford. Sure speedway is quite a dangerous profession, but there are plenty of others where people risk serious injury and worse. Riders know what they're getting into, and there's many amateur motor sport competitors that take similar risks for the love of doing the sport rather than reward.

 

Speedway does differ from other motor sports in that takes place all week rather than at the weekend when spectators have time to go and watch, and when it would be easier for riders to combine riding with another job, but perhaps that's where it's been going wrong. The SGP isn't held in the middle of the week, is it?

Maybe making them less of a 'must have' will reduce salaries?

The only thing that will reduce salaries is when the sport either finally goes bust, or promoters finally agree to work collectively rather than trying to shaft each other.

 

You could have a common pool of riders paid centrally, allocated to teams in accordance with an agreed mechanism that ensures reasonably competitive teams, and promoters then charged for their use. These are the sorts of solutions that need to be advocated by those in the speedway industry, not statements of the bleeding obvious.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Humphrey Appleby

[SCB]

SORRY but I cannot agree with most of that. As far as I am concerned all riders are vastly underpaid although that doesn't mean they can expect what isn't there. However, considering that most have to fund their own equipment and transport, face increasing insurance, know that every time they go to the tapes it could result in serious or even life-threatening injuries or worse and more often than not for a relative pittance earns my admiration. Without them there wouldn't be speedway and as we see now, fewer and fewer youngsters are coming through the ranks in places like Denmark and Sweden because a career in speedway simply isn't that attractive.

 

Your comments about brain surgeons is particularly insulting. I know of one young rider who can earn between £800 and £1000 a week as a plumber. He knows he will never be a World Champion but he loves speedway and tries desperately to combine the two. But it isn't easy and if he had to make a choice on purely financial reasons he would quit. One down and many more in a similar position.

No way can a plumber earn £1000. But let's assume you're right. This young rider does speedway because he loves it, that's nice. I watch speedway becuase I love it, I spend hours a week updating speedway-stats.co.uk because I enjoy it, I spend my weekends taking apart and rebuilding cars because I love it. Do you know what those 3 hobbies earn me? Nothing. In fact between the three of them they cost me a damn fortune. Be it he petrol and entrance fee for speedway, or the Sky and BT sport subscription. Then there's the £12 a month I pay for hosting speedway-stats (not a lot really but it's still a cost) or the frankly £1000s a year I spend on cars.

 

If these riders love it, why the need to milk the sport for every penny?

 

While speedway riders think they're capable of earning 52k a year in another job they're going to moan they're underpaid. News flash, the average person in the U.K earns 26k.

Edited September 10, 2017 by SCB

[Triple.H.]

No way can a plumber earn £1000. But let's assume you're right. This young rider does speedway because he loves it, that's nice. I watch speedway becuase I love it, I spend hours a week updating speedway-stats.co.uk because I enjoy it, I spend my weekends taking apart and rebuilding cars because I love it. Do you know what those 3 hobbies earn me? Nothing. In fact between the three of them they cost me a damn fortune. Be it he petrol and entrance fee for speedway, or the Sky and BT sport subscription. Then there's the £12 a month I pay for hosting speedway-stats (not a lot really but it's still a cost) or the frankly £1000s a year I spend on cars.

 

If these riders love it, why the need to milk the sport for every penny?

 

While speedway riders think they're capable of earning 52k a year in another job they're going to moan they're underpaid. News flash, the average person in the U.K earns 26k.

SCB

I'm not a plumber but I know plenty, most take more than £1K home. Admittedly the market is getting flooded with them ( no pun intended ) nowadays. But experienced plumbers in Oxfordshire are on bloody good money

[PHILIPRISING]

SCB

I'm not a plumber but I know plenty, most take more than £1K home. Admittedly the market is getting flooded with them ( no pun intended ) nowadays. But experienced plumbers in Oxfordshire are on bloody good money

AND in Surrey ... electricians too. Boyfriend of my niece has shunned uni to start an apprenticeship as an electrician. Pretty sure that in a couple of years he will be earning top dollar and with no debt. Talked him out of speedway

Edited September 10, 2017 by PHILIPRISING

[SteveLyric2]

For what its worth, back in 2001/02 when Tony Rickardsson rode for Poole, he was on a basic of £180 per point. And then there were the add-ons..........!!

 

 

Incidentally how many clubs have actually closed down in the recent past through losing money? rather than any other reasons eg track availability etc?