Kings Lynn 2018..

[DWP]

I know and you are a long way out

I know to and yes they are way way out.

[Theboss]

A riders remuneration package is usually made up of multiple factors with different rates for each.

 

1. A sign on fee which a rider may use to purchase equipment and get set up for season ahead.

 

2. Contribution towards travel to each meeting, including flight costs.

 

3. Contribution to accomodation costs ( sometimes required by the home office to obtain a work visa).

 

4. Guaranteed minimum earnings per match.

 

5. Tyre, oil and insurance costs

 

6. Contribution towards or supply of a mechanic

 

7. A fixed rate per point scored (including bonus points) which may increase or decrease based on team position. It may also have a step up in rate if the rider scores more than his average points.

 

When all this is combined and spread out across the whole team it is fair to say that based on 50 points being scored each meeting (including bonus points) the average cost per point was around £200 when I was running the team in the elite league. Since I left this has increased significantly and I would estimate it is around £300 per point.

 

This means each home meeting requires £30k of income (after VAT) to cover rider costs plus another £5k to cover rent and auxiliary costs such as paramedics.

 

The sky money (which ceases to exist after this season) would probably cover 30% of that and gate receipts another 30-40%. Each club then needs to rely on sponsorship and generous beneficiaries to make up the short fall.

 

That ladies and gentlemen is unfortunately why the sport is in the doo doos and I do not see how it can survive next year without a major revamp including cost cutting. Believe me the fixed race nights are the least of its problems.

Edited October 27, 2017 by jchapman

[woofers]

Good post by JC.

It should probably be copied into all those 'state of speedway', 'future of speedway' and 'speedway solutions' threads that are riddled throughout the forum.

[A ORLOV]

A riders remuneration package is usually made up of multiple factors with different rates for each.

 

1. A sign on fee which a rider may use to purchase equipment and get set up for season ahead.

 

2. Contribution towards travel to each meeting, including flight costs.

 

3. Contribution to accomodation costs ( sometimes required by the home office to obtain a work visa).

 

4. Guaranteed minimum earnings per match.

 

5. Tyre, oil and insurance costs

 

6. Contribution towards or supply of a mechanic

 

7. A fixed rate per point scored (including bonus points) which may increase or decrease based on team position. It may also have a step up in rate if the rider scores more than his average points.

 

When all this is combined and spread out across the whole team it is fair to say that based on 50 points being scored each meeting (including bonus points) the average cost per point was around £200 when I was running the team in the elite league. Since I left this has increased significantly and I would estimate it is around £300 per point.

 

This means each home meeting requires £30k of income (after VAT) to cover rider costs plus another £5k to cover rent and auxiliary costs such as paramedics.

 

The sky money (which ceases to exist after this season) would probably cover 30% of that and gate receipts another 30-40%. Each club then needs to rely on sponsorship and generous beneficiaries to make up the short fall.

 

That ladies and gentlemen is unfortunately why the sport is in the doo doos and I do not see how it can survive next year without a major revamp including cost cutting. Believe me the fixed race nights are the least of its problems.

So as thought, if tv money stops and TR does not come up a main speedway sponsor pouring in lots of money, something has got to change, either lower pay for riders or less clubs at the top level.

[g13webb]

A riders remuneration package is usually made up of multiple factors with different rates for each.

 

1. A sign on fee which a rider may use to purchase equipment and get set up for season ahead.

 

2. Contribution towards travel to each meeting, including flight costs.

 

3. Contribution to accomodation costs ( sometimes required by the home office to obtain a work visa).

 

4. Guaranteed minimum earnings per match.

 

5. Tyre, oil and insurance costs

 

6. Contribution towards or supply of a mechanic

 

7. A fixed rate per point scored (including bonus points) which may increase or decrease based on team position. It may also have a step up in rate if the rider scores more than his average points.

 

When all this is combined and spread out across the whole team it is fair to say that based on 50 points being scored each meeting (including bonus points) the average cost per point was around £200 when I was running the team in the elite league. Since I left this has increased significantly and I would estimate it is around £300 per point.

 

This means each home meeting requires £30k of income (after VAT) to cover rider costs plus another £5k to cover rent and auxiliary costs such as paramedics.

 

The sky money (which ceases to exist after this season) would probably cover 30% of that and gate receipts another 30-40%. Each club then needs to rely on sponsorship and generous beneficiaries to make up the short fall.

 

That ladies and gentlemen is unfortunately why the sport is in the doo doos and I do not see how it can survive next year without a major revamp including cost cutting. Believe me the fixed race nights are the least of its problems.

 

Cheers J,C. , for the insight of speedway finance. One can easily see why the sport is struggling like it is. This is a prime example where the costs need to be cut to suit the material. It is crazy to think we only have one level of machinery and expect small league attendances to fund these expensive machines. For this sport to survive, we need to separate the SGP as the Elite and operate league racing on a cheaper scale. Failing that, the sport will just die...

 

Back in mid 70's when Neil Street brought his 4 valve to Lynn , Terry Betts said the sport cant afford that kind of expense. Admission would have to increase and the fans would have to bear the blunt.... Causing many to stop coming...... What a pity they didn't listen to him.....

Edited October 27, 2017 by GRW123

[waytogo28]

jchapman wrote " This means each home meeting requires £30k of income (after VAT) to cover rider costs plus another £5k to cover rent and auxiliary costs such as paramedics.

The sky money (which ceases to exist after this season) would probably cover 30% of that and gate receipts another 30-40%. Each club then needs to rely on sponsorship and generous beneficiaries to make up the short fall.

That ladies and gentlemen is unfortunately why the sport is in the doo doos and I do not see how it can survive next year without a major revamp including cost cutting. Believe me the fixed race nights are the least of its problems."

 

Plus more enlightening info. on speedway finances.

 

So now we know - Thank You jchapman - in the PL riders are currently well paid for their efforts. As it should be but without the Sky cash, where is the rest coming from? Essential cost cutting, more sponsors or what?

Edited October 27, 2017 by waytogo28

[Haza]

A riders remuneration package is usually made up of multiple factors with different rates for each.

 

1. A sign on fee which a rider may use to purchase equipment and get set up for season ahead.

 

2. Contribution towards travel to each meeting, including flight costs.

 

3. Contribution to accomodation costs ( sometimes required by the home office to obtain a work visa).

 

4. Guaranteed minimum earnings per match.

 

5. Tyre, oil and insurance costs

 

6. Contribution towards or supply of a mechanic

 

7. A fixed rate per point scored (including bonus points) which may increase or decrease based on team position. It may also have a step up in rate if the rider scores more than his average points.

 

When all this is combined and spread out across the whole team it is fair to say that based on 50 points being scored each meeting (including bonus points) the average cost per point was around £200 when I was running the team in the elite league. Since I left this has increased significantly and I would estimate it is around £300 per point.

 

This means each home meeting requires £30k of income (after VAT) to cover rider costs plus another £5k to cover rent and auxiliary costs such as paramedics.

 

The sky money (which ceases to exist after this season) would probably cover 30% of that and gate receipts another 30-40%. Each club then needs to rely on sponsorship and generous beneficiaries to make up the short fall.

 

That ladies and gentlemen is unfortunately why the sport is in the doo doos and I do not see how it can survive next year without a major revamp including cost cutting. Believe me the fixed race nights are the least of its problems.

great post JC very interesting- so 30-40 % comes from the fans paying there £17 so it beggars belief as to why fans are not treated like VIPs by clubs and also why some effort isnt put into attracting new fans I cant get my head around why in my opinion fans are taken for granted in such a way .

[Bunce]

Excellent post JC, and very well explained. I'm even more depressed than I was before! Do you think the expenditure would be much less if the Stars ran in the Championship League? I thought the whole idea of being in the Premiership was to see the Worlds best riders, but with hardly any GP riders in the UK, and lots of doubling up, the product has been watered down to the stage where fans like me couldn't give a toss about what league we are in, I just want to see good, exciting racing every week with the same team members. (injuries excepted) but with so many matches across the UK running with R/R and guests, is it a wonder interest is waning. I'm sure we have all seen the team line ups with R/R and several guests giving the fans only a couple of their actual team members! I don't have the answer, and I'm sure we all have our own ideas, but reading JC's post makes the reality of the sports survival even more bleak.

[AlexBrady]

A riders remuneration package is usually made up of multiple factors with different rates for each.

 

1. A sign on fee which a rider may use to purchase equipment and get set up for season ahead.

 

2. Contribution towards travel to each meeting, including flight costs.

 

3. Contribution to accomodation costs ( sometimes required by the home office to obtain a work visa).

 

4. Guaranteed minimum earnings per match.

 

5. Tyre, oil and insurance costs

 

6. Contribution towards or supply of a mechanic

 

7. A fixed rate per point scored (including bonus points) which may increase or decrease based on team position. It may also have a step up in rate if the rider scores more than his average points.

 

When all this is combined and spread out across the whole team it is fair to say that based on 50 points being scored each meeting (including bonus points) the average cost per point was around £200 when I was running the team in the elite league. Since I left this has increased significantly and I would estimate it is around £300 per point.

 

This means each home meeting requires £30k of income (after VAT) to cover rider costs plus another £5k to cover rent and auxiliary costs such as paramedics.

 

The sky money (which ceases to exist after this season) would probably cover 30% of that and gate receipts another 30-40%. Each club then needs to rely on sponsorship and generous beneficiaries to make up the short fall.

 

That ladies and gentlemen is unfortunately why the sport is in the doo doos and I do not see how it can survive next year without a major revamp including cost cutting. Believe me the fixed race nights are the least of its problems.

Incredibly interesting and insightful, and as other posters have alluded too - perhaps a little scary.

 

There's no doubt that these riders deserve the very best pay for the job they produce, it is a skilled profession that with the added risk element, means there are very few who can fill the role - but at these numbers, the question is how long is this sustainable for?

 

Keeping it related to the Stars, I sincerely hope that the fans will continue to back the club, even with the 'rough' couple of years we have had following them, and allow the current/potential new promotion to learn from their mistakes, most notably communication.

 

Finally, a question to Jon - I recall a meeting which I believe was in the premier trophy in March 2007, where Kings Lynn Beat Sheffield 75-15, one of the most surreal things I've seen in this sport. Based on the above numbers, does there ever become a point where the promotion is hoping that their riders don't win races, to keep costs down? I'm sure I know the answer, but I would be interested to know your views.

 

Alex

[SteveLyric2]

If JC's summary of current finances is accurate - and I have no reason to think it isn't - why is there all this strong talk of an expanded senior league of 10-12 clubs, on fixed nights which might attract back some top riders?!

 

It seems to me that those clubs in the 'doo-doo' (with some suggesting possible closure) are all in the Championship - so maybe its there that costs need to be reduced even further to a realistic level.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Skidder1

[mrss]

Never mind worrying about next season. I still haven't had a refund from this years rain off v Rye House.

[racers and royals]

Never mind worrying about next season. I still haven't had a refund from this years rain off v Rye House.

I would send them a recorded delivery letter- giving them 14 days to respond with payment.

If you hear nothing https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/after-you-make-your-claim

[kingbee]

I think the riders have to start getting realistic about costs and return to one bike on a trailer instead of three in a big van with all mod cons.And the promotion keep a track spare maintained by them

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

Im sure there are a number of promotions that effectively have 'a track spare'

 

It may be broken down into its component parts rather that fully built but its still there.

[Theboss]

I would send them a recorded delivery letter- giving them 14 days to respond with payment.

If you hear nothing https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/after-you-make-your-claim

Again additional costs will be occured by the innocent party. Great shame it has come to this.

[PHILIPRISING]

VERY few tracks try to raise significant funds outside of gate revenue and sponsorship. Many small football clubs only exist by staging a host of extra activities which bring in significant sums of money. To borrow a phrase from a well known supermarket ... every little bit helps.

[kingbee]

Im sure there are a number of promotions that effectively have 'a track spare'

It may be broken down into its component parts rather that fully built but its still there.

I don't think so with the amount of bikes in the pits they wouldn't need one

[Theboss]

 

So now we know - Thank You jchapman - in the PL riders are currently well paid for their efforts. As it should be but without the Sky cash, where is the rest coming from? Essential cost cutting, more sponsors or what?

The main expense is professional riders and they will not want to cut their costs as they need to ride the best machines and compete at the highest level, just as they do in every other country

 

The reality is british speedway can no longer afford these riders and therefore needs to focus on semi professional riders.... Just like we had in our successful premier league days.

 

However there are not enough of these to go around and their packages have reached a level far higher than it should be due to them trying to buy equipment that can match the top riders.

 

An attempt was made to remedy the problem with double up riders but this has backfired and created its own monster, with many now deciding to become full time professionals rather than semi pros.

 

The best days are behind the sport and now it needs to go backwards to try and rebuild with a long term plan rather than living hand to mouth every year.

 

I would personally have only two leagues of 12 teams (one semi pro and one amateur). In the top league restrict teams from building with any riders over a 6 point average, no GP riders and no riders who ride in more than one other country. Put in place a total team spend of £5k per match and riders pay terms have to be registered with BSPA. Any clubs trying to get smart and work a way around it will be fined £10k.

 

Riders will then have to cut their cloth accordingly but clubs will be able to survive and start to invest money into marketing which will drive growth for the future.

[Halifaxtiger]

great post JC very interesting- so 30-40 % comes from the fans paying there £17 so it beggars belief as to why fans are not treated like VIPs by clubs and also why some effort isnt put into attracting new fans I cant get my head around why in my opinion fans are taken for granted in such a way .

 

And therein lies one of speedway's worst failings. Many still believe they are doing us a favour rather than the other way around (or at least it is mutual).

 

That simply has to change.

 

 

I think the riders have to start getting realistic about costs and return to one bike on a trailer instead of three in a big van with all mod cons.And the promotion keep a track spare maintained by them

 

Absolutely Sometimes I think the sport is run entirely for their benefit (and I think they think so too).

 

They have to get real. Speedway is not and, aside from the top boys, never has been a full time occupation.

 

 

I don't like to keep banging on about Isle of Wight but they really have set a standard. A huge amount of effort goes into promoting the club, attracting sponsors and seeking revenue streams outside the ordinary. Then when people actually go, even more effort is put into creating exactly the right sort of experience and atmosphere on race nights because it isn't just about the racing. The attitude of the promotion is - for speedway - a truly remarkable one : they listen and respond without hostility or aggression.

 

This has attracted credit from almost every person that attends (try and find an adverse comment anywhere) including from the likes of Bob C & Arnie G, two respected, long term and well travelled speedway fans and gates - based upon the previous promotion - are up spectacularly. This season, they broke even with a team that is likely to finish bottom of the NL.

 

The promotion are not fools nor do they regard speedway as a plaything. Good money will not be chucked after bad, unreasonable demands are refused and the business has to pay for itself.

 

So what we have is a promotion that puts everything into attracting and retaining fans and giving the best night out possible but at the same time remains entirely financially responsible. If that's not a blueprint for other clubs, I really don't know what is and if they can do it, why can't everyone else ?

Edited October 28, 2017 by Halifaxtiger

[g13webb]

The main expense is professional riders and they will not want to cut their costs as they need to ride the best machines and compete at the highest level, just as they do in every other country

 

The reality is british speedway can no longer afford these riders and therefore needs to focus on semi professional riders.... Just like we had in our successful premier league days.

 

However there are not enough of these to go around and their packages have reached a level far higher than it should be due to them trying to buy equipment that can match the top riders.

 

An attempt was made to remedy the problem with double up riders but this has backfired and created its own monster, with many now deciding to become full time professionals rather than semi pros.

 

The best days are behind the sport and now it needs to go backwards to try and rebuild with a long term plan rather than living hand to mouth every year.

 

I would personally have only two leagues of 12 teams (one semi pro and one amateur). In the top league restrict teams from building with any riders over a 6 point average, no GP riders and no riders who ride in more than one other country. Put in place a total team spend of £5k per match and riders pay terms have to be registered with BSPA. Any clubs trying to get smart and work a way around it will be fined £10k.

 

Riders will then have to cut their cloth accordingly but clubs will be able to survive and start to invest money into marketing which will drive growth for the future.

 

Sure is a big reality check John !! , but something like this has been coming for some time. Most meetings I go to, I look round and see barely a few hundred people, wondering how the hell does this pay, when in fact it doesn't. The situation is, we have promoters like Buster, doing everything possible to make the track rideable,to get the meeting on, and riders finding any excuse not to race, a scenario built purely on the financial burden. Riders today want way too much for little in return. they have no respect for their team, their team mates, or the fans. All they think about is themselves and how much they can get, without one thought of the sport, of the future... or who is going to pay for it...

 

I like your idea John, It makes perfect sense to take control costs, and for riders to get back to reality. But most of all its a sustainable program, one that can prosper in the years ahead. What we have now is just a recipe of disaster .

 

The BSPA cant continue to bury their heads in the sand....

 

NB.. It would be interesting to find out what the Clubs 'Breakeven Figures' of attendance are, and how many of our clubs achieved that....