A ORLOV Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Ben91 said: One league would be somewhere between Premiership and Championship standard. So the point about Poole is somewhat irrelevant. They’ve been scouring for a world class rider to come over, not a rider who could do a middle order job, of which there are plenty from abroad who would come to race here. You mean the level of team Poole has now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 9 hours ago, Ben91 said: One league would be somewhere between Premiership and Championship standard. So the point about Poole is somewhat irrelevant. They’ve been scouring for a world class rider to come over, not a rider who could do a middle order job, of which there are plenty from abroad who would come to race here. There are enough riders. I’ve proven it to you. Until the day there are only 132 riders left in the sport willing to take a team place in Britain, there are enough riders to fill 19 teams. Your proof has been exposed. There are not plenty of riders wanting to ride here, and only a handful of NL riders that can handle a level above. my point remains, there aren’t enough of sufficient quality to fill all teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, stevebrum said: Your proof has been exposed. There are not plenty of riders wanting to ride here, and only a handful of NL riders that can handle a level above. my point remains, there aren’t enough of sufficient quality to fill all teams. I agree.Not enough to list riders around Europe,they have to be known to have the desire to ride.Plus each of those 19 teams need riders of a decent strength in reserve in case they want to make a change or two throughout the season.Plus they have to be riders of a quality that enough fans will be ready to pay to watch.Plus I thought the plan was to then run on any day that the club thought was best for them,so putting them up against foreign competition,which will automatically narrow choice further.Pie in the sky stuff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 10 hours ago, Ben91 said: One league would be somewhere between Premiership and Championship standard. So the point about Poole is somewhat irrelevant. They’ve been scouring for a world class rider to come over, not a rider who could do a middle order job, of which there are plenty from abroad who would come to race here. There are enough riders. I’ve proven it to you. Until the day there are only 132 riders left in the sport willing to take a team place in Britain, there are enough riders to fill 19 teams. So if you want to water the product down further, you are going to be forcing riders out like Doyle, Iversen, Andersen, Bjerre, Kasprzak, Thorsell, Lambert etc... you have even less riders. You can't say you want to make it between Premiership and Championship standard and then quote how many riders are currently in the top division. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 1 hour ago, iris123 said: I agree.Not enough to list riders around Europe,they have to be known to have the desire to ride.Plus each of those 19 teams need riders of a decent strength in reserve in case they want to make a change or two throughout the season.Plus they have to be riders of a quality that enough fans will be ready to pay to watch.Plus I thought the plan was to then run on any day that the club thought was best for them,so putting them up against foreign competition,which will automatically narrow choice further.Pie in the sky stuff Total pie in the sky talk, completely unproven. 26 minutes ago, Najjer said: So if you want to water the product down further, you are going to be forcing riders out like Doyle, Iversen, Andersen, Bjerre, Kasprzak, Thorsell, Lambert etc... you have even less riders. You can't say you want to make it between Premiership and Championship standard and then quote how many riders are currently in the top division. Take out a further 8-12 top class riders that have ridden here in the past 2 seasons and yet again that mythical list of riders that will fill all team spots is further far from reality. why would you want to exclude ANY rider(s) that want to ride here and have been loyal to British speedway?? Just to weaken the sport here to save it??? That will really work, NOT. By doing that you are ensuring there is not a level somewhere between the Premiership and the Championship because you have totally wiped out the top tier by excluding the bigger names so another flaw pointed out in that idea previously mentioned. No doubt some won’t be happy until we have wiped out the top tier and the lower class is king. Sadly it isn’t. And you will as good as kill it dead by dumbing down the standard. so many reasons as to why a one big league won’t work or isn’t viable. Not enough quality riders, no stars, no crowds. I just hope it isn’t even under consideration unless it’s moving to something like the Danish league of 6 man teams. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted June 24, 2018 Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 Attendances haven't gone up at Rye House despite more big names being on show. I suspect that if they returned to the Championship the crowds would not fall so people aren't just going to watch Doyle, Lambert, Cook etc. If anything they make the racing more predictable as the top riders rarely make a mistake. If you could take up the sport on a relatively low cost, part time basis combined with it being easier to get a team place (remember 'Vultures' races?) more individuals may well be inclined to give it a go therefore increasing the supply of riders. How about appealing to existing moto-cross riders in the same way that grass track riders used to be encouraged to give it a go. Make clubs more like clubs so a longer term view is taken of riders' development. It's first and foremost a team sport for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayleigh Posted June 24, 2018 Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 2 hours ago, jeff said: Attendances haven't gone up at Rye House despite more big names being on show. I suspect that if they returned to the Championship the crowds would not fall so people aren't just going to watch Doyle, Lambert, Cook etc. If anything they make the racing more predictable as the top riders rarely make a mistake. If you could take up the sport on a relatively low cost, part time basis combined with it being easier to get a team place (remember 'Vultures' races?) more individuals may well be inclined to give it a go therefore increasing the supply of riders. How about appealing to existing moto-cross riders in the same way that grass track riders used to be encouraged to give it a go. Make clubs more like clubs so a longer term view is taken of riders' development. It's first and foremost a team sport for me. Oh yes the old "Vultures" race Red: Barry King Blue: Garry Monk White: Dave King Yellow/Black: Dale Rook (the perfect name for a vultures race) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted June 24, 2018 Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 Surely combining the leagues is the only way of riding the sport of the double up/down issue. Riders want more meetings so they let them ride in 2 leagues and promoters get to save on importing more (iffy) foreigners to keep the leagues fully staffed. The tragedy will be when tracks start to close down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted June 26, 2018 Report Share Posted June 26, 2018 On 6/24/2018 at 11:20 PM, GWC said: The tragedy will be when tracks start to close down. As it will before much longer. Tracks without owners with substantial wealth or sponsors with deep pockets may go at the end of this year. Crowds of 500 to 800 ( or less in some places ) means it is a hand to mouth existence for some promotions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted June 26, 2018 Report Share Posted June 26, 2018 On 6/23/2018 at 8:47 PM, stevebrum said: No doubt some won’t be happy until we have wiped out the top tier and the lower class is king. Sadly it isn’t. And you will as good as kill it dead by dumbing down the standard. The TV match at Wolverhampton V Leicester showed that dumbing down on talent is already well advanced in the Premier League. Yes I know it's a tight technical track but if riding in the top tier all riders should be capable of turning ( even at a lower speed ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted June 26, 2018 Report Share Posted June 26, 2018 4 hours ago, waytogo28 said: The TV match at Wolverhampton V Leicester showed that dumbing down on talent is already well advanced in the Premier League. Yes I know it's a tight technical track but if riding in the top tier all riders should be capable of turning ( even at a lower speed ). Only the new Pole struggled to turn. Something we have seen time and time again at a small track where throttle control is king and not full speed. Nobody is saying the top flight is anywhere near as strong as it should be, it’s still well more stronger than the 2nd tier. Evidenced by the big victories in the relegation battles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uluru Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 Now there's a question. Are there going to be promotion/relegation play-offs again this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigbo Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 Never understood the old "not enough riders" comment. Solely based on riders who are still active and have raced in Britain in the last 3 seasons, there are plenty to fill 19 teams with spares left over - that's without touching the NL and any newcomers. Sure, a few of those 19 teams may not be able to afford running at an increased standard, but that only improves the rider position and they would have to operate at a level to suit their pocket. 16 teams would be a more than manageable amount for one big league. The big challenge would be the need to retain fixed nights (sensible ones) to enable the few top-liners we still have to stay and attract any others who previously have shown an appetite for a full season here (Zagar for example). The old pony about watching Doyle v Wethers for example is no different from the 'halcyon days' of Mauger v Jim Tebby. If the top boys cannot be accommodated, either financially or on agreed race nights, it's time to bin them off and find a level to make it a proper team sport again, with teams operating when they wish as long as there are no riders missing owing to a second division meeting in Burkina Faso ir somewhere! The key to making one league work is to ensure the teams are balanced and at a level everyone can operate at - that's where 1995/96 went wrong as Bradford, Wolves, Poole and Cradley in particular hoarded the big stars and left Midd'bro, Long Eaton, Sheffield etc to scrabble around to find heat-leaders. The current situation of pandering to riders needs is killing the game and has to stop. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 26 minutes ago, frigbo said: The current situation of pandering to riders needs is killing the game and has to stop. I think it has already killed off the sport in the UK, as who can really go on with crowds that rarely top 1,000 and may be as low as 300? What is there to attract new fans? Even if they have BT and caught the meeting last Monday I can't see them rushing out to a track near them. It confirmed that first away invariably wins and that there was an enormous skill gap between the riders, several of whom had problems lapping at speed. And if their local track does not run on a day they prefer, they just "leave it". Without Tatum & Pearson building up each race ( ie watching with the sound off ) it was comical. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
startline sid Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 5 hours ago, Uluru said: Now there's a question. Are there going to be promotion/relegation play-offs again this year? no they are not scheduled this year (good job after last years dismal effort) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 IF the promotion has any pretence of being "professional" there should be an unambiguous statement within 24 hours of the "cancellation" ( and if it was merely a postponement ). Are they closing down in mid-season ( not unheard of in speedway history )? Or are they going to try to run at weekends? Or most likely have they sold up the speedway rights to c/o the BSPA or Buster Chapman? There are very few other options I would have thought. Does the BT deal depend on a minimum number of Premier League clubs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 Sad to hear Rye have folded. All results expunged I guess. Sorry for the fans that did bother to turn up and the riders out of pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayleigh Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said: Sad to hear Rye have folded. All results expunged I guess. Sorry for the fans that did bother to turn up and the riders out of pocket. Steve is this confirmed or presumed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) Well the source who told me will most certainly know. Very sad. Hope they can come back next season on a night they feel happy with. Edited June 27, 2018 by Steve Shovlar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayleigh Posted June 27, 2018 Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 Thanks Steve, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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