Arthur54 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 If the rumours are right, holder could be visiting as a Poole rider next season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Ward Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 If the rumours are right, holder could be visiting as a Poole rider next seasonjust enough rain pre meeting not to be called off would be nice def slow him down 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Chris Holder did not come to KL with any sincere interest in the club. He only came because he had had a spat with Matt Ford and needed a job ( and possibly a visa ) in the UK - for his convenience. What happened is mostly down to his intransigence, although Buster was partially at fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 If the rumours are right, holder could be visiting as a Poole rider next season I have no doubt Holder will be back at Poole next year, and will show he can ride the track far better than he made us believe he can. .... Up until last year I had the utmost respect for Holder as a man and as a rider, but unfortunate his behaviour sure squashed those ideas. Looking back now, I believe his form was calculated, knowing he would be back in Dorset next year. Also him saying how much he disliked riding the AFA was a smoke screen purely to justify his poor showing. The bit that really got to me was he showed no appreciation to the fans at all. Just because he was at loggerheads with Buster, doesn't explain why he dismissed the fans like he did. We all know had that match in July been against any other club, but Poole, there would have been no problem.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Bloke Posted October 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 I have no doubt Holder will be back at Poole next year, and will show he can ride the track far better than he made us believe he can. .... Up until last year I had the utmost respect for Holder as a man and as a rider, but unfortunate his behaviour sure squashed those ideas. Looking back now, I believe his form was calculated, knowing he would be back in Dorset next year. Also him saying how much he disliked riding the AFA was a smoke screen purely to justify his poor showing. The bit that really got to me was he showed no appreciation to the fans at all. Just because he was at loggerheads with Buster, doesn't explain why he dismissed the fans like he did. We all know had that match in July been against any other club, but Poole, there would have been no problem.... I did wonder,because he flew at Poole the night before,and it was said that he got a good reception.He deffo showed Ford what he can do,then the next night he wasn't interested... If he rides for Poole next season and the track is how it was "that night" at Lynn again,i wonder how many people would put money on him refusing to ride for Ford...Not many would be my guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Out of interest how did you come to that figure? Im surprised its not higher I took all the Premiership averages from 2017 and compared them to 2016 Elite League averages. There were 45 riders who rode both years, 11 riders dropped (which was surprising), 2 stayed the same and 22 increased. I then took the average of the changes (very blunt approach I know) and it came to 1.079, which I politely rounded up. You could get more sophisticated by removing the extremes, e.g. Holder, whose average dropped by 20% and Schlein whose rose by 50% and riders who rode less than say 20 meetings, but at the end of the day I don't think it would make a fundamental difference. Therefore I concluded that the 2017 league is 8% weaker than the 2016 league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.V 72 Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) I took all the Premiership averages from 2017 and compared them to 2016 Elite League averages. There were 45 riders who rode both years, 11 riders dropped (which was surprising), 2 stayed the same and 22 increased. I then took the average of the changes (very blunt approach I know) and it came to 1.079, which I politely rounded up. You could get more sophisticated by removing the extremes, e.g. Holder, whose average dropped by 20% and Schlein whose rose by 50% and riders who rode less than say 20 meetings, but at the end of the day I don't think it would make a fundamental difference. Therefore I conclude the 2017 league is 8% weaker than the 2016 league. I think that they have done enough now with percentages and just leave the riders on whatever average they have from last year so everyone knows where they are up to(assessed GP riders on a 7 is a joke and wants looking at).There might be a few bargain riders out there but you get that most years anyway. Down to a few riders having a poor season the year before carrying an injury out of form poor equipment etc.A few riders ups and downs this year will be down to form and other reasons as above. Eg Jason Doyle 9.58 average in 2016 9.69 average in 2017 if the best rider in the world cannot up his average that much then I can't see Iversen upping his 9.04 average that much. Edited October 25, 2017 by B.V 72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clambo71 Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Why on earth would NKI return to race for the Stars IF the pay rates - as we are assured, are way less than £200 per point in the PL? When he was racing it was common knowledge that the KL share of the Sky fee went on keeping him in the team. Now that there is no such thing ( is there? or not?) it would take another major sponsor to pay his wages.Where did you get this assurance that the pay rates in the PL are way less than £200 per point.You started a thread on pay structure stating that all riders in the PL were on £200 per point minimum and were taken to task by posters saying a lot of riders were on a lot less than that figure,but that does not mean many were on more including riders like NKI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Where did you get this assurance that the pay rates in the PL are way less than £200 per point.You started a thread on pay structure stating that all riders in the PL were on £200 per point minimum and were taken to task by posters saying a lot of riders were on a lot less than that figure,but that does not mean many were on more including riders like NKI From those supposedly "in the know" posters! I did not believe them of course At least the top two in PL teams are on £200 a point plus. And I don't believe that anyone is on £50 per point in the PL. Not, at least without a meeting guarantee of £500 a meeting. But when a former promoter tells you you are "talking nonsense " and "plucking figures out of the air" it's best to let them go their own way. It was tongue in cheek "assurance". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Bloke Posted October 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) Theres so many different deals.Each rider has different deals.Some of the top riders are on a fixed wage,no matter what they score. Some might be on £500 plus £100 a point.Others could be on £300 plus £100 a point.Reserves might be on £300 plus £50 a point. Who knows Edited October 25, 2017 by Bald Bloke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 I took all the Premiership averages from 2017 and compared them to 2016 Elite League averages. There were 45 riders who rode both years, 11 riders dropped (which was surprising), 2 stayed the same and 22 increased. I then took the average of the changes (very blunt approach I know) and it came to 1.079, which I politely rounded up. You could get more sophisticated by removing the extremes, e.g. Holder, whose average dropped by 20% and Schlein whose rose by 50% and riders who rode less than say 20 meetings, but at the end of the day I don't think it would make a fundamental difference. Therefore I concluded that the 2017 league is 8% weaker than the 2016 league. Were the riders whose averages dropped those with inflated averages from riding reserve in 2016? I presume the only riders who may have skipped 2017 but return in 2018 are likely to be HL? Would be interesting to see the multiplier if you base it on riders who rode in 2016 predominantly as HL. Id expect it to be a chunk higher than 1.08. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 Theres so many different deals.Each rider has different deals.Some of the top riders are on a fixed wage,no matter what they score. Some might be on £500 plus £100 a point.Others could be on £300 plus £100 a point.Reserves might be on £300 plus £50 a point. Who knows I suspect now that you are right, there is NO "basic pay rate". As the promoters have been so successful in cutting great rider pay deals in the past , let the Del Boy style continue to reap the dividends it has previously. Drop the blazers and have sheepskin coats all round? Every club does seem to have one or two Triggers around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 Were the riders whose averages dropped those with inflated averages from riding reserve in 2016? A mixed bag really: Clegg Max -1.15 Holder Chris -1.79 Kasprzak Krzysztof -1.05 Newman Kyle -0.66 Kennett Edward -0.77 Klindt Nicolai -0.58 King Danny -0.56 Porsing Niklas -0.26 Hougaard Patrick -0.13 Auty Josh -0.02 Ellis Adam -0.02 I'll upload the spreadsheet when I get home. I presume the only riders who may have skipped 2017 but return in 2018 are likely to be HL? Riders who missed 2017 but ride in 2016 include Bech, Bridger, Buczkowski, Iversen, Jacobs, Jonsson, Korneliussen, Simon Lambert, Mear, Stefan Nielsen, Bjarne Pedersen, Roynon, Sarjeant, Swiderski, Ulamek, Walasek, Woffinden, Woryna, Wozniak and Zagar. Poole seemingly assume they are signing Woryna on his 2016 average of 4.65. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theboss Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 Theres so many different deals.Each rider has different deals.Some of the top riders are on a fixed wage,no matter what they score. Some might be on £500 plus £100 a point.Others could be on £300 plus £100 a point.Reserves might be on £300 plus £50 a point. Who knows I know and you are a long way out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 Don't forget riders receive a decent sum in one lump before a wheel is turned th n again during the season followed by a further 'bonus' come the end of the season. That has to be factored in with points, start and travelling money. How close is that one JC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMungo Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 Don't forget riders receive a decent sum in one lump before a wheel is turned th n again during the season followed by a further 'bonus' come the end of the season. That has to be factored in with points, start and travelling money. How close is that one JC Many riders don't receive a signing on fee. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 I know and you are a long way out I greatly respect and enjoy your posts JC but cannot understand why no-one on the "inside" is prepared to shed some light on how it works - is there a basic pay rate scale or not? We do not want rider's private financial affairs to be known. just have an understanding of why some " cannot make it pay" without doubling up. That is where it all began, at least for me. Are they the lowest paid professional sportsmen in the country or are they grossing 4x plus the average national wage? Are promoters "abusing" riders by underpaying them for their desires to race? I repeat they are heroes for giving it their all on track, so this is not knocking anyone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehone Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 prior to double up/down being allowed many riders had jobs too, but since they had the chance to ride for more than one club and get more than one wage it all changed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 Many riders don't receive a signing on fee. I thought it' was the likes of NKI being discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Bloke Posted October 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 I know and you are a long way out To low or to high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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