In My View By Phil Rising

[Stoke Potter]

It's an interesting point about the demands of today's riders.

I'd question if any of them have actually ridden in the era when speedway clubs were viable.

Any clubs been viable in the last 10-20 years? Poole? Anyone else..?

[The White Knight]

It's an interesting point about the demands of today's riders.

I'd question if any of them have actually ridden in the era when speedway clubs were viable.

Any clubs been viable in the last 10-20 years? Poole? Anyone else..?

A very good question that.

 

I await the answer with interest.

[f-s-p]

It's an interesting point about the demands of today's riders.

I'd question if any of them have actually ridden in the era when speedway clubs were viable.

Any clubs been viable in the last 10-20 years? Poole? Anyone else..?

There has to be more because there are more clubs than Poole still in the game and regurarly new "promoters" buy clubs to come in.

[The White Knight]

There has to be more because there are more clubs than Poole still in the game and regurarly new "promoters" buy clubs to come in.

Perhaps those Businessmen who do come in are prepared to stand the losses. Fund the losses from their Businesses.

[Vincent Blachshadow]

I feel that part of the reason the wishes some fans have aren’t played out is they show little sign they would bend to change, even if it was the change they wished for.

 

Not to push at a wound, but I doubt many people would alter or bend their business model in the hope they might attract fans who haven’t attended for 5 + years – I do understand why it gets to a stage where the sport might feel it’s time to cut such groups off and move in other directions.

 

I am highly sceptical of the idea the removal of Play Offs and Double Points tactical riders puts 100 + fans into stadiums every week

 

I still feel that those are just the type of people that would swell the crowds. It's far easier to get somebody that liked (possibly still likes) the sport back through the turnstyles of speedway tracks than entice somebody who, for whatever reason, hasn't bothered about it so far in their lives. An alteration they know nothing about isn't going to get somebody who previously didn't give a toss through the gate. If you can't get those that care about the sport to attend what chance do you have with those that don't care.

 

I believe most newbies are introduced to the sport by current devotees and most youngsters are offspring or grand-offspring of speedway fans.

 

The other week I visited the home of an old friend (through speedway) who hadn't been to a speedway match in this country for a few years (yet still attends meetings on trips abroad) but still has a look at this forum, because I was off to a meeting fairly close to his home the next day. Whilst I was there he lit his barbie and invited a neighbour along. We had a chat about speedway and he agreed to come with me and Mrs B the next day, as did his wife. The neighbour? Not interested, and despite what we said, he still thinks its a dirty, smelly, noisy pastime that takes place in antiquated stadia (we obviously weren't in Manchester) and he has no interest in watching four blokes on motorbikes going round an oval track and, as everybody knows, first onto the back straight invariably wins.

 

I have every confidence that the ex-attendee will be going along to a few matches next year, all being well.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Vincent Blackshadow

[steve roberts]

If riders with an inflated view of their own value demand to be paid more that current crowd levels sensibly allow, promoters should respond by offering them an incentive based on attendances. 'You ride for X when crowd levels are less than 700, 'Y' if they are between 700 and 1,000, and your pay increases to 'Z' more if the figure exceeds 1,000.

 

It's not widely known that King's Lynn had this amicable deal with Terry Betts throughout his Saddlebow Road heyday. When Bettsy first agreed to join Lynn in 1966 (when they first became BL1 members after a year on open licence), he had the foresight and belief in his ability to put a price on his worth by riding for standard points and start money PLUS bonuses based on the Lynn attendance.

 

He might have been a flop and not benefited at all from this private arrangement with his employers. But as it turned out he literally became THE Super Star the fans and the management adored.

 

Terry was rewarded accordingly for doing more than any other KL rider to attract good (profitable) crowds for Maury Littlechild & Cyril Crane over more than a decade. In turn, they were happy to reward him for his efforts and pulling power. A win-win arrangement.

 

It's a very simple equation: promoters should only pay riders what the speedway club can afford. To pay over the odds when crowds are dwindling is a path to financial ruin.

 

It's no good a rider, including current Premiership number ones, making unreasonable demands on promoters based on how good they THINK they are, and how they need to finance a team of mechanics, three bikes, fancy vans and what have you. Truth is, for all their admirable bravery, they are only as good as the number of people who pay to watch them. Around 100,000 fans come to watch Ronaldo play at Real Madrid. How many pay to watch the best in British speedway?

 

(Oh, and Bettsy ran a successful garage business alongside his racing career as a British League No.1, England star, 2 x GB World Cup winner and World Pairs champion.)

Excellent post!

[f-s-p]

Perhaps those Businessmen who do come in are prepared to stand the losses. Fund the losses from their Businesses.

Might be some truth in that. But maybe the people that come in, having seen the books and all, having a vision instead of your "it's just downhill and nice and negative cos actually I know jackrubbish" like people, there might still be a future if and when things actually get done?

[Fromafar]

in the uk what would be top whack points money for a rider these days ?

Dont know,but think you might get a shock if somebody did tell.

[mikebv]

If riders with an inflated view of their own value demand to be paid more that current crowd levels sensibly allow, promoters should respond by offering them an incentive based on attendances. 'You ride for X when crowd levels are less than 700, 'Y' if they are between 700 and 1,000, and your pay increases to 'Z' more if the figure exceeds 1,000.

 

It's not widely known that King's Lynn had this amicable deal with Terry Betts throughout his Saddlebow Road heyday. When Bettsy first agreed to join Lynn in 1966 (when they first became BL1 members after a year on open licence), he had the foresight and belief in his ability to put a price on his worth by riding for standard points and start money PLUS bonuses based on the Lynn attendance.

 

He might have been a flop and not benefited at all from this private arrangement with his employers. But as it turned out he literally became THE Super Star the fans and the management adored.

 

Terry was rewarded accordingly for doing more than any other KL rider to attract good (profitable) crowds for Maury Littlechild & Cyril Crane over more than a decade. In turn, they were happy to reward him for his efforts and pulling power. A win-win arrangement.

 

It's a very simple equation: promoters should only pay riders what the speedway club can afford. To pay over the odds when crowds are dwindling is a path to financial ruin.

 

It's no good a rider, including current Premiership number ones, making unreasonable demands on promoters based on how good they THINK they are, and how they need to finance a team of mechanics, three bikes, fancy vans and what have you. Truth is, for all their admirable bravery, they are only as good as the number of people who pay to watch them. Around 100,000 fans come to watch Ronaldo play at Real Madrid. How many pay to watch the best in British speedway?

 

(Oh, and Bettsy ran a successful garage business alongside his racing career as a British League No.1, England star, 2 x GB World Cup winner and World Pairs champion.)

Great post...

 

Performance Related Pay....

 

Works very well!..

 

Many Promoters often bemoan..

 

"A losing team loses fans and winning at home is key to crowd levels"..

 

Well pay your riders accordingly...

 

A win bonus and a bonus for fan base...

 

eg No1 wants say £200 a point then its agreed he gets it only if they win, his basic is £150 a point and he gets his bonus paid on victory..

 

eg2, A club I presume bases it's budget on expected income based on previous average crowd level info, therefore, if the average being used is 1000 fans then agree with the riders that if they get this figure to 1200 they then share 100 fans worth of attendance money.

 

And every 100 further increase in attendance delivered the same deal..

 

It would maybe even bond the team together as a collective which must be hard at present to do with the riders riding for so many different teams..

Edited September 9, 2017 by mikebv

[racers and royals]

Great post...

 

Performance Related Pay....

 

Works very well!..

 

Many Promoters often bemoan..

 

"A losing team loses fans and winning at home is key to crowd levels"..

 

Well pay your riders accordingly...

 

A win bonus and a bonus for fan base...

 

eg No1 wants say £200 a point then its agreed he gets it only if they win, his basic is £150 a point and he gets his bonus paid on victory..

 

eg2, A club I presume bases it's budget on expected income based on previous average crowd level info, therefore, if the average being used is 1000 fans then agree with the riders that if they get this figure to 1200 they then share 100 fans worth of attendance money.

 

And every 100 further increase in attendance delivered the same deal..

 

It would maybe even bond the team together as a collective which must be hard at present to do with the riders riding for so many different teams..

I can just imagine it- the riders pay is part dependant on a crowd of 1000 plus. 1st week "sorry boys 980" 2nd week "sorry boys 970" etc etc

[mikebv]

I can just imagine it- the riders pay is part dependant on a crowd of 1000 plus. 1st week "sorry boys 980" 2nd week "sorry boys 970" etc etc

You would have to rely on the integrity of the Promoter obviously..

 

Like any business that runs PRP...

 

I am sure integrity won't be a problem as its Speedway..😁

Edited September 9, 2017 by mikebv

[waytogo28]

As far as I know the top points money in the UK Premiership is £200 a point plus those guarantees that no-one does want to talk about but in the days of Sky TV money was said to be, for example for Iversen at KL was £1,500. Meaning that for a maximum he could take home £4,000 to £5,000.

[racers and royals]

As far as I know the top points money in the UK Premiership is £200 a point plus those guarantees that no-one does want to talk about but in the days of Sky TV money was said to be, for example for Iversen at KL was £1,500. Meaning that for a maximum he could take home £4,000 to £5,000.

I`m pretty sure Doyle would not get his leg over his bike for £200 a point !!!!!

Guarantees are not added to points money- they are the money the rider gets paid if he earns less than the guarantee

Edited September 9, 2017 by racers and royals

[greyhoundp]

People always seem to forget, when we talk about 1000 or 1500 people through the gate this has to cover home and away costs, if said rider scores 12 points at home, and 10 points away thats 22 points money the rider has earned, all taken from the 1 home meetings gate money.

However the fact remains, promoters simply should not be paying out what is not coming in, if riders dont like it tough.

[SteveLyric2]

People who think that a club's speedway income is purely down to fan attendance, should think again.

 

Whether the club owns its own stadium or rents, costs will differ. Local advertising and commercial income (local sponsorship) will often more than tip the balance of whether a club is financially successful or not.

 

A promoter once told me that they 'lose money as soon as they open the turnstiles'!!!

Edited September 9, 2017 by Skidder1

[PHILIPRISING]

I`m pretty sure Doyle would not get his leg over his bike for £200 a point !!!!!

Guarantees are not added to points money- they are the money the rider gets paid if he earns less than the guarantee

WHICH is essentially where the Sky money went and why tracks who have previously received that money will have to rewrite their budgets for 2018.

[waytogo28]

I`m pretty sure Doyle would not get his leg over his bike for £200 a point !!!!!

Guarantees are not added to points money- they are the money the rider gets paid if he earns less than the guarantee

 

So we can assume that Doyle is being paid £500 per point at Swindon currently? Including the guarantee or is that a straight £4 - 5k guarantee ( match fee ) regardless of points scored? Other "lesser" riders are getting paid £200 a point in the premiership - do you think? Other than the tax man concerns, I cannot see why all riders and promotions are so very coy about outgoings on riders payments - while at that same time pleading poverty to fans. We are all in it together except that promoters lose more money ( and the remaining fans lose their favourite sport).

[moxey63]

It is a refreshing read by Philip Rising, but that because agree with what he says. But you have got to persuade the powers that be and the fans who think what speedway offers today is brilliant. To long-standing supporters the Golden Double is regarding ridiculous; but how will newcomers take to the old tac sub if it is recalled and it is new to them? Fine line here.

 

It would be interesting to know if Philip Rising would still be interested in the sport if he wasn't writing about it. He seems to have the views of many who have stopped attending.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

 

So we can assume that Doyle is being paid £500 per point at Swindon currently? Including the guarantee or is that a straight £4 - 5k guarantee ( match fee ) regardless of points scored? Other "lesser" riders are getting paid £200 a point in the premiership - do you think? Other than the tax man concerns, I cannot see why all riders and promotions are so very coy about outgoings on riders payments - while at that same time pleading poverty to fans. We are all in it together except that promoters lose more money ( and the remaining fans lose their favourite sport).

I think it's more of a private matter what riders get paid more than anything else, if a rider wants to tell people how much he earns then fine but I feel it's not right for anybody else but as much as the outgoings for riders are substantial a lot of them do make good money or at least decent money but as been said many times it's not that they don't deserve it and more it's just not there anymore , reading Workington's piece in the star , they are struggling to get crowds of 500 , that is very alarming to everybody but it won't even register with riders , I do sympathise with the riders to a point but why are they not asking for costs to be cut ? Everytime they are offered something to cut costs they don't want to know because in their head they will be somehow at a disadvantage and they can't see that in the long run they will be the one who gains , Steve worralls response was this is 2017 not 1967 the sport has moved on , has it ? Cause as far as I can see it's gone backwards Edited September 9, 2017 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[PHILIPRISING]

It is a refreshing read by Philip Rising, but that because agree with what he says. But you have got to persuade the powers that be and the fans who think what speedway offers today is brilliant. To long-standing supporters the Golden Double is regarding ridiculous; but how will newcomers take to the old tac sub if it is recalled and it is new to them? Fine line here.

 

It would be interesting to know if Philip Rising would still be interested in the sport if he wasn't writing about it. He seems to have the views of many who have stopped attending.

WATCH just about every meeting on TV and would probably go to BV if I lived nearby Unfortunately, in Surrey, we are devoid of any local track let alone one that consistently serves up entertainment. So, yes, I am still interested in the sport and via Speedway Star have a vested interest in it.

 

In response to waytogo28, I would be very surprised if Doyle was receiving the sort of money he intimated.