In My View By Phil Rising

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

And a degree in semantics

be honest how many of you have just googled the meaning of this word 😉

[uk_martin]

i disagree - it should be a body independent of the promoters

Is there a speedway-mad equivalent of Kerry Packer or Barry Hearn lurking in the shadows keen (foolish) enough to grab the sport by the throat and kick the useless members of the BSPA into touch and herald a new revolution . . .?

If there was a Barry Hearn type ...

Can't believe how fans still hang their hats onto fantasies like this...can someone who advocates independent fantasy promoters please explain:

1. Who appoints these independent people

2. Who they have in mind to do the job

3. What the experience and expertise in speedway that an independent person has to have to be of benefit to the sport

4. Who pays these independent people and how payment is made to avoid the "he who pays the piper" accusations that will follow if not done correctly

5. How much should an Barry Hearn type of character be paid to make it worthwhile for them to take on the job? Bear in mind that these people didn't become millionaires out of altruism or charity.

6. Who gets rid of independent people who prove to be bad at their job?

[keepturningleft]

There is a feature in the current edition of Classic Speedway about riders from yesteryear and their other jobs.

[speedibee]

Can't believe how fans still hang their hats onto fantasies like this...can someone who advocates independent fantasy promoters please explain:

1. Who appoints these independent people

2. Who they have in mind to do the job

3. What the experience and expertise in speedway that an independent person has to have to be of benefit to the sport

4. Who pays these independent people and how payment is made to avoid the "he who pays the piper" accusations that will follow if not done correctly

5. How much should an Barry Hearn type of character be paid to make it worthwhile for them to take on the job? Bear in mind that these people didn't become millionaires out of altruism or charity.

6. Who gets rid of independent people who prove to be bad at their job?

A Barry Hearn character should not be paid , If they are worth their salt then they will be confident enough in their own ability to get paid on results .. the SCB was set up to be an independent body .and Initialy it was ..SCB officials were not allowed contact with promoters or riders ,over the years the SCB has just become an offshoot of the BSPA , All riders have to buy an ACU permit to ride , and pay start fees to them to race abroad the promoters also have to pay to tun speedway under their auspices , THEY should provide an Independent jury to oversee disputes and penalties , otherwise what are we paying them for ?

[uk_martin]

DO you have a profession or a pipe dream?

 

Strictly speaking there are only FOUR "professions" - Cleical (Clergy), Medical, Legal, and arguably Military....everyone else has a Trade.

 

Yes I know that nowadays earning a wage or a salary likes to think of themselves as a "professional" but IMHO, sports people and tradesmen should be proud to be just that.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military

A Barry Hearn character should not be paid , If they are worth their salt then they will be confident enough in their own ability to get paid on results ..

 

Here's an idea for you then...Take this concept, together with the financial and performance results of speedway for the last 3 years onto BBC's "Dragons Den". See if you can persuade Peter Jones, or any of his co-horts to work for nothing based on future profits of a languishing sport that they know nothing about. See how you get on. Let me know when the BBC are broadcasting the show, and I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

[Vince]

It's easy to say most riders should be riding as near amateurs but the practical side of that is very difficult.

 

Just how many jobs will allow you time off to ride Speedway these days? Working hours have changed a great deal and even making home matches will need at least half a day off for the majority. While you might be able to book a proportion of those off to match the fixture list there are always a number of re-arranged fixtures because of rain offs etc. Then there will be a number of days off for injury for many and not many employers will be willing to work around the life of a Speedway rider.

 

The expenses are considerably more than riding MX at club level when you consider I could (and used to) practice and or race every weekend of the year without ever needing to travel for much more than an hour from home. Doing the 6 1/2 hours each way to Armadale for a rain off costs a lot of money when you get a few pence a mile. MX for the majority is a weekend hobby that you choose where and when to ride on a bike that doesn't have to be at it's best if you've not had time that week. Speedway is a commitment to be where and when the team needs you to be with properly prepared equipment.

 

Comparing it to the old days and saying they were amateur is more than a bit misleading. Was talking to an ex rider only the other day and one who made it very nearly to the top of the tree. He is currently 60 so over 40 years ago when he started he could make more money riding as a junior in the second half than he could working for the week as an apprentice. There can't be many NL riders capable of matching that after expenses now let alone kids looking for a second half.

 

Jimmy Squibb who was a decent but never great rider was another who I spent hours talking to about the sport. He used to expect to earn at least 4 times what a lorry driver did annually ( lorry driver because transport was his business) and had spells where he was doing well and earning a lot more. Speedway gave him the financial security to start a decent sized haulage business, a rider at the same sort of level today would be breaking even with the odd year showing a small profit but not enough to live on off season.

be honest how many of you have just googled the meaning of this word

 

Shouldn't that be Googled?

[Rico]

I've watched all the "back to the future " films but all that happened when I drove my van down a street at 80mph in a thunder storm was I got a speeding ticket

 

Shakes head, if only you'd got it up to 88mph, it would have been a different outcome !

 

Rico

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

I feel that part of the reason the wishes some fans have aren’t played out is they show little sign they would bend to change, even if it was the change they wished for.

 

Not to push at a wound, but I doubt many people would alter or bend their business model in the hope they might attract fans who haven’t attended for 5 + years – I do understand why it gets to a stage where the sport might feel it’s time to cut such groups off and move in other directions.

 

I am highly sceptical of the idea the removal of Play Offs and Double Points tactical riders puts 100 + fans into stadiums every week

[daveallan81]

Maybe to illustrate how often the DU`s are riding, maybe someone(Arnie you are the perfect man for the job) could list the meetings ridden in the uk( and maybe guest bookings taken as well) and list total points scored for a number of riders.

Off the top of my head people like S Worrall. Cook,King,Bates,Wells.Barker,Grajczonek,Wright, Lawson,Morris,Howarth etc etc

because these boys are not riding for £50 a point !!!!!!!

 

I've used the averages from the SGB website 'Stat Attack' pages to come up with a rough guide. Guest appearances are not included. Riders who switched teams during the season have had their figures combined.

 

There are currently 32 riders doubling in the Premiership & Championship.

 

The top 10 by all points scored including bonus points:

Danny King 599 (564 + 35 from 57 meetings)

Rory Schlein 590 (551 + 39 from 56 meetings)

Nick Morris 532 (502 + 30 from 47 meetings)

Kyle Howarth 530 (486 + 44 from 54 meetings)

Josh Grajczonek 516 (496 + 20 from 51 meetings)

Steve Worrall 499 (464 + 35 from 49 meetings)

Craig Cook 488 (469 + 19 from 42 meetings)

Robert Lambert 480 (455 + 25 from 46 meetings)

Ricky Wells 466 (437 + 29 from 49 meetings)

Sam Masters 446 (427 + 19 from 45 meetings)

 

The top 11 by matches raced:

57 Danny KIng & Jack Smith

56 Rory Schlein

54 Kyle Howarth & Paul Starke

53 Lewis Kerr

51 Josh Grajczonek

50 Nathan Greaves

49 Steve Worrall & Ricky Wells & Charles Wright

[racers and royals]

 

I've used the averages from the SGB website 'Stat Attack' pages to come up with a rough guide. Guest appearances are not included. Riders who switched teams during the season have had their figures combined.

 

There are currently 32 riders doubling in the Premiership & Championship.

 

The top 10 by all points scored including bonus points:

Danny King 599 (564 + 35 from 57 meetings)

Rory Schlein 590 (551 + 39 from 56 meetings)

Nick Morris 532 (502 + 30 from 47 meetings)

Kyle Howarth 530 (486 + 44 from 54 meetings)

Josh Grajczonek 516 (496 + 20 from 51 meetings)

Steve Worrall 499 (464 + 35 from 49 meetings)

Craig Cook 488 (469 + 19 from 42 meetings)

Robert Lambert 480 (455 + 25 from 46 meetings)

Ricky Wells 466 (437 + 29 from 49 meetings)

Sam Masters 446 (427 + 19 from 45 meetings)

 

The top 11 by matches raced:

57 Danny KIng & Jack Smith

56 Rory Schlein

54 Kyle Howarth & Paul Starke

53 Lewis Kerr

51 Josh Grajczonek

50 Nathan Greaves

49 Steve Worrall & Ricky Wells & Charles Wright

Thanks Dave, at lets say £100 a point - there are some decent earnings from points money alone let alone Guarantees, signing on fees etc etc.

[uk_martin]

 

Shouldn't that be Googled?

No. Proper Nouns are capitalised, verbs are not.

[iris123]

 

 

 

See if you can persuade Peter Jones, or any of his co-horts to work for nothing based on future profits of a languishing sport that they know nothing about. See how you get on. Let me know when the BBC are broadcasting the show, and I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

But is that how to spell the word or is it some sort of clever way of getting 'horts' into the thread?

[tigerowl]

I feel that part of the reason the wishes some fans have aren’t played out is they show little sign they would bend to change, even if it was the change they wished for.

 

Not to push at a wound, but I doubt many people would alter or bend their business model in the hope they might attract fans who haven’t attended for 5 + years – I do understand why it gets to a stage where the sport might feel it’s time to cut such groups off and move in other directions.

 

I am highly sceptical of the idea the removal of Play Offs and Double Points tactical riders puts 100 + fans into stadiums every week

 

I think it is more about stopping the fans we have at the moment leaving.

 

Once the sport is stable and has credibility and identity, then we can hope to attract and keep new fans.

[ch958]

Can't believe how fans still hang their hats onto fantasies like this...can someone who advocates independent fantasy promoters please explain:

1. Who appoints these independent people

2. Who they have in mind to do the job

3. What the experience and expertise in speedway that an independent person has to have to be of benefit to the sport

4. Who pays these independent people and how payment is made to avoid the "he who pays the piper" accusations that will follow if not done correctly

5. How much should an Barry Hearn type of character be paid to make it worthwhile for them to take on the job? Bear in mind that these people didn't become millionaires out of altruism or charity.

6. Who gets rid of independent people who prove to be bad at their job?

 

 

so every time an idea is suggested you have to have an eight page document to explain the minutiae and mechanics of how it would work.

 

FWIW I would want a Hearn type who may turn the whole thing into a tacky circus. It may succeed by I wouldn't want to see it myself

Edited September 8, 2017 by ch958

[False dawn]

Barry Hearn was brought in to turn around the fortunes of snooker. The sport had begun to slip off the TV radar and was turning into something of a niche sport (stop me when this starts to sound familiar). Now I'm not saying the two situations are the same but there are similarities. It's ironic now that he has transformed the sport that the players are complaining they are too busy.

[SteveLyric2]

I might be imagining this but wasn't there talk at the start of the season of appointing an 'independent' Chief Executive of the BSPA??

[Red Flag]

I can't remember all the details so don't bother shooting me down, was it Connor Dwyer that said in a SS article recently that about 2 years ago he signed for Coventry Storm and packed up his job to concentrate on Speedway!!! Really?? Now he is still a reserve in the National League although steadily progressing, says it all I think

[ancient mariner]

THE DEAN MACHINE, on 08 Sept 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

I've watched all the "back to the future " films but all that happened when I drove my van down a street at 80mph in a thunder storm was I got a speeding ticket

 

 

Shakes head, if only you'd got it up to 88mph, it would have been a different outcome !

 

Rico

 

A ban?

Edited September 8, 2017 by ancient mariner

[ruckerroo]

in the uk what would be top whack points money for a rider these days ?

[TonyMac]

If riders with an inflated view of their own value demand to be paid more that current crowd levels sensibly allow, promoters should respond by offering them an incentive based on attendances. 'You ride for X when crowd levels are less than 700, 'Y' if they are between 700 and 1,000, and your pay increases to 'Z' more if the figure exceeds 1,000.

 

It's not widely known that King's Lynn had this amicable deal with Terry Betts throughout his Saddlebow Road heyday. When Bettsy first agreed to join Lynn in 1966 (when they first became BL1 members after a year on open licence), he had the foresight and belief in his ability to put a price on his worth by riding for standard points and start money PLUS bonuses based on the Lynn attendance.

 

He might have been a flop and not benefited at all from this private arrangement with his employers. But as it turned out he literally became THE Super Star the fans and the management adored.

 

Terry was rewarded accordingly for doing more than any other KL rider to attract good (profitable) crowds for Maury Littlechild & Cyril Crane over more than a decade. In turn, they were happy to reward him for his efforts and pulling power. A win-win arrangement.

 

It's a very simple equation: promoters should only pay riders what the speedway club can afford. To pay over the odds when crowds are dwindling is a path to financial ruin.

 

It's no good a rider, including current Premiership number ones, making unreasonable demands on promoters based on how good they THINK they are, and how they need to finance a team of mechanics, three bikes, fancy vans and what have you. Truth is, for all their admirable bravery, they are only as good as the number of people who pay to watch them. Around 100,000 fans come to watch Ronaldo play at Real Madrid. How many pay to watch the best in British speedway?

 

(Oh, and Bettsy ran a successful garage business alongside his racing career as a British League No.1, England star, 2 x GB World Cup winner and World Pairs champion.)

Edited September 8, 2017 by tmc