They Say Never Go Back.

[Paulco]

Some went home after Heat 13 at Sunderland - but the majority stayed on to enjoy the Second Half.

 

Personally - I am with scarra on this one BW.

 

You could argue that those going home make their choice - it is up to them.

That included some of the away side a lot of the time

[topsoil]

The current 15 heat format is fine by me.Certainly no return to the 13 heats and a second half. Can you imagine the riders' response to that? And the excuses that will be served up to avoid riding in the second halves. One thing I would like to see is a junior meeting after every meeting. Force each team to have a junior team of some sort. Try and get a lot more young riders into the system. There's your "second halves" if you want it. Gives the youngsters a lot more track time as well. And the more riders we get into the sport the faster we can phase up doubling up / down.

[waiheke1]

That however is what speedway needs to do

 

Back to upright engines where throttle control comes in

Stop the gardening at the gate

After a tape infringement straight back to the start

Stop the double ups / Downs

Back to 13 heats & second halves

 

All common sense but dreams I am afraid

No

Yes, but I think it is better now than it used to be

Yes

No, but restrict to Brits and avoid clashes by having fixed race nights.

No

[Aces51]

Aye the old 13 heat format was a bit jaded , hence the change to 15 , 16 , 18 , then back to 15 . 15 works perfectly well . As for gardening , the holding on to the bike while they stamp on all the spiders at the starting gate looks a bit silly , I believe next season they're not allowed to get off the bike at all once they get to the start .

 

Not being able to get off the bike would make life difficult for those riders who are on the short side. Bjerre, Tungate and Bewley would find their bikes weighed down with spiders they wouldn't be able to stamp on.

[Guest]

There are frequent calls for fixed race nights in British speedway. But it is very much a non-starter. Many speedway clubs are only stadium tenants.

What happens if the night earmarked for speedway clashes with an already alternate sports event at a stadium - for example greyhounds or 'stock car' racing? I doubt these alternative promotions would be prepared to upset their own followers to facilitate speedway.

However, I am would be interested in seeing how the problems in regard to a fixed race night can be resolved. Surely if introduced it would make it near impossible for tracks to stage regular weekly home meetings?

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

People really need to build a stronghold of opinion of the wider audience before imposing their views of common sense on everyone and assuming all fans wish to see such changes as well..

 

I’d be more inclined to think most fans who have walked away from the sport in recent years couldn’t care less about gardening, upright engines and second half racing – and I doubt altering such things would entice them back – small, minor, quick and easy changes they might be but they are not the kind of thing that will shift the needle attendance wise or how most people now feel about the sport.

 

 

[IainB]

A one minute warning for restarts

1 minute! 30 seconds for me

[PHILIPRISING]

There are frequent calls for fixed race nights in British speedway. But it is very much a non-starter. Many speedway clubs are only stadium tenants.

What happens if the night earmarked for speedway clashes with an already alternate sports event at a stadium - for example greyhounds or 'stock car' racing? I doubt these alternative promotions would be prepared to upset their own followers to facilitate speedway.

However, I am would be interested in seeing how the problems in regard to a fixed race night can be resolved. Surely if introduced it would make it near impossible for tracks to stage regular weekly home meetings?

THERE seems to be a consensus that Premiership tracks could operate on Mondays and Thursdays. But, if doubling up is to stop, riders especially in the top flight will need sufficient meetings to make speedway viable. That would require at least four current Championship tracks joining the Premiership.

 

Ipswich, Peterborough (with relatively local meetings against King's Lynn and Rye House), Sheffield (Belle Vue) and one more would do the trick.

 

But pay scales would be key if, as expected, there is no TV money coming into the coffers in 2018. It will be a balancing act ensuring that riders can make enough money to make speedway a worthwhile occupation and what tracks can afford out of their revenue.

[foamfence]

THERE seems to be a consensus that Premiership tracks could operate on Mondays and Thursdays. But, if doubling up is to stop, riders especially in the top flight will need sufficient meetings to make speedway viable. That would require at least four current Championship tracks joining the Premiership.

 

Ipswich, Peterborough (with relatively local meetings against King's Lynn and Rye House), Sheffield (Belle Vue) and one more would do the trick.

 

But pay scales would be key if, as expected, there is no TV money coming into the coffers in 2018. It will be a balancing act ensuring that riders can make enough money to make speedway a worthwhile occupation and what tracks can afford out of their revenue.

Do you mean that the 'four' actually swap with current Premiership clubs, or do you mean that the Championship would be reduced to six clubs? Redcar is another 'Thursday' club. While this might partly address the problems associated with doubling-up (apart from rain-offs and other rearranged fixtures). Another problem is that Poland and Sweden seem to be having more meetings away from their usual days, while we can't do anything about that, it might still promote the need for absences and guests. The time when riders probably don't 'make enough money to make Speedway worthwhile' is probably here and to my mind the 'balancing act' you mention, is actually between clubs going under and riders accepting that they might need a second job (some already have one anyway). It may become inevitable that British Speedway is forced to dump it's delusions of grandeur and go for one big league with mostly part-time riders, unless a huge form of new funding is discovered.

Edited August 28, 2017 by foamfence

[PHILIPRISING]

Do you mean that the 'four' actually swap with current Premiership clubs, or do you mean that the Championship would be reduced to six clubs? Redcar is another 'Thursday' club. While this might partly address the problems associated with doubling-up (apart from rain-offs and other rearranged fixtures). Another problem is that Poland and Sweden seem to be having more meetings away from their usual days, while we can't do anything about that, it might still promote the need for absences and guests. The time when riders probably don't 'make enough money to make Speedway worthwhile' is probably here and to my mind the 'balancing act' you mention, is actually between clubs going under and riders accepting that they might need a second job (some already have one anyway). It may become inevitable that British Speedway is forced to dump it's delusions of grandeur and go for one big league with mostly part-time riders, unless a huge form of new funding is discovered.

SWEDEN pretty much stick to Tuesdays and from what I am hearing, not gospel of course, Mondays and Thursday would not be affected by Poland.

 

I understand what you are saying about part-time riders but that is easier said than done these days.

 

As you say, one big league does appear to be the lesser of all evils although the question of team strengths will inevitably be a major bone of contention if the likes of Bjerre, Doyle, Holder and Lindgren continue to race here and some, currently racing in Sweden but possibly not wanted in 2018, wish to come over.

[waytogo28]

It is not so much part time riders that are required for this to work but for riders who accept that they are paid less for riding. As ever there is no transparency in speedway so we don't know what an average deal looks like But from what I have been told riders are overpaid now in terms of guarantees / vans / local sponsors ( bungs ) etc and should be paid on a results basis only. If that turns our to mean the loss of many that don't want to ride for the £s on offer, then that would be as valid a reason for the demise of the sport as the huge decrease in supporters looks like being. Either way the sport cannot go on as it is - or so we are led to believe?

[PHILIPRISING]

It is not so much part time riders that are required for this to work but for riders who accept that they are paid less for riding. As ever there is no transparency in speedway so we don't know what an average deal looks like But from what I have been told riders are overpaid now in terms of guarantees / vans / local sponsors ( bungs ) etc and should be paid on a results basis only. If that turns our to mean the loss of many that don't want to ride for the £s on offer, then that would be as valid a reason for the demise of the sport as the huge decrease in supporters looks like being. Either way the sport cannot go on as it is - or so we are led to believe?

WHAT you suggest is probably the exception rather than the rule. Points money is the key.

[waiheke1]

And it's all very well saying riders should go part time, but as soon as a rider suffers a string of engine failures or misses a meeting due to work commitments, you can guarantee fans will be asking for him to be replaced.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

And it's all very well saying riders should go part time, but as soon as a rider suffers a string of engine failures or misses a meeting due to work commitments, you can guarantee fans will be asking for him to be replaced.

but isn't that the nature of the beast , when I was crap I was replaced , I didn't like it but as one door closed another opened but nobody has the god given right to be a speedway rider

[Fromafar]

WHAT you suggest is probably the exception rather than the rule. Points money is the key.

Taboo subject is points money, Promotions will only tell you that they are losing money and a whip round is nessessary .Promoters are their own worst enemy trying to get "one up".Its all been said before though.Individuals with money are all that's keeping the sport alive at a number of clubs.

[Hawk127]

Difficult balancing act with some who believe it is a £10 sport with the assumption that at pricing level more supporters would turn up but to achieve this either the pay scales are fixed (in reality reduced levels for some riders with start and points money only) to reflect the income through the turnstiles or you reduce the number of races in a league meeting.

 

If the club can arrange sponsors then they could pay bonuses when a rider scores over a certain number of points but the clubs have to cut their cloth accordingly.

 

If you have reduced heats to a meeting or six/five man teams again they need to be realistic about the revenue generation to cover the costs.

 

Today not many supporters are willing to compromise and would be unlikely to support a second half of NL standard riders which in itself would also mean lower fixed rates of pay but more racing. These lads have to start somewhere and it is a shame that many who watch today think only league racing is important and open meetings and well as other meetings such as local 4TT etc are not worth supporting. The reality is that you do not have enough teams in split leagues to provide weekly racing and it is either one big league with other types of meetings giving riders track time and probably weekly racing or you watch a watered down product and the slow demise of racing.

 

I doubt that the powers that be take any notice of what is said on this forum but when you watch them destroying each others business without a second thought for the overall good of the sport, is it any wonder speedway has fallen so far and by this I mean to include the fixture fiasco with weeks without a meeting and teams having three home meetings in seven days. The fixture compiler should be sacked for not understanding that it is easy get out of the habit of attending with just one or even two home meetings in one month and then expecting supporters to turn up to three in a week. If you want away supporters to attend more would probably go if they could plan in advance in terms of booking holidays etc. but the compiler makes even that simple task difficult for supporters

 

I really hope that someone somewhere can get through to the chumps at the BSPA and perhaps it might take a petition from supporters and then they might think a bit more about one of the streams of income which they gladly take every meeting without a second thought when it comes to entertainment or value for money they give back in return.

 

Probably not a straight forward solution to sorting out the issues but some are basic and are not rocket science.

[waytogo28]

HAWK 127 wrote " I really hope that someone somewhere can get through to the chumps at the BSPA and perhaps it might take a petition from supporters and then they might think a bit more about one of the streams of income which they gladly take every meeting without a second thought when it comes to entertainment or value for money they give back in return."

 

​There is no doubt that almost every fan who still loves speedway ( even those who are more and more disillusioned like myself ) agree with this and hope that it can achieved but history tells us differently It also tells us that it is a wealthy man's vanity project in some cases, who keep some clubs alive but the sport cannot continue long, depending only on the largesse of half a dozen people. The Rye House three home meetings in a week says a lot about speedway insanity! I know that that new promotion is eager to get in the play offs but the fixture compiler must be an AI robot ( or would that do a better job?)

[The White Knight]

I think we have more pressing issues than stopping the riders 'gardening' before heats! It's all part of their prep to gain advantage from the start.

 

15 heats are good, I'd do away with the TR but allow the managers to choose gate positions if 6 down.

 

They need to go to 2 nights a week racing in Premiership.

At least that would get me back to Speedway Trees. Good idea.

 

That included some of the away side a lot of the time

True - but they would get home earlier.

[steve roberts]

At least that would get me back to Speedway Trees. Good idea.

 

True - but they would get home earlier.

There appears to be a consensus on the forum about the T/S ruling (I believe that it was first introduced in 1955?) but I personally don't recall in all my years of attending speedway (1972 - 2004) that there was ever really an issue...certainly not amongst the group of people that I used to stand with. The only grumble from what I remember was the introduction of a T/S in heat eight. It certainly wasn't viewed negatively in the way that Guest Riders, for example, were utilised...although that's a different story.

 

I guess that nowadays people are more analytical and look at things differently but all I can say that it used to spice up meetings in my opinion where one of the pluses was trying to out manoeuvre the Team Manager and it used to cause plenty of gossip on the terraces between races.

Edited August 30, 2017 by steve roberts

[BWitcher]

There appears to be a consensus on the forum about the T/S ruling (I believe that it was first introduced in 1955?) but I personally don't recall in all my years of attending speedway (1972 - 2004) that there was ever really an issue...certainly not amongst the group of people that I used to stand with. The only grumble from what I remember was the introduction of a T/S in heat eight. It certainly wasn't viewed negatively in the way that Guest Riders, for example, were utilised...although that's a different story.

 

I guess that nowadays people are more analytical and look at things differently but all I can say that it used to spice up meetings in my opinion where one of the pluses was trying to out manoeuvre the Team Manager and it used to cause plenty of gossip on the terraces between races.

 

I don't think anyone disagrees with that at all.

 

It's only when certain folks start piping up how 'unfair' the current system is and advocate a return to the old one based on fairness that there is debate.

 

I much prefer the old system too.