Rye House 2018

[Aces51]

51 minutes ago, Najjer said:

So that shows with the correct racenight it is viable. All this talk of reducing costs with 35.00 points limits and stuff like that is absolute nonsense.

Unfortunately, it doesn't. Belle Vue lost money last year even with average crowds of 1500 and I'm sure they weren't the only ones. This year, so far,  crowds are noticeably down on last year and the only difference is the change of race night. In fact you might reasonably have expected crowds to have gone up with fewer riders missing due to doubling up.

[Mr Bump]

1 hour ago, Aces51 said:

But 4 of those 6 have been racing on their regular race night. Of the 4 who had to change night, you have mentioned Rye House and Belle Vue are struggling, it seems that Somerset may be ok but that could be helped but fans no longer having to face the M5 on a Friday and I don't know how crowds are holding up at Leicester.

Hard to say with any accuracy but I think crowds at Leicester look to be pretty much at last years levels, if not actually a little better

[g13webb]

On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 3:27 PM, PHILIPRISING said:

RECENTLY I was invited to meet a member of the BSPA to discuss their relationship with Speedway Star and, indeed, the media in general. I told him that in my opinion the BSPA had become more of a secret organisation than the Vatican. It is all well and good publishing daily news items, which are fine, but there is no official spokesperson for the BSPA empowered to make official statements.

It is only after an AGM that any official announcements are made and then, a few days later, changes are often made which are not made public. They are their own worse enemy in this respect. It is no wonder that the general speedway public are suspicious and often put two and two together to make five because no one says otherwise. Quite often one promoter will say one thing and another something totally different.

Many years ago when Martin Rogers, a journalist by trade, was a member of the BSPA Management Committee he would brief the media, and especially Speedway Star, after meetings, some of which was "off the record" but at least we would know exactly what was going on and could do our best to keep the paying punters properly informed.

With regard to the current situation with Rye House ... I am sure there are people that know as much as I do, which frankly isn't much.

But it is situations like this which the BSPA as an organisation handle so poorly. Of course, they can not be expected to release confidential information but just a holding statement along the lines of "the BSPA are in negotiations with the Rye House management to resolve their current difficulties and in the meantime their immediate fixtures have been suspended" would have been better than total silence which invites fans to draw their own, frequently inaccurate, conclusions.

What is not in doubt is that British speedway is facing a crisis the like of which I have not witnessed in over 50 years of covering the sport.

 

It would be interesting to heard the response you received from the BSPA  from the discussions you had,      Are they  bothered of how the fans feel  ??

[Shadders]

7 hours ago, Mr Bump said:

Hard to say with any accuracy but I think crowds at Leicester look to be pretty much at last years levels, if not actually a little better

That’s encouraging. The problem with Rye House is it’s always been a weekend track since the Rockets relocated from Rayleigh in 1974. The South East has a massive traffic problem. It’s not viable for everyone to get there for a midweek 7.30pm start if they don’t work within a few miles of the track, unless they leave early which may not be possible for most. Add that to families with young children not wanting thier little darlings up until well after 10.30 and you can see we have a problem. Not sure Leicester have the same difficulties as I reckon they have a higher percentage of support that live or work within half an hour or so commute from Beaumont Leys. 

Edited July 3, 2018 by Shadders

[Najjer]

7 hours ago, Aces51 said:

Unfortunately, it doesn't. Belle Vue lost money last year even with average crowds of 1500 and I'm sure they weren't the only ones. This year, so far,  crowds are noticeably down on last year and the only difference is the change of race night. In fact you might reasonably have expected crowds to have gone up with fewer riders missing due to doubling up.

To be losing money with crowds of 1500 shows completely poor management and handling of their business. They must have been paying riders way more than they could afford. There is nobody to blame for that except the club itself, it's not the BSPA fault to ensure all clubs are handled correctly in that manner or anyone else's other than the people running the club. I know Bjerre wasn't retained for this year but it'll be interesting to see how much of a pay cut the other riders took as it's largely the same team.

[TesarRacing]

.............and if the riders refuse to take a pay cut, what do you do then?

[ouch]

What do people think a team of seven cost per meeting?

[Steve0]

10 minutes ago, Najjer said:

To be losing money with crowds of 1500 shows completely poor management and handling of their business. They must have been paying riders way more than they could afford. There is nobody to blame for that except the club itself, it's not the BSPA fault to ensure all clubs are handled correctly in that manner or anyone else's other than the people running the club. I know Bjerre wasn't retained for this year but it'll be interesting to see how much of a pay cut the other riders took as it's largely the same team.

As you would expect for such a fantastic stadium, the costs are significantly higher than most/all other stadiums in the country so I don't think it shows poor management to be losing money.  What they need to do is to find ways of getting more people there and other revenue streams.

[Phil The Ace]

1 hour ago, Najjer said:

To be losing money with crowds of 1500 shows completely poor management and handling of their business. They must have been paying riders way more than they could afford. There is nobody to blame for that except the club itself, it's not the BSPA fault to ensure all clubs are handled correctly in that manner or anyone else's other than the people running the club. I know Bjerre wasn't retained for this year but it'll be interesting to see how much of a pay cut the other riders took as it's largely the same team.

Nothing to do with the amount they pay the riders. I fact we are one of the lowest at payi g riders but this makes sure all riders are paid on time. Also I have it on good authority that all riders retained from last year took a pay cut this year. 

 

Problem with belle vue is that the overheads is massive. 

 

First of all we pay massive rent. All though they got the rent lower that what Gordon we paying. 

 

Then we pay adrian Smith and lemon. And I bet there on a decent wage. 

 

Security we HAVE to pay for. And this is probably the most expensive part. All though recently I notice we have made the security company we use an official sponsor so assume we are getting them much cheaper now because of it. 

 

Then there is also other little things we have to pay for. 

 

For us to break even we have to average 1800 per meeting. Don't know how we could ever manage that. Interestingly for the to break even they need 900 so that half of what we need. 

 

As adrian Smith says. Running belle vue is like feeding the beast 

[HertsRacer]

1 hour ago, Shadders said:

That’s encouraging. The problem with Rye House is it’s always been a weekend track since the Rockets relocated from Rayleigh in 1974. The South East has a massive traffic problem. It’s not viable for everyone to get there for a midweek 7.30pm start if they don’t work within a few miles of the track, unless they leave early which may not be possible for most. Add that to families with young children not wanting thier little darlings up until well after 10.30 and you can see we have a problem. Not sure Leicester have the same difficulties as I reckon they have a higher percentage of support that live or work within half an hour or so commute from Beaumont Leys. 

Totally correct. Rye House's support is not local but from all over Hertfordshire etc. Also many work in London and commute by train, and the current rail fiasco is making it impossible for them to get home and get to Rye in time.

[hammer1969]

2 hours ago, Shadders said:

That’s encouraging. The problem with Rye House is it’s always been a weekend track since the Rockets relocated from Rayleigh in 1974. The South East has a massive traffic problem. It’s not viable for everyone to get there for a midweek 7.30pm start if they don’t work within a few miles of the track, unless they leave early which may not be possible for most. Add that to families with young children not wanting thier little darlings up until well after 10.30 and you can see we have a problem. Not sure Leicester have the same difficulties as I reckon they have a higher percentage of support that live or work within half an hour or so commute from Beaumont Leys. 

I am one of the "older supporters that someone in an earlier post said that race night changes shouldn't bother. Well actually it does because trying to get round the M25 at rush hours is horrendous so we travel across country from East London, via Epping etc and that's almost as bad, solution go early afternoon and take a picnic.  During this weather that's not so bad but most times who wants to sit in their car from 4pm after an hours journey basically in a car park in the middle of nowhere.  Saturday the traffic can still be busy but nowhere near as bad as mid week.

[Najjer]

2 hours ago, Steve0 said:

As you would expect for such a fantastic stadium, the costs are significantly higher than most/all other stadiums in the country so I don't think it shows poor management to be losing money.  What they need to do is to find ways of getting more people there and other revenue streams.

Doesn't all of that all eventually lead back to poor management then? That fact that Belle Vue fans have been saying all season about needing to run on a Friday night to be sustainable, now actually transpires it was losing money then aswell! Phil the Aces' post gives a lot better insight into the costs of Belle Vue, and shows a poor business model quite frankly. A stadium such as the National Stadium is frankly not affordable it seems. 

To continue to run a business at a loss is just a ticking time bomb. Eventually the existing money will dry up, look at Rye House....

[hammer1969]

2 hours ago, Steve0 said:

As you would expect for such a fantastic stadium, the costs are significantly higher than most/all other stadiums in the country so I don't think it shows poor management to be losing money.  What they need to do is to find ways of getting more people there and other revenue streams.

Started reading your post and had a good laugh at myself as first of all I thought you were referring to Rye House - best stadium in league.   Anyway been to your Belle Vue Stadium and have to agree with best in league, your mascot is super as well loved watching his antics at the British Final, can we borrow him at Rye please we could do with cheering up at present.

[tonyd]

3 hours ago, Shadders said:

That’s encouraging. The problem with Rye House is it’s always been a weekend track since the Rockets relocated from Rayleigh in 1974. The South East has a massive traffic problem. It’s not viable for everyone to get there for a midweek 7.30pm start if they don’t work within a few miles of the track, unless they leave early which may not be possible for most. Add that to families with young children not wanting thier little darlings up until well after 10.30 and you can see we have a problem. Not sure Leicester have the same difficulties as I reckon they have a higher percentage of support that live or work within half an hour or so commute from Beaumont Leys. 

Rye House has been a weekend track since the birth of speedway, even when Len ran the odd mid week match over the years the crowds were down compared to Saturday nights.

[dj350z]

2 hours ago, Najjer said:

Doesn't all of that all eventually lead back to poor management then? That fact that Belle Vue fans have been saying all season about needing to run on a Friday night to be sustainable, now actually transpires it was losing money then aswell! Phil the Aces' post gives a lot better insight into the costs of Belle Vue, and shows a poor business model quite frankly. A stadium such as the National Stadium is frankly not affordable it seems. 

To continue to run a business at a loss is just a ticking time bomb. Eventually the existing money will dry up, look at Rye House....

If it is poor management to continue to operate speedway at the NSS when there is nowhere else to take the team in the Manchester area then I would agree. Unless you have alternative speedway venues you can suggest?

[ouch]

Mort & Gordon thought speedway couldn’t sink any lower back when kicking off the NSS. When it opened we all thought the sport in this country couldn’t sink any lower. Unbelievably it has. 

The man from the council promised funding at our dinner dance so the stadium could be finished. I think they like our current owners are treading water as to press on full steam ahead would be rather like renovating a cafe on Saddleworth Moor. The potential being that everything could just collapse around us. 

I think it will. 

[Najjer]

16 minutes ago, dj350z said:

If it is poor management to continue to operate speedway at the NSS when there is nowhere else to take the team in the Manchester area then I would agree. Unless you have alternative speedway venues you can suggest?

Does the National League team make money... does this offset some of the costs incurred from the Premiership side? It's a weird situation if a 3rd division side is propping up the 1st division side however. If it doesn't make money, why have they even got a 3rd division side?

Does the World Cup/Speedway of Nations bring in considerable cash to top up the bank balance?

If you're seriously suggesting a business model of "We are losing money, but it's better than any other options" is a good one, I hope you never go into business.

[Mediman]

What does it cost .

lets start on a meeting draw thats 45 points per team.

Across the board you would say 100 per point so thats £4500.00, the there are  tyres, matchday staff  including  doctor, ambulance services, paramedic, starting marshal's pit marshall, inspector referee and timekeeper turnstile operators.track staff, tractor driver, fuel, et al.

Now if this is my business i have to pay myself and any others, marketing, stadium upkeep or lease, power, maintenance the list goes on.

I have only a window of around 20 meetings at home and i still have to pay the riders for away meetings the figures prove difficult reading if you think that a few years ago i was getting 80-90k from tv revenue and now I get 14.

Would riders go part time some may but if they get injured how will this affect the day job and could they expect their employer to give them the time off to travel from the North to say poole.

I dont have the answers but I do know that big big changes to the sport are due and one I would like is a management committee that does not have its head so far in the sand and so disconnected with its revenue paying customers.

 

 

[Starman2006]

4 hours ago, Phil The Ace said:

Nothing to do with the amount they pay the riders. I fact we are one of the lowest at payi g riders but this makes sure all riders are paid on time. Also I have it on good authority that all riders retained from last year took a pay cut this year. 

 

Problem with belle vue is that the overheads is massive. 

 

First of all we pay massive rent. All though they got the rent lower that what Gordon we paying. 

 

Then we pay adrian Smith and lemon. And I bet there on a decent wage. 

 

Security we HAVE to pay for. And this is probably the most expensive part. All though recently I notice we have made the security company we use an official sponsor so assume we are getting them much cheaper now because of it. 

 

Then there is also other little things we have to pay for. 

 

For us to break even we have to average 1800 per meeting. Don't know how we could ever manage that. Interestingly for the to break even they need 900 so that half of what we need. 

 

As adrian Smith says. Running belle vue is like feeding the beast 

Yup, you got it in 11 sentances..

[hammer1969]

It's now Tuesday and the silence from Rye House is deafening. Although now showing on their fixture list as tomorrow's away match at Somerset is off (We all knew that anyway  last week Somerset set told us) no official explanation  from Rye.  Home match on 9th with KL still counting down but are fans going to forego other possible plans just in case the meeting goes ahead?  At this rate if the meeting does take place will it be to an empty stadium?