Kings Lynn 2018..

[MattK]

 

I've stated many ways to turn it around, over and over and over.

 

The same conversation has been had at the end of EVERY SINGLE season since the advent of this forum and before. Every single time the answer has been the same.. "Cut the standard and the costs". Every single time it has failed miserably and simply made the problem worse.

 

Pointless asking these head in the sands.

 

They seem to live in a fantasy world where everyone would flock to see junior racing.

 

As someone who season after season travelled the length and breadth of the country to every single home and away meeting before moving abroad (although when I am in England I still do the same), should the standard be cut to the levels proposed, I would be done. That's one of the most committed fans there is. Not only that I know of many, many others who wouldn't be interested, those that haven't already walked that is.

 

It is amazing how many fans ignore the evidence right in front of their noses because it doesn't fit their narrative.

[Daniel Smith]

Fans Do Not want NL racing, Young Stars attracted 150/200 people maybe?

 

Not exactly a true statement.

People weren't interested because the NL was our 2nd team and many couldn't justify the extra £12.

 

If the NL standards were the top league at £8-£10 attendance would double with ease.

 

As pointed out a few times, the riders mean nothing to attracting new fans.

Jason Doyle and Josh Bailey are the same to them.

Us existing fans know most of NL riders as we've become accustomed to them being thrown in the deep end recently in the top league.

 

To fix this sport is all in the promoters hands, losing supporters is their problem.

Promoters can blame other people as much as they like as it falls on deaf ears.

At the end of the day, if a club closes due to a lack of supporters through the turnstiles then that is firmly placed on their doorstep and theirs alone.

[Trees]

Moving to two nights a week will help on a few levels, will stop doubling up clashes, riders can more easily race here within their calendar, there will be interest of matches on the same night, more scope for TV.

 

It seems the GTR plan hasn't worked, why? Because they are different to GMs, good set ups are harder to achieve, riders do not have time to learn how to set them up, they need instant success to earn money, people tell me even youngsters who had them aren't using them anymore. It's a shame as it seemed a good idea.

 

I like the news re Glasgow widening their track and appreciate the fact the owners are rich but I'd like all promotions to consider their track shape, surface, material and preparation before and during meetings. As well as promotion of meetings before they happen and presentation during meetings.

[semion]

I think you maybe a little confused with your years.

 

Andy Moore left Sheffield in 2004.

 

Sheffield lined up for the match at Kings Lynn as follows;

 

Ricky Ashworth

Ben Wilson

Andre Compton

Paul Cooper

Joel Parsons

Jordan Frampton (Guest for James Birkinshaw)

James Cockle.

 

Sheffield had the same team apart from Birkinshaw rode for the 75- 15 loss.

Thanks Spin, Must be getting the seasons confused. The one I was referring to was when Lynn were coasting home on aggregate after heat 13 of the home leg only for Moore get 6 from the joker and then to gain a 5-1 with Sean Wilson in heat 15 for Sheffield to win by 1 point over the 2 legs.

[Star Lady]

Trees you miss the point completely. The future of the sport is about financial sustainability. Set ups, fixed nights, doubling up have nothing to aid that., nor to be frank do they attract new fans.

[semion]

Facts are it is a great sport, but too expensive to run on a professional level in this country with the crowds that are being pulled in.

 

So either you have to find a way of pulling more people in or you cheapen the Sport for the riders/Promoters.

 

When I think back just a few years ago to the days of the Club's time in the old Premier League, were riders such as Paul Lee, James Brundle, Adam Allot, Shaun Tacey, Chris Mills etc part time riders ? Was The enjoyment back then greater than it is now ?

Edited October 31, 2017 by semion

[MattK]

Trees you miss the point completely. The future of the sport is about financial sustainability. Set ups, fixed nights, doubling up have nothing to aid that., nor to be frank do they attract new fans.

 

Is it?

 

When has the sport ever been financially stable? Certainly not in the last decade. I am sure every club owner has lost money running their club.

 

When was the last time a club closed it's doors due to lack of finance?

[BWitcher]

 

Then for my benefit - and in particular Jonathan's, because surely he has right of redress - I would ask that you do so again.

 

It says everything that your view has already attracted adverse comment.

 

 

 

 

 

It says absolutely nothing that my view has attracted 'adverse comment'.

 

When my original proposals were made many years ago they garnered one of the highest number of likes ever seen on the forum. Many of those have long since stopped watching the sport. The damage done to the sport since is unforgiveable. We've had 20+ years of utterly wasted TV coverage.

Edited October 31, 2017 by BWitcher

[Trees]

Facts are it is a great sport, but too expensive to run on a professional level in this country with the crowds that are being pulled in.

 

So either you have to find a way of pulling more people in or you cheapen the Sport for the riders/Promoters.

 

When I think back just a few years ago to the days of the Club's time in the old Premier League, were riders such as Paul Lee, James Brundle, Adam Allot, Shaun Tacey, Chris Mills etc part time riders ? Was The enjoyment back then greater than it is now ?

So is it best to lower the quality of riders to attract new fans at a cheaper price or keep the sport at the level it is, & the price it is, but improve the promotion, the advertising and the race day experience, some think one thing, some another.... hard one!

 

Meg, you only quote part of my post, the changes I have quoted could well attract more fans. I'm not sure exactly what the answer is, it's about attracting new fans, to get younger people to things advertising is key, excitement is key, music, lights, fireworks and fire is perhaps the way to go, Brian Griffin wasn't far out 😊

Edited October 31, 2017 by Trees

[semion]

 

Is it?

 

When has the sport ever been financially stable? Certainly not in the last decade. I am sure every club owner has lost money running their club.

 

When was the last time a club closed it's doors due to lack of finance?

Why Did Scunthorpe's national League team close down, or Bournemouth ? Rye House Raiders ?

[BWitcher]

Trees you miss the point completely. The future of the sport is about financial sustainability. Set ups, fixed nights, doubling up have nothing to aid that., nor to be frank do they attract new fans.

 

Course not, doubling up has no effect at all does it!

 

Fans flock in their numbers to see a team of guests, you never see them complaining.

 

Fixed nights are absolutely imperative. It is an absolute insanity that the two leagues have continued to run on the same nights for so long allowing the identity of teams to be eroded.

[MattK]

So either you have to find a way of pulling more people in or you cheapen the Sport for the riders/Promoters.

 

We've tried cheapening the sport for the last decade. How has that worked out?

 

Maybe we should try the former?

Why Did Scunthorpe's national League team close down, or Bournemouth ? Rye House Raiders ?

 

Because running a NL side along side your existing team is a terrible idea unless you have a clever marketing angle, like Wolves.

 

NL teams do not attract any new fans, so you are entirely reliant on your existing fans attending more meetings.

[semion]

So is it best to lower the quality of riders to attract new fans at a cheaper price or keep the sport at the level it is, & the price it is, but improve the promotion, the advertising and the race day experience, some think one thing, some another.... hard one!

 

 

For me Trees, its all about the risk factor. To go with big names wanting big money hoping to attract more people ( what will they do different ?) or using lesser names on less money and making it more affordable to the paying public.

 

Maybe if Speedway was priced at a tenner would this make it more attractive, albeit with lesser names ? Speedway is after all about 4 riders in coloured helmets trying to win races... Does it matter who is under those helmets ? Is watching Chris Holder win a race from the game ( yes it did happen once or twice last season) is better than watching 2 lesser riders battle it out for 4 laps ?

[Grachan]

Well, this ludicrous idea to get rid of all riders over 6.00 seems relatively popular in King's Lynn anyway. Guess which team has only one rider with an average over 6.00 so would end up the strongest in the league. go on. Have a guess.

 

Speedway seemed to be doing pretty well about 10 years ago. Decent teams. Decent crowds. Every year since then it's been downgraded and downgraded. It's very frustrating as a supporter to have to put up with this every year. Last year they tried to force the best rider in the world out of the league and failed. Maybe they will try again this year. Let's hope not.

 

This new idea would mean Ben Barker is too strong a rider for the top flight. Any suggestions as to what he should do with his speedway career?

 

Wolves would lose their entire top 5. Swindon their top 4. But, hey, who cares? At least King's Lynn would probably finally win the league.

[Star Lady]

So is it best to lower the quality of riders to attract new fans at a cheaper price or keep the sport at the level it is, & the price it is, but improve the promotion, the advertising and the race day experience, some think one thing, some another.... hard one!

 

Meg, you only quote part of my post, the changes I have quoted could well attract more fans. I'm not sure exactly what the answer is, it's about attracting new fans, to get younger people to things advertising is key, excitement is key, music, lights, fireworks and fire is perhaps the way to go, Brian Griffin wasn't far out

 

 

If you want to attract new fans yes you do have to lower the price. All the extra entertainment in the world is not going to tempt newbies into the stadia. There has to be a drive to increase the numbers coming in couples with adding extra entertainment ( you know I'm a massive advocate of that) but adding extra entertainment (and cost) just to keep the die hards happy will not work.

 

 

 

 

 

Fans flock in their numbers to see a team of guests, you never see them complaining.

 

Fixed nights are absolutely imperative. It is an absolute insanity that the two leagues have continued to run on the same nights for so long allowing the identity of teams to be eroded.

 

All those flocking is what leads to clubs constantly complaining they are losing money (I assume you forgot to add a sarcastic smilie ) I agree fixed nights would help in many ways but it is far from the be all and end all.

 

For me Trees, its all about the risk factor. To go with big names wanting big money hoping to attract more people ( what will they do different ?) or using lesser names on less money and making it more affordable to the paying public.

 

Maybe if Speedway was priced at a tenner would this make it more attractive, albeit with lesser names ? Speedway is after all about 4 riders in coloured helmets trying to win races... Does it matter who is under those helmets ? Is watching Chris Holder win a race from the game ( yes it did happen once or twice last season) is better than watching 2 lesser riders battle it out for 4 laps ?

 

Spot on semion flower , get em in the gates, make them love the sport and then and only then can you put the price up and start to afford to pay nearer to what many riders now demand.

 

There is nothing to stop any club putting on non league four team tournaments etc with GP standard riders as an extra fixture to league racing, if they think they can pull in the punters/sponsors to make it pay. In some cases i.e Poole it would make sense during the holiday season but the bread and butter has to be a lower priced league structure, at least for a few years.

[Trees]

For me Trees, its all about the risk factor. To go with big names wanting big money hoping to attract more people ( what will they do different ?) or using lesser names on less money and making it more affordable to the paying public.

 

Maybe if Speedway was priced at a tenner would this make it more attractive, albeit with lesser names ? Speedway is after all about 4 riders in coloured helmets trying to win races... Does it matter who is under those helmets ? Is watching Chris Holder win a race from the game ( yes it did happen once or twice last season) is better than watching 2 lesser riders battle it out for 4 laps ?

From my personal point of view I want our riders to race as a team, for our team, to have great team spirit, to enjoy racing for Lynn, to have a good rapport with the fans so we are together as a club. Yes of course we can have a Championship team doing just this or a NL team doing it. I can get enjoyment from all levels of speedway

 

It's the lack of fans that keep the costs up soooo perhaps it doesn't matter which league you're in, the promoter has to get out there promoting the club, attracting new people and when they come through the turnstiles give them a treat, give them something to do at all times so they can't get bored/put off. Test Your Gating Reactions comp to run for the season so the fans keep coming back, fun photo booth, selfie comps on twitter, competition to win a free entrance ticket, put time and effort into the music, get the mic man giving interesting info about riders last meetings, club meetings, show footage on the big screen etc, special guests etc etc

[B.V 72]

Not exactly a true statement.

People weren't interested because the NL was our 2nd team and many couldn't justify the extra £12.

 

If the NL standards were the top league at £8-£10 attendance would double with ease.

 

As pointed out a few times, the riders mean nothing to attracting new fans.

Jason Doyle and Josh Bailey are the same to them.

Us existing fans know most of NL riders as we've become accustomed to them being thrown in the deep end recently in the top league.

 

To fix this sport is all in the promoters hands, losing supporters is their problem.

Promoters can blame other people as much as they like as it falls on deaf ears.

At the end of the day, if a club closes due to a lack of supporters through the turnstiles then that is firmly placed on their doorstep and theirs alone.

 

 

Here we have an example of what most fans want.

Fans had an option of watching top riders at top prices or lower classed riders at a lower price which team did the fans choose and which team went to the wall through lack of support.

If making speedway cheaper with lesser riders is the way to go why did the fans not flock to watch the National league team and leave the expensive Premier team to flounder instead.

Belle vue had an awesome National league team this year who went on to win the league.With a £10 pound entrance fee and under 18s free.I feel that for National league racing they had decent crowds but far far far less than the Premier team at £17 to £23 a head.

So bums on seats tell me that a team filled with lesser riders will not bring the crowds flocking back.(even a league winning team).

I think fixed nights stopping meeting clashes which cause R/R and loads of guests is the better way to go with a settled team to watch every meeting.I think that fans will be happier with a regular 1 to 7 to watch every week than watching a team full of far lesser riders every week.

This is only my opinion but I watch both the Aces and Colts every meeting and I see on the whole far better closer racing when watching the better riders in the Aces team.

So the better riders deliver better speedway to watch and that's what we all go to see is it not.

Edited October 31, 2017 by B.V 72

[BWitcher]

 

Not exactly a true statement.

People weren't interested because the NL was our 2nd team and many couldn't justify the extra £12.

 

If the NL standards were the top league at £8-£10 attendance would double with ease.

 

As pointed out a few times, the riders mean nothing to attracting new fans.

Jason Doyle and Josh Bailey are the same to them.

Us existing fans know most of NL riders as we've become accustomed to them being thrown in the deep end recently in the top league.

 

To fix this sport is all in the promoters hands, losing supporters is their problem.

Promoters can blame other people as much as they like as it falls on deaf ears.

At the end of the day, if a club closes due to a lack of supporters through the turnstiles then that is firmly placed on their doorstep and theirs alone.

 

Quite possibly one of the most deluded posts I have ever seen.

 

Attendances don't double when top level meetings now are run at £10, yes they go up, but they don't double.

 

Reduce clubs like Wolverhampton and Poole to NL standard, they'd be lucky to get half of their crowd, regardless of cost.

 

Wolves had a National League level team once, they even had club legend Graham Jones come out of retirement to lead it. Vastly reduced prices. They were lucky to get 50 paying supporters. The much more expensive top flight team with the 'names' was pulling in decent crowds.

Edited October 31, 2017 by BWitcher

[Lord Skid]

Only one person to blame, and that's the dumbarse Promoters who pay out more than they can afford, all in the name of winning a piece of silver/plastic ware.

Don't blame the riders or tuners, nobody makes a Promoter pay the stupid deals they are signing up to.

As one multiple World Champion said to me, they don't have to agree to my deal.

[ouch]

My first job in sales many decades ok was with a manufacturing company who went about their business as a sales company. Ive subsequently worked for or with manufacturing companies how conduct business as a manufacturer and whilst they have a marketing and sales operation the general feeling is if we make it people will use it and more often than not they never realise the companies true potential.

 

Rob Godfrey recently said in The Star that he would be happy with 500 punters. 500! If you think your product is a 500 customer product your bolloxed. Sell it to get more in.

 

We need to recapture market share and IMO we have the product to do it. We need to iron out these basic niggles that we fans are constantly bringing up. Youve got free market research here, use it.

If promotions havent worked in the past, why not and how can it be improved. Why are some clubs more successful than others and why cant it be replicated across the board. There just seems this malaise that its a bit rubbish isnt it.

 

People running successful businesses seem to leave their business brains at home once they take charge of a club. Did people just wander in of the street to buy off these companies or was the brand sold and marketed?

 

Treat your customers right and they will do some of the selling for you. Grab their data and use it for marketing. Set targets. Be a business.

Never let a customer walk away. It would help your mindset if you started to refer to us as customers instead of fans.

 

Selling has been done with other forms of leisure activities including other sports so why not our, and I mean why not ours? There must be quantifiable reasons that can serve as a spring board for moving forward. A problem is just an opportunity if handled correctly.

 

Ive had all the excuses in the book as to why sales are down or why an area is failing and a large percentage are just that, excuses. Come up with a work around and get things moving, dont use it as a reason to do nothing.

 

If clubs really think they cannot get another 1000 spectators through the gate to top up what we have and thus make JC stats add up then we are in a poor state.

 

Nowadays £225k to £250k a year new business sales target is low for a jobbing salesman in any given area. Its got to be achievable, it must be.

 

We dont need to dumb down.....again.