In My View By Phil Rising

[Odds On]

PHILIPRISING, on 20 Sept 2017 - 4:57 PM, said:

WRONG I'm afraid ... someone much higher up the ladder.

I KEEP telling you until I am blue in the face that it is some promoters who are championing the fixed race nights.

 

and we'll keep telling you until we're blue in the face that this is mainly led by the riders.

[SCB]

HEARING that Mondays and Thursday for the Premiership is pretty much a done deal. No idea who will be in it and how many tracks are in danger of closing but there are at least two all but on the chopping block. Fingers crossed that they survive.

Good, sometimes you have to kill off and cut away to grow. We spent years pandering to Eastbourne in the EL, where are they now? Speedway has in the past spent too much effort on pandering to the weak.

going to say I can't believe they would put tracks at risk of closing but thinking about it of course they would , the BSPA specialise in single minded self interest

So on one hand you think theres too much doubling up but on the other don't want less clubs? How do you propose getting rid of some of the double uppers? Because we sure as hell can't magic up 30-dd new riders, so closing two clubs would limit half the problem. Losing 4 or 5 clubs would be better.

 

SCB if he could afford the pay cut would probably be a good shout as an independent chairman of the BSPA and a one man management committee.

He'd upset a few of the old guard. But at least he has ideas on how to avoid fixture clashes etc

Probably need sectioning by the end of the season

 

'Independent'?? SCB? You must be joking!! ;-) ;-) ;-)

 

I hate everyone equally, I'm very independent

 

As for fixture clashes, I have some software that is probably 70-80% complete for solving this. The only reason it's not any furter complete is because I'd need to speak to someone at the BSPA/SCB to see how they wanted it to work. But my thinking is every club would log into a website, put all their home dates in, put any dates they cannot ride on (due to foreign commitments). Then put in any manually arranged meetings (bank holidays etc where they want specific teams on specific dates). From there the system will give each team a meeting a week home and away so that all teams have ridden the same number of meetings at the end of the week. It will also try and keep the second meeting against a team away from the first (rather than riding the same team twice in a month) and it will avoid clashes without doubling up riders - so if Leicester are at Swindon it will either be on a day other than Thursday or if it's a Thursday it will be a Thursday that Ipswich are not at home.

 

It CAN be done as I've tested it. Just need minor detailing.

[theblueboy]

Good, sometimes you have to kill off and cut away to grow. We spent years pandering to Eastbourne in the EL, where are they now? Speedway has in the past spent too much effort on pandering to the weak.

So on one hand you think theres too much doubling up but on the other don't want less clubs? How do you propose getting rid of some of the double uppers? Because we sure as hell can't magic up 30-dd new riders, so closing two clubs would limit half the problem. Losing 4 or 5 clubs would be better.

 

 

 

I hate everyone equally, I'm very independent

 

As for fixture clashes, I have some software that is probably 70-80% complete for solving this. The only reason it's not any furter complete is because I'd need to speak to someone at the BSPA/SCB to see how they wanted it to work. But my thinking is every club would log into a website, put all their home dates in, put any dates they cannot ride on (due to foreign commitments). Then put in any manually arranged meetings (bank holidays etc where they want specific teams on specific dates). From there the system will give each team a meeting a week home and away so that all teams have ridden the same number of meetings at the end of the week. It will also try and keep the second meeting against a team away from the first (rather than riding the same team twice in a month) and it will avoid clashes without doubling up riders - so if Leicester are at Swindon it will either be on a day other than Thursday or if it's a Thursday it will be a Thursday that Ipswich are not at home.

 

It CAN be done as I've tested it. Just need minor detailing.

Fancy that...a supporter has potentially managed to resolve one of the most contentious issues that blights British Speedway.

 

Just what do those monkeys, who masquerade as promoters, actually do? It's embarrassing that the supporters have a better idea how to run British speedway than those supposedly in charge.

 

All you need to do now SCB is to get hold of the rule book, rip it up, insert proper rules that can be adhered to by both promoters and referee. Form an independent group that rules on all contentious issues making immediate decisions so all parties are aware and maybe the sport may return from the Dark Ages.

 

Vote SCB...

[bigcatdiary]

SCB gets my vote, cracking idea for fixtures

[waytogo28]

SCB gets my vote, cracking idea for fixtures

 

Indeed, but cracking ideas are not normally the currency the BSPA deal in. Let's just hope that they do not give fixture planning role to the plonker who did it this season.

[Whisperer]

Good, sometimes you have to kill off and cut away to grow. We spent years pandering to Eastbourne in the EL, where are they now? Speedway has in the past spent too much effort on pandering to the weak.

So on one hand you think theres too much doubling up but on the other don't want less clubs? How do you propose getting rid of some of the double uppers? Because we sure as hell can't magic up 30-dd new riders, so closing two clubs would limit half the problem. Losing 4 or 5 clubs would be better.

 

 

 

I hate everyone equally, I'm very independent

 

As for fixture clashes, I have some software that is probably 70-80% complete for solving this. The only reason it's not any furter complete is because I'd need to speak to someone at the BSPA/SCB to see how they wanted it to work. But my thinking is every club would log into a website, put all their home dates in, put any dates they cannot ride on (due to foreign commitments). Then put in any manually arranged meetings (bank holidays etc where they want specific teams on specific dates). From there the system will give each team a meeting a week home and away so that all teams have ridden the same number of meetings at the end of the week. It will also try and keep the second meeting against a team away from the first (rather than riding the same team twice in a month) and it will avoid clashes without doubling up riders - so if Leicester are at Swindon it will either be on a day other than Thursday or if it's a Thursday it will be a Thursday that Ipswich are not at home.

 

It CAN be done as I've tested it. Just need minor detailing.

 

Genuinely sorry to disappoint you but this is how it's been for many years. Spreadsheet derived, preferred dates are submitted, preferred derbies are submitted, any stadium availability issues are submitted and the job lot comes out on a tabbed sheet with suggested fixtures. It's then up to each club to; modify, swap, re-arrange or do sweet f a to finalise their fixtures and re-submit. All of the hard work is done for them and it's really well done but unfortunately it's beyond the ability of the average Promoter to follow and agree hence so much conflict. Trust me they are second guessing rider availability and the likelihood of a win before committing to the fixtures in other words a different agenda. The poor guy who puts hours and hours into it must feel let down by the constant challenges and in the end says fluff it do your own thing.

[Tsunami]

Fancy that...a supporter has potentially managed to resolve one of the most contentious issues that blights British Speedway.

 

Just what do those monkeys, who masquerade as promoters, actually do? It's embarrassing that the supporters have a better idea how to run British speedway than those supposedly in charge.

 

 

Is that apart from setting up their team, providing the capital and settling debts ?

[Dave Jones]

Is that apart from setting up their team, providing the capital and settling debts ?

Has it ever occurred to you that if theses guys got their act together there might not be any debts to settle?

[mikebv]

Is that apart from setting up their team, providing the capital and settling debts ?

And then dismantling all their fine work by devising and delivering astoundingly 'unfit for purpose' operating models and business plans...

Edited September 21, 2017 by mikebv

[theblueboy]

Is that apart from setting up their team, providing the capital and settling debts ?

That's the easy bit to be honest.

 

This is a professional sport but run in a very Corinthian way. I accept that each of those tasks are performed but promoters have 6 months to ensure they have a competitive team and ensure that relevant finance is in place. If the promotion have constructed an exciting team it will entice customers to watch each week, and that is the crux, every week.

 

If people get out of the habit of going week in week out because promoters cannot provide a coherent fixture list or a team worthy for them to part with their hard earned then those promotions cannot moan when they incur massive losses.

 

This season has been an absolute disgrace in terms of fixture planning. I cannot use the words I want to describe the situation that we currently have with both the KOC and the PO running at exactly the same time.

 

So yes, I do think they are monkeys. Nothing changes. Shambolic governance at all levels, which are well documented and discussed ad nauseum on this forum, yet promoters, and I believe from previous comments you have made you have been one, continue to fiddle whilst Rome burns.

 

Promoters are the cause of every single problem within speedway, not the customer, however, promoters continue to treat us all with contempt.

[waytogo28]

theblueboy wrote" So yes, I do think they are monkeys. Nothing changes. Shambolic governance at all levels, which are well documented and discussed ad nauseum on this forum, yet promoters, and I believe from previous comments you have made you have been one, continue to fiddle whilst Rome burns.

Promoters are the cause of every single problem within speedway, not the customer, however, promoters continue to treat us all with contempt."

 

Hurray! Someone writes it truly as it is. When the Promoters sit among the smoking ruins of the sport of speedway with maybe half a dozen viable clubs there will be nothing to rejuvenate. The fanbase is so eroded now that when that last happened within speedway there was still enough fan goodwill to re-build with, but the monkeys are still fiddling while Rome burns ( or is that diddling? ). They will, however when sitting by the burning embers of what was a great sport beloved by hundreds of thousands of supporters, bemoan " we put it on but the fans turned away from our best efforts". But we will know who is really at fault.

[arnieg]

Promoters are NOT the cause of every single problem in speedway.

 

However they generally seem ill equipped (both in skills and resources) to respond to those that they are not responsible for.

 

Most are doing the best they can in a difficult situation.

[Aces51]

Promoters are NOT the cause of every single problem in speedway.

However they generally seem ill equipped (both in skills and resources) to respond to those that they are not responsible for.

Most are doing the best they can in a difficult situation.

I don't doubt they are doing the best they can, nobody wants to lose money and I am sure they all want the sport to prosper. However, it is obvious that their best is not good enough. They have had ample opportunity to get things right and failed. Not everything they do is bad, the proposed fixed nights is a move in the right direction but too often they fail to see the big picture. To me every idea, every proposed change, should be tested by asking not only is it affordable, is it practical, is it credible, but most importantly, will it bring in more fans. No matter what they do it won't help unless it increases attendances. It is time now to acknowledge that they don't collectively have the vision and skills required to rejuvenate the sport and need to to bring in someone who can. The trick is finding that person with the limited funds available, no easy task. Edited September 22, 2017 by Aces51

[IainB]

to be fair the standard bike prices haven't risen that much but nobody rides the standard bike anymore , tuners are only doing what the riders want , basically what the sport needs to do is put rules in place so as the standard stuff is used , put 10kg on the minimum weight of the bike, simple rule , riders will use standard stuff instead of lightened more expensive bits to get the weight up and also it will slow the bikes fractionally , they may even use heavier flywheels and make the bike less volatile

I've always wondered and perhaps you can answer this as an ex-rider and that is why, unless your are at the very top level, spend all the money on the bells and whistles? Surely the riders of, let's be polite, lesser quality can be faster by being better riders first and foremost. Surely perfecting your style, going into the bends faster before shutting off will gain you more time and make you faster on the track than spending silly on shiny bits. An extreme example but I always remember watching Tony Rick at his heights powering into the bends where other riders were still shutting off, only Jason Crump was anywhere close to being as fast, then watching after the meeting juniors shutting off halfway down the straight to enter the bends. Like I said an extreme example but there's a lot of time to be made there and no doubt the junior riders would soon be thinking about spending money on kit that probably isn't going to make them go any faster.

 

I know nothing though, I've never sat on a bike. Can you enlighten me?

[SCB]

Promoters are NOT the cause of every single problem in speedway.

 

However they generally seem ill equipped (both in skills and resources) to respond to those that they are not responsible for.

 

Most are doing the best they can in a difficult situation.

Agree with this. The fact they're running the sport on speadsheets. ARGH! Databases and full systems. That way when a fixture is changed it can be emails and texted in seconds to all riders, managers and anyone else in the list for the effected teams (potentially fans too), the BSPA and club websites could be updated instantly. The one time a spreadsheet is possibly the answer is the referees scorecard but that should be a case of webpage that lets them select the date, the competition and the two teams. It then asks for the riding order. If a guest is needed it will give a list of all eligible guests. This spreadsheet will then go back into the system at the end of the meeting and averages will be available within minutes. That way you can change rolling averages to any number of meetings you like.

 

But also why are we arranging meeting on dates of GP qualifiers and SEC meetings? It ok having some all singing and dancing system but if you don't put the dates that are not free in, it won't work.

 

Another issue with spread sheets, two teams sit there changing things on a spreadsheet, send it back to someone for them to put it all into one master sporeadsheet but in that time something has changed. With a database it's instant, Club A say, "can we change to this date" and Club B say "yes" and someone at the SCB/BSPA clicks a confirm button having got an email/text to say a change has been requested.

[Gemini]

 

 

......iainb................... then watching after the meeting juniors shutting off halfway down the straight to enter the bends.

 

Just to pick up on this I did comment on Sunday how a lot of the riders in the British Junior Championship at Leicester were keeping the throttle open all the way round and not shutting off halfway along the straights like I've seen some of them do. Very impressive! Just gutted we had to leave after heat 7 in order to get back to the car park before the 4 hour limit was up as we were really enjoying watching them.

[waytogo28]

Promoters are NOT the cause of every single problem in speedway.

 

However they generally seem ill equipped (both in skills and resources) to respond to those that they are not responsible for.

 

Most are doing the best they can in a difficult situation.

 

Seems like a lack of confidence in promoters all round then. Not only in what they have done to the sport but what they are likely to do. If they do not have the clear headed thinking that is required to "save the sport" ( IF that is possible) , they should employ someone who does possess those skills. Otherwise it's game over in two or three years.

I don't doubt they are doing the best they can, nobody wants to lose money and I am sure they all want the sport to prosper. However, it is obvious that their best is not good enough. They have had ample opportunity to get things right and failed. Not everything they do is bad, the proposed fixed nights is a move in the right direction but too often they fail to see the big picture. To me every idea, every proposed change, should be tested by asking not only is it affordable, is it practical, is it credible, but most importantly, will it bring in more fans. No matter what they do it won't help unless it increases attendances. The trick is finding that person with the limited funds available, no easy task.

That is the only test of what they intend to do - increased attendances.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

I've always wondered and perhaps you can answer this as an ex-rider and that is why, unless your are at the very top level, spend all the money on the bells and whistles? Surely the riders of, let's be polite, lesser quality can be faster by being better riders first and foremost. Surely perfecting your style, going into the bends faster before shutting off will gain you more time and make you faster on the track than spending silly on shiny bits. An extreme example but I always remember watching Tony Rick at his heights powering into the bends where other riders were still shutting off, only Jason Crump was anywhere close to being as fast, then watching after the meeting juniors shutting off halfway down the straight to enter the bends. Like I said an extreme example but there's a lot of time to be made there and no doubt the junior riders would soon be thinking about spending money on kit that probably isn't going to make them go any faster.

 

I know nothing though, I've never sat on a bike. Can you enlighten me?

there is a mind set with younger riders that they have to have the same stuff as the world champion , the reality is you dont but thats what they want, its all well and good if you can afford the top equipment but if you cant and thats where 75% are at finacially in the sport, Ive sold a few bikes and parts over the years and given a fair bit away free and to be honest the reason I dont get involved with helping young riders is because they dont really want to listen to the likes of me , not that Im saying I know it all but they may go to a top riders training school and sit there and listen to them but 90% of them wont take it in , they will listen up to the point where the top rider will say something like you dont need a shiny new wheel and then they will switch off , I saw on Facebook a young rider had a few issues on a training day and had wrecked his chains and exhaust pipe , so I messaged him to say Ive got some new rear chains that I had picked up in box of spares that came with a classic bike I had brought and I had some exhaust pipes left over from my riding days, I told him he could have them for free , he came round but said he didnt want the chains as they were not gold couloured they were black , I said so what but no he wanted gold coloured one , they were brand new in a packet but he refused them , then I offered him 2 ex pipes , one was chrome but had a dent in or a plain one that had no dents and he chose the chrome one , I tried to help him but he knows best , needless to say he is still 2 years later he is in the amatuer scene .The things you hear off some riders who cant even get a skid on is laughable, try to explain to a young wannabe that a jawa front wheel 10 years old with new bearings that costs £20 spins at exactly the same speed as an anodised sm pro wheel which costs £200, its like explaining algebra they switch off , its all about the bling , try explaining the importance of good air filters , they would rather spend the money on a new coloured seat, this will never change and is not exclusive to speedway but the phrase all the gear no idea is very apt in lower speedway today, the bit that really gets me is bling is not needed in the national league but riders want it and they they say they cant make it pay and expect more money to fund their hobby , I really wish I was 20 years younger I would go out buy a bike for less than a £1000 and prove you dont need it at NL level , I said it before on here and its to any young rider , who would win a race out of you on the best bike money can buy with all the trick bits and Greg Hancock on a 20 year old jawa ? Until that answer is you your pouring money down the drain Edited September 22, 2017 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[Grand Central]

Promoters are NOT the cause of every single problem in speedway.

However they generally seem ill equipped (both in skills and resources) to respond to those that they are not responsible for.

Most are doing the best they can in a difficult situation.

It would seem this is so true that it denies us even hope.

If it were actually possible for them to do better they would have done it before now.

Wouldn't they?

Edited September 22, 2017 by Grand Central

[Lord Skid]

To ride in the NL, you have to have a 17 plate hire van, it's quite laughable really.

A reserve in the Championship thinks he's a full-time professional, and the Sport owes him a living, just a shame they actually believe it.

If ever the saying, bullrubbish baffles brains was meant for a Sport, then it's definitely Speedway.