ouch Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 45 minutes ago, BurntFaceMan said: The only thing that would be considered cheating or unfair would be if Buster decided to take action against Poole. THAT would be the only injustice. The rules are written and agreed to by all clubs. You cannot start changing the rules because Poole made a good fist of them. Matt isn't even using loopholes! The clubs agreed on how averages need to be calculated and Matt Ford responded by investing the hours and working out the riders that are on the very best value averages. If anything it shows how lazy some other promoters are not to do the very same thing. If Poole hadn't have signed Wornya or Szczepaniak I'd doubt anybody else would even have considered them. Getting the most out of the rules is one of the most important parts of a sport. Understanding the rules and working out how to maximise your potential within them is almost as important as the racing that goes down on the track. It's impossible to think through every scenario when putting the rules together. The rules are put together on general consensus and then it is down to the teams to go away and make the rules work for them. Some promoters like Matt Ford appreciate this and get to work, whereas other promoters like Buster seem to have this "that'll save us a few quid, job done" attitude. Belle Vue had a very potent spearhead lined up in Bjerre and Cook but the rules were re written to block it. We turned to Zagar on his low average but again the rules were re written. Are you getting it yet? You have Holder coming back on a low average achieved with another club, all within the rules. A few years back we had the same thing with Jason Lyons, ironically he achieved his low average at Poole. Guess what, we couldn’t use him on that average as the rules were re written only to be re written again when it suited another club. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 It's amazing how the promoters don't close all loopholes, stopping signing of riders on false averages is a pretty simple one, isn't it? It's always, always been a contentious issue!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, BurntFaceMan said: The only thing that would be considered cheating or unfair would be if Buster decided to take action against Poole. THAT would be the only injustice. The rules are written and agreed to by all clubs. You cannot start changing the rules because Poole made a good fist of them. Matt isn't even using loopholes! The clubs agreed on how averages need to be calculated and Matt Ford responded by investing the hours and working out the riders that are on the very best value averages. If anything it shows how lazy some other promoters are not to do the very same thing. If Poole hadn't have signed Wornya or Szczepaniak I'd doubt anybody else would even have considered them. Getting the most out of the rules is one of the most important parts of a sport. Understanding the rules and working out how to maximise your potential within them is almost as important as the racing that goes down on the track. It's impossible to think through every scenario when putting the rules together. The rules are put together on general consensus and then it is down to the teams to go away and make the rules work for them. Some promoters like Matt Ford appreciate this and get to work, whereas other promoters like Buster seem to have this "that'll save us a few quid, job done" attitude. I find it very difficult to discuss speedway matters with Poole supporters, as most are blinded to the spirit of the sport and are only concerned about Poole Pirates. I hope you are not in that bracket. My concern was not directed as a battle between Buster and Matt Ford, but for the state of the sport in general.. I admire your admiration towards your boss Ford, but for you to think he is the only one putting in hours of work would be senseless. Once the sport was fought out on the track, when winning or losing was everything, but not anymore. Teams are not equal and result are predicable. That may be good for some teams, but for the sport in general its a big turnoff. The rules on assessment and out of date averages is the biggest problem of all. They appear to be altered to suit. I cannot believe there is a worse run organisation than British speedway. I have long advocated for the rules to be set in stone, illuminating these senseless yearly changes. but since when do the BSPA do anything constructive,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stbendfan Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, waytogo28 said: That is why Buster is one of the "richest" promoters, although "least poor" sounds more appropriate. The Stars team so far, fails to re-ignite my interest even with the likelihood of NKI returning. I would rather have seen Doyle signed or Lindgren for some "freshness". I think this has been the problem for many years at King's Lynn, the lack of new riders coming to the club. In the past we tend to stick with the same group of riders... i.e. Korneliussen, Porsing, Schlein who at times didn't deserve to be in the team but were signed for a following season after being dumped the previous year. I think the management lack confidence in moving away from who they know and have tried. I would have loved to see some fresh faces in the team, the likes of Garrity, Grajczonek or Manzares would have added a bit of personality for us fans to latch onto as well as adding bit of entertainment. King's Lynn has missed the personality from the riders in the PL days and unfortunately the current crop of Stars isn't going to engage with the fans in the same way. From what I can read between the lines of the press release from Brundle, he is going to make the riders engaging towards the fans but the only way it'll work is if the riders want to do it, not be told to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurntFaceMan Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, ouch said: Belle Vue had a very potent spearhead lined up in Bjerre and Cook but the rules were re written to block it. We turned to Zagar on his low average but again the rules were re written. Are you getting it yet? You have Holder coming back on a low average achieved with another club, all within the rules. A few years back we had the same thing with Jason Lyons, ironically he achieved his low average at Poole. Guess what, we couldn’t use him on that average as the rules were re written only to be re written again when it suited another club. Matt Ford isn't writing the rules. Get a grip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 hours ago, BurntFaceMan said: The only thing that would be considered cheating or unfair would be if Buster decided to take action against Poole. THAT would be the only injustice. The rules are written and agreed to by all clubs. You cannot start changing the rules because Poole made a good fist of them. Matt isn't even using loopholes! The clubs agreed on how averages need to be calculated and Matt Ford responded by investing the hours and working out the riders that are on the very best value averages. If anything it shows how lazy some other promoters are not to do the very same thing. If Poole hadn't have signed Wornya or Szczepaniak I'd doubt anybody else would even have considered them. Getting the most out of the rules is one of the most important parts of a sport. Understanding the rules and working out how to maximise your potential within them is almost as important as the racing that goes down on the track. It's impossible to think through every scenario when putting the rules together. The rules are put together on general consensus and then it is down to the teams to go away and make the rules work for them. Some promoters like Matt Ford appreciate this and get to work, whereas other promoters like Buster seem to have this "that'll save us a few quid, job done" attitude. Yep, I agree with all of that. But, firstly, Matt Ford doesn’t stop at that: he instructs riders not to ride or to have engine failures so he can reduce his team’s average and get a better rider in; and, secondly, he’s instrumental in certain rules to create “fairness” when it suits him (like the re-averaging of GP riders or one over eight) but then immediately takes advantage of out of date averages to sign Woryna and Bedpaniak, rather than suggest they be re-averaged in the interests of fairness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurntFaceMan Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, g13webb said: I find it very difficult to discuss speedway matters with Poole supporters, as most are blinded to the spirit of the sport and are only concerned about Poole Pirates. I hope you are not in that bracket. My concern was not directed as a battle between Buster and Matt Ford, but for the state of the sport in general.. I admire your admiration towards your boss Ford, but for you to think he is the only one putting in hours of work would be senseless. Once the sport was fought out on the track, when winning or losing was everything, but not anymore. Teams are not equal and result are predicable. That may be good for some teams, but for the sport in general its a big turnoff. The rules on assessment and out of date averages is the biggest problem of all. They appear to be altered to suit. I cannot believe there is a worse run organisation than British speedway. I have long advocated for the rules to be set in stone, illuminating these senseless yearly changes. but since when do the BSPA do anything constructive,, I am not blinded at all. The fact of the matter is Poole does not decide the rules. The rules are decided by the promoters. Matt Ford has been arguing for certain rule changes for years and has never made it past the vote. This year GSI had difficulty at the AGM because some promoters actually voted in favour of no TV coverage and unanimous decision was required. There are lots of initiatives and rule changes that not on Poole, but many other parties never get past the AGM. I know some people on here want to believe that Matt Ford has got some sort of leverage but the facts speak for themselves. Changes to the rules are not made without everybody being in agreement. This year the teams are very close. There are a couple of teams that look unlikely to do particularly well, but generally they are close. Poole has put all it's eggs in one basket. A couple of weeks ago everybody was saying that signing these Poles was a big risk and likely to backfire. Now everybody is acting like we've just signed 2 heat leaders at reserve. Poole has taken a huge risk and it may or may not pay off. If it doesn't pay off, I doubt they'll even make the play offs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Bloke Posted January 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 3 hours ago, waytogo28 said: That is why Buster is one of the "richest" promoters, although "least poor" sounds more appropriate. The Stars team so far, fails to re-ignite my interest even with the likelihood of NKI returning. I would rather have seen Doyle signed or Lindgren for some "freshness". That's how I should of put it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 3 hours ago, 1stbendfan said: I think this has been the problem for many years at King's Lynn, the lack of new riders coming to the club. In the past we tend to stick with the same group of riders... i.e. Korneliussen, Porsing, Schlein who at times didn't deserve to be in the team but were signed for a following season after being dumped the previous year. I think the management lack confidence in moving away from who they know and have tried. I would have loved to see some fresh faces in the team, the likes of Garrity, Grajczonek or Manzares would have added a bit of personality for us fans to latch onto as well as adding bit of entertainment. King's Lynn has missed the personality from the riders in the PL days and unfortunately the current crop of Stars isn't going to engage with the fans in the same way. From what I can read between the lines of the press release from Brundle, he is going to make the riders engaging towards the fans but the only way it'll work is if the riders want to do it, not be told to. Fans are so fickle, on one hand they say, we don't want teams to change year on year, on another, we want new riders .... promoters can't win! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 29 minutes ago, Trees said: Fans are so fickle, on one hand they say, we don't want teams to change year on year, on another, we want new riders .... promoters can't win! You're right. More than anything fans want continuity but only when things are going right. At King's Lynn though, they stick by rider's when clearly things ain't so and that's the issue. 2018 is turning into same old, same old. Iversen, Lambert, Rose, Kerr have been in a failing Stars side consistently, not saying any are to blame but if we want to improve, just shifting the furniture about doesn't cut it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 5 hours ago, BurntFaceMan said: I am not blinded at all. The fact of the matter is Poole does not decide the rules. The rules are decided by the promoters. Matt Ford has been arguing for certain rule changes for years and has never made it past the vote. This year GSI had difficulty at the AGM because some promoters actually voted in favour of no TV coverage and unanimous decision was required. There are lots of initiatives and rule changes that not on Poole, but many other parties never get past the AGM. I know some people on here want to believe that Matt Ford has got some sort of leverage but the facts speak for themselves. Changes to the rules are not made without everybody being in agreement. This year the teams are very close. There are a couple of teams that look unlikely to do particularly well, but generally they are close. Poole has put all it's eggs in one basket. A couple of weeks ago everybody was saying that signing these Poles was a big risk and likely to backfire. Now everybody is acting like we've just signed 2 heat leaders at reserve. Poole has taken a huge risk and it may or may not pay off. If it doesn't pay off, I doubt they'll even make the play offs. I for one think both Poles are quality riders, with previous knowledge of most tracks they will ride. I do not see any of the risk you talk of, and will forecast both will attain averages nearer to 7's than 6's . For this reason alone, I see this years league battle as a walk in the park for the strong Pirates side... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 6 hours ago, BurntFaceMan said: Matt Ford isn't writing the rules. Get a grip. According to some they are and some fans particularly Bell Vue ones have a massive chip on their shoulder and think the rules are only there to stop them from winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therefused Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Ford doesn’t write the rules, he convinces everyone else to do it for him 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 7 hours ago, BurntFaceMan said: Matt Ford isn't writing the rules. Get a grip. 1 hour ago, foreverblue said: According to some they are and some fans particularly Bell Vue ones have a massive chip on their shoulder and think the rules are only there to stop them from winning. Fiddling while Rome burns........again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scrutton Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 If you don't have IVERSEN DOYLE AND LINGREN How can you call it the Premier LEAGUE. On 10 December 2017 at 9:48 PM, Danny Connor said: Spot on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCOGNITO Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 So it appears that Poland have NOT relaxed the ruling on riders competing in more than two other leagues and that would seriously make Iversen unlikely to be the number one but at least there is other options without complications. Matej Zagar, Jaroslaw Hampel and Fredrik Lindgren have contracts in Sweden and Poland so could fit in another league and don't have clashes of dates with Danish Leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrss Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 Andreas Johnsson at number one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haza Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 minute ago, mrss said: Andreas Johnsson at number one? Not a bad call - we need a no1 and if no Iversen we will have to have who will come not who we want . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnboy Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 Fast Freddie would do for me and he is very good at Lynn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, INCOGNITO said: So it appears that Poland have NOT relaxed the ruling on riders competing in more than two other leagues and that would seriously make Iversen unlikely to be the number one but at least there is other options without complications. Matej Zagar, Jaroslaw Hampel and Fredrik Lindgren have contracts in Sweden and Poland so could fit in another league and don't have clashes of dates with Danish Leagues. Source? Poole fans on their thread seem quite confident that the rule has been dropped. Edited January 22, 2018 by Bagpuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.d3cdef72597637c8b8dc6df74490454a.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.