Aces51 Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 (edited) The loaded averages were for team building at the start of this season only..... The 50 point team building limit took account of the average loading for all riders who only had an Elite League average to make it directly comparable to the Premier League averages. Many think that there should still be a smaller loading on riders coming in on old EL averages simply because it is obvious that those averages were gained in a higher quality league. However, hasn't the precedent now been set by Jonasson and Musielak coming in on their old EL average. Edited October 11, 2017 by Aces51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 if you say so -but to me Iversen average is false he never rode here this season so he’s definitely on his EL average if his average isn’t loaded prior to 2018 it makes Doyle Lindgren and Holder loaded 2017 average a joke . It's not a joke at all. Rider's who doubled up in the 2nd division in 2016 started on those average in the top league due to the format change. This is why the riders that only rode the top division had their averages loaded to "level things up" and were eligible to also ride the 2nd tier. 2018 is back to actual averages. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haza Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 It's not a joke at all. Rider's who doubled up in the 2nd division in 2016 started on those average in the top league due to the format change. This is why the riders that only rode the top division had their averages loaded to "level things up" and were eligible to also ride the 2nd tier. 2018 is back to actual averages. but Iversen never rode here his average is an EL average not a Premiership- but I must be wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scrutton Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Its all down to team totals and riders ridding for whatever team they want to doubt whether you can push them to teams they don't want to ride for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tellboy Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 if you say so -but to me Iversen average is false he never rode here this season so he’s definitely on his EL average if his average isn’t loaded prior to 2018 it makes Doyle Lindgren and Holder loaded 2017 average a joke . If they were to load Iversen's average,then they would have to load Doyle's,Lindgrens,Holder's averages again.Or do you think Iversen is a better rider by 3 pts on average than Doyle and Lindgren.No team would want Iversen on a 12.5 while Doyle and Lindgren are 3pts lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 NKI will be on his 2016 EL average of 9.04 - unless its deemed to be adjusted downwards due to his injury?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haza Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 If they were to load Iversen's average,then they would have to load Doyle's,Lindgrens,Holder's averages again.Or do you think Iversen is a better rider by 3 pts on average than Doyle and Lindgren.No team would want Iversen on a 12.5 while Doyle and Lindgren are 3pts lower. why ? they have Premiership averages Iversen doesn’t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tellboy Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 why ? they have Premiership averages Iversen doesn’t Look at what people are saying on this.After basically the 50pt team average was dropped to the lower team limit everyone could sign riders on their old EL averages ie Jonasson,Lahti,Musielak.Iversen fits that bill perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 If they were to load Iversen's average,then they would have to load Doyle's,Lindgrens,Holder's averages again.Or do you think Iversen is a better rider by 3 pts on average than Doyle and Lindgren.No team would want Iversen on a 12.5 while Doyle and Lindgren are 3pts lower.TBH the correct thing to do would be to load riders with 2016 averages with a 1.2 multiplier. The 2017 league was weaker than the 2016 league, even before factoring in the format change for HL, which is why a multiplier should be used. But then they didn't use a reduced multiplier of 1.2 like they should have done for mid season signings like Musielak so there is little chance the bspa will have the sense to figure this out...Look at what people are saying on this.After basically the 50pt team average was dropped to the lower team limit everyone could sign riders on their old EL averages ie Jonasson,Lahti,Musielak.Iversen fits that bill perfectly.Yes. And that was ridiculous that a 16% drop in team limit was met with the full removal of a 1.4 multiplier. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) People complaining that the rules are too complicated seem to want to make it more so!! The heat leader races in the 2015/2016 were theoretically harder as they were racing against other heat leaders more in that race format. If anything, for any heat leader with a high average from a harder race format who didn't race this year, there is an argument to reduce their 2016 average accordingly to suit a weaker league in 2018?!. But why? Just use their 2016 'real' average unless they've been out with a serious injury Edited October 12, 2017 by Skidder1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 People complaining that the rules are too complicated seem to want to make it more so!! The heat leader races in the 2015/2016 were theoretically harder as they were racing against other heat leaders more in that race format. If anything, for any heat leader with a high average from a harder race format who didn't race this year, there is an argument to reduce their 2016 average accordingly to suit a weaker league in 2018?!. But why? Just use their 2016 'real' average unless they've been out with a serious injury If they had a high average from a hard format why would you reduce it for an easier format and league? That's BSPA maths right there?! What possible argument is there to lower it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) I left off the emoji!! No argument whatsoever - no more than there's a valid argument to use any multiplier!! Just use their 'real/assessed' averages. Edited October 13, 2017 by Skidder1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 I left off the emoji!! No argument whatsoever - no more than there's a valid argument to use any multiplier!! Just use their 'real/assessed' averages. But there is an argument to use a multiplier, the same as there was last season. Riders who rode as a HL in 2016 have an artificially low average due to the heat format. Additionally, the standard of the league was lowered in 2017. The only mathematically logical thing to do is to apply a multiplier. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 But there is an argument to use a multiplier, the same as there was last season. Riders who rode as a HL in 2016 have an artificially low average due to the heat format. Additionally, the standard of the league was lowered in 2017. The only mathematically logical thing to do is to apply a multiplier. And here lies the problem with our sport.... Every years they seem to bring in another rule, another calculation, a new idea on the pretence of fairness. Back in the 60's and 70's, we had non of this. Each year, we raced the same format, most riders rode for the same club, and the average was a exact indication of their ability. Now it seems, the CMA is only a number, that can be manipulated to suit . I thought I heard, that last year was said to be the start of a new beginning and that the rules and race format will be the same each year...... We'll have to wait and see.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Ward Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 Everyone moans about speedways rules and regulations so please let’s just use real averages from now on and get on with it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 Everyone moans about speedways rules and regulations so please lets just use real averages from now on and get on with it. Not all riders have real averages, that's the point. If riders carry over their averages from 2016 and before when the league was stronger, it creates a race to sign these riders who offer better value. Just look at the influence Musielak had in Swindon's resergence this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Ward Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 Not all riders have real averages, that's the point. If riders carry over their averages from 2016 and before when the league was stronger, it creates a race to sign these riders who offer better value. Just look at the influence Musielak had in Swindon's resergence this season. so I presume you think if NKI makes a return to Kings Lynn his average should be increased by 1.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 I have no doubt that Brundle has the pedigree to make Lynn Speedway a force to be reckoned with. The big question is whether Buster gives him a free hand to develope the team or whether he has his hands tied behind his back..... Time will tell, but even Buster must realise another year like last, would be the end...... Abd we will never know if Brundle is to be a positive, integral part of re-building KLS or if he will be a name on the promoter's register. Fingers crossed that it is to be the former and that he can see the need for the fan's to be won over yet again. If Buster cannot see that, then the future for speedway at the AFA is bleak. And they need to get on with things and not wait until February 2018 before doing their best to restore supporter confidence. I too am still waiting to hear about rain off refunds. Somebody must still work there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 so I presume you think if NKI makes a return to Kings Lynn his average should be increased by 1.2 The short answer is yes, however there are more sophisticated ways of doing it by looking at riders who's average was above 8 in 2016 and seeing where they finished this year. NKI would obviously fit into that category. I doubt the BSPA will do either though. They'll simply muddle through and the clever teams will game the system as Swindon did with Musielak. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted October 15, 2017 Report Share Posted October 15, 2017 The short answer is yes, however there are more sophisticated ways of doing it by looking at riders who's average was above 8 in 2016 and seeing where they finished this year. NKI would obviously fit into that category. I doubt the BSPA will do either though. They'll simply muddle through and the clever teams will game the system as Swindon did with Musielak. Whichever system is used, there will always be winners and losers. I don't see any advantage, keep using a multiplier to achieve riders averages that are out of date. Lets move on with this new set-up, and use the old average for the first 6 meetings then adjust from there. It cant be that difficult to understand and far more accurate then them multipliers...... Abd we will never know if Brundle is to be a positive, integral part of re-building KLS or if he will be a name on the promoter's register. Fingers crossed that it is to be the former and that he can see the need for the fan's to be won over yet again. If Buster cannot see that, then the future for speedway at the AFA is bleak. And they need to get on with things and not wait until February 2018 before doing their best to restore supporter confidence. I too am still waiting to hear about rain off refunds. Somebody must still work there? I've been giving this a lot of thought, Researching Brundle, he has had a fair amount of success in many different positions he has fulfilled. and no doubt could bring much to the table. Thinking about Buster, he will obviously want to turn Lynn around. He needs someone to take over who has experiences, ideas and finances, not necessary in Speedway but of a sporting nature. Brundle ticks all them boxes.... It was so evident last year, that Buster wants to carry on doing the chairman's job, even at the extent of taking his finger off the pulse at club level. I think Brundle could be the big turning point for the club. My one wish is that, If Buster does attend meetings at Saddlebow Road, he keeps in the background and keep his opinions to himself. The last thing we wants are argument with the riders and the track 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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