They Say Never Go Back.

[The White Knight]

 

I don't think anyone disagrees with that at all.

 

It's only when certain folks start piping up how 'unfair' the current system is and advocate a return to the old one based on fairness that there is debate.

 

I much prefer the old system too.

Very glad to hear it BW.

[BWitcher]

Very glad to hear it BW.

 

I'm not silly enough to boycott the sport on the basis of the current rule being unfair however.....

[The White Knight]

 

I'm not silly enough to boycott the sport on the basis of the current rule being unfair however.....

No - that s true and how you feel about it.

 

It would be nice if you were to grant me the right to believe that what I am doing is right for me - and not silly.

[BWitcher]

No - that s true and how you feel about it.

 

It would be nice if you were to grant me the right to believe that what I am doing is right for me - and not silly.

 

I grant you the right to do as you will, but reserve the right to say it's silly (it's actually way beyond silly) when your reasoning is completely wrong.

[Sir Jasper]

Ref gardening, dead easy to limit it, all they need to do is whack the 2 minutes on and then the riders have 2 minutes to get around get prepared, once the 2 minutes is complete the green light comes on, if they are still fiddling around they will miss the start, so effectively they will be enforcing the 2 minute rule.

 

I think peoples frustrations are that it takes a while for the 2 minute warning to come on, then the riders pootle around to the gate and think they are then ok to dig up etc meaning the fans are hanging around for up to 10 minutes between a race.

[The White Knight]

 

I grant you the right to do as you will, but reserve the right to say it's silly (it's actually way beyond silly) when your reasoning is completely wrong.

We must agree to differ in our opinions.

[BWitcher]

We must agree to differ in our opinions.

 

We're not discussing an opinion.

 

Your reasoning is wrong.

 

You won't attend the sport because you feel a rule is unfair. Yet you would advocate and return to the sport if an older MORE unfair rule was brought back in.

 

If that's not 'silly' I don't know what is.

[waytogo28]

WHAT you suggest is probably the exception rather than the rule. Points money is the key.

 

As far as I am aware not one of the current KLS team is riding solely for points money. A match fee guarantee is in place so that a rider failing to score will not fail to earn. I would like to hear from fans of other teams as to what they know exists generally in the UK re pay rates.

[Jonny the spud]

TWK has been a wind up for years, he has no intention of ever going to speedway again. He just prefers to moan on an internet forum about "the good old days", which is why he's all over the Brexit threads like a rash. It's the 1960's all over again, bleedin' foreigners etc .....

[The White Knight]

TWK has been a wind up for years, he has no intention of ever going to speedway again. He just prefers to moan on an internet forum about "the good old days", which is why he's all over the Brexit threads like a rash. It's the 1960's all over again, bleedin' foreigners etc .....

Thank you for telling me my motives.

 

I appreciate that.

 

At least I can have a sensible discussion with BW even though I don't agree with him.

 

You, on the other hand ............................................. :rolleyes:

[Fromafar]

As far as I am aware not one of the current KLS team is riding solely for points money. A match fee guarantee is in place so that a rider failing to score will not fail to earn. I would like to hear from fans of other teams as to what they know exists generally in the UK re pay rates.

 

I also think that a lot of riders are on a gaurentees + bonus, espiecially double up/down guys.Could be wrong though! We will never know.Is there a published minimum pay rate for riders through the BSPA .

[BWitcher]

I think the double tr bollox is unfair because a beaten rider scoring more points than the rider who beat him is unfair.

 

Both the old ts and the double tr bollox are meant to make meetings closer and apparently the old ts rule was better at making meetings closer. I prefer closer meeting so even if I ignore the palpable unfairnes of a beaten rider scoring more than the rider he beat I prefer the old ts rule.

 

There is nothing at all to commend the double tr bollox.

 

The old ts meant you got to see the top riders in more heats and the beauty of watching your 16 year old reserve come out and beat Gundersen (who may have actually been world champion at the time?) from the back in heat 8 is one of those magic speedway moments I've witnessed and one of the reasons I still watch speedway.

 

Each to their own.

 

As said earlier, I don't think you'll find anyone who prefers the current system, me included for all those reasons you stated.

[hobnob]

ahh the good old days ts when 6pts behind and claim gates too, way better than this silly one double pts ride, the old rule gave team managers some work to do, and yes how many top riders went into ht8 and got done by a second string or a young reserve was great entertainment

[Fromafar]

Watching the Swedish play off from last night their rules regarding Tacticals seems very good Dackarna used 3 and it wS a close result but none of this double points nonsense. Janowski & Dudek only got 3rd places though in their rides.

[Gemini]

So how does theirs work?

[False dawn]

So how does theirs work?

Funny you should ask. I asked via Twitter and apparently it changed in Sweden this year. The rule now is that a team who is 8 or more behind (used to be 6) can introduce a tactical substitute. They can continue to do this until they are less than 8 behind. Each rider can only take one TS ride and no TS is allowed in heat 11, the reserves races.

ahh the good old days ts when 6pts behind and claim gates too, way better than this silly one double pts ride, the old rule gave team managers some work to do

People will be saying we're the same person hobnob. I've written almost identical posts more than once.

The TR rule is only any good if you get at least a 7-2 and it's a one shot affair. It can take a lot for a team to build a lead and to see it all but disappear in one race is daft. Tactical substitutions are more skillful in my opinion. Assuming each rider can only be used once, a team manager has to use his riders wisely and they still have to score the points fairly. Choice of gates is also a benefit to the losing side. Having started to analyse not only races won from each gate but also the points scored from each gate has revealed some interesting stats as a meeting unfolds. A team manager should be able to exploit this to his advantage when behind. Don't hog tie team managers and riders from making the most of legitimate tactics.

Edited August 30, 2017 by False dawn

[waiheke1]

I think the double tr bollox is unfair because a beaten rider scoring more points than the rider who beat him is unfair.

 

Both the old ts and the double tr bollox are meant to make meetings closer and apparently the old ts rule was better at making meetings closer. I prefer closer meeting so even if I ignore the palpable unfairnes of a beaten rider scoring more than the rider he beat I prefer the old ts rule.

 

There is nothing at all to commend the double tr bollox.

 

The old ts meant you got to see the top riders in more heats and the beauty of watching your 16 year old reserve come out and beat Gundersen (who may have actually been world champion at the time?) from the back in heat 8 is one of those magic speedway moments I've witnessed and one of the reasons I still watch speedway.

 

Each to their own.

Assuming Andy smith was the 16 year old, then it was a year prior to gunserssn being world champ (or otherwise he had turned 17)

Also remember him beating Lee from the back as a 17 year old reserve, though that didn't involve Lee being on a TS ride.

[False dawn]

Assuming Andy smith was the 16 year old, then it was a year prior to gunserssn being world champ (or otherwise he had turned 17)

Also remember him beating Lee from the back as a 17 year old reserve, though that didn't involve Lee being on a TS ride.

Oo, you are showing your age!

[Fromafar]

Funny you should ask. I asked via Twitter and apparently it changed in Sweden this year. The rule now is that a team who is 8 or more behind (used to be 6) can introduce a tactical substitute. They can continue to do this until they are less than 8 behind. Each rider can only take one TS ride and no TS is allowed in heat 11, the reserves races.

 

People will be saying we're the same person hobnob. I've written almost identical posts more than once.

The TR rule is only any good if you get at least a 7-2 and it's a one shot affair. It can take a lot for a team to build a lead and to see it all but disappear in one race is daft. Tactical substitutions are more skillful in my opinion. Assuming each rider can only be used once, a team manager has to use his riders wisely and they still have to score the points fairly. Choice of gates is also a benefit to the losing side. Having started to analyse not only races won from each gate but also the points scored from each gate has revealed some interesting stats as a meeting unfolds. A team manager should be able to exploit this to his advantage when behind. Don't hog tie team managers and riders from making the most of legitimate tactics.

 

Thanks I did not know the rules ,but it certainly seemed better,and even in the Tac rides the sub got beat except for Lindgren who was superb.

[steve roberts]

Thanks I did not know the rules ,but it certainly seemed better,and even in the Tac rides the sub got beat except for Lindgren who was superb.

Would be interesting to know by way of a vote whether people preferred the old system (in whatever shape or form) or the new one as regards the T/S ruling?