g13webb Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 With respect, that's a load of old tosh. Belle Vue brought in Rohan Tungate - beating Swindon to his signature. Swindon changed one position - the same as Belle Vue. They couldn't get Tungate so went with a second choice - who turned out to be better due to an old EL average rather than a second division one. Apologises about Belle Vue, I must admit Sedgman had slipped my mind. At the start of the year, I expected better from both Sedgman and Tungate, I thought they would out perform other more established names... But we look back and see both were disappointing. Tungate was supposed to be one of Somerset's big hitters. His points were that bad he was able to sign for Belle Vue as a second string. This wasn't a big success and it was only in later months did he start scoring points... If as you have said, Swindon had signed Tungate, I doubt whether they would have been as successful as they were. The signing of Musielak was without doubt the masterstroke, and if you had acquired Tungate, then probably the talented pole wouldn't have been an option. Some will say Rosco performed a miracle, in getting Musielak, a young talented Polish heatleader, on a 4 average. but in reality it made a mockery of every other riders average... and from that point Swindon were on a different planet... So yes, apologies again for that oversight, Looking back at the BV swap, to me, it was like for like. But the signing of Musielak was a game changer.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Ah, hindsight wisdom, GRW123! Musielak proved a brilliant signing in the end but it was not a certainty. He hadn't ridden in the UK since 2015 when he was signed by Wolves on an assessed 6.5 but dropped to a true finishing average of 4.53. Wolves didn't see enough in him to sign him for 2016 or 2017 and wanted to sell him rather than keep him as an asset. And no other club wanted him in either season! Plus, Swindon were at a disadvantage from the outset because all of Belle Vue's riders had a chance of achieving their starting averages but Doyle could not achieve 13.41! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reliant Robin Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Ah, hindsight wisdom, GRW123! Musielak proved a brilliant signing in the end but it was not a certainty. He hadn't ridden in the UK since 2015 when he was signed by Wolves on an assessed 6.5 but dropped to a true finishing average of 4.53. Wolves didn't see enough in him to sign him for 2016 or 2017 and wanted to sell him rather than keep him as an asset. And no other club wanted him in either season! Plus, Swindon were at a disadvantage from the outset because all of Belle Vue's riders had a chance of achieving their starting averages but Doyle could not achieve 13.41! Plus at the time of signing Musielak, the points building limit had dropped to 42 points rather than the original 50 point limit built to which took account of the 1.2 multiplier to bring the league's averages into line. For example, at the time of signing Musielak, Poole had Zengota in their declared 1-7 on his 2016 7.79 average. They didn't have any wiggle room to change things with a 42 point limit, but Swindon did and made the most of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Also worth pointing out, of course, that Belle Vue were up near the top of the league when they made changes - and sacked a rider who was riding well to bring in Tungate on what they hoped was a false average, sacking a rider who was riding well to do that. Swindon's changes were brought in when they were struggling to beat an egg, and Musielak was brought in to a troubled position that had struggled for points all season, resulting in poor old Swindon being near the bottom of the table much to everyone's amusement. Having said that, though, Musielak's 4.53 average worked in our favour as it was achieved in a stronger league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 I've said for years now that with the play offs in place the best way to win them is by losing early doors thus reducing the team average then strengthen back up before reverting to true form and riding off into the sunset. If you can take advantage of any loop holes left by the thicko's at the BSPA then all the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 Plus at the time of signing Musielak, the points building limit had dropped to 42 points rather than the original 50 point limit built to which took account of the 1.2 multiplier to bring the league's averages into line. For example, at the time of signing Musielak, Poole had Zengota in their declared 1-7 on his 2016 7.79 average. They didn't have any wiggle room to change things with a 42 point limit, but Swindon did and made the most of it. The initial multiplier was 1.4 not 1.2. Thats why it was a farce that no multiplier applies to Musielak (And any other rider introduced to the league later in the season). If the initial multiplier was 1.2 there would have been no issue with the multiplier being removed when the limit dripped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) I've said for years now that with the play offs in place the best way to win them is by losing early doors thus reducing the team average then strengthen back up before reverting to true form and riding off into the sunset. If you can take advantage of any loop holes left by the thicko's at the BSPA then all the better. Another way might have been to ride well, increase the team average, get Sedgman up to a decent average, then, after sacking him, sign Musielak instead of Tungate. The loophole was Musielak's average. Belle Vue missed it. It's often been raised as an issue in the past that teams such as Poole have found it easier to strengthen when doing well duebto higher averages. Edited October 21, 2017 by grachan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Musielak's average was no more of a loophole than any other unsigned rider! Other clubs could have signed him, but didn't. He could have ridden poorly, but didn't. Hindsight is quite wonderful at identifying bargain riders and making other fans feel aggrieved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 I agree about the loophole. The sooner theres an all inclusive list of available rides and what average they come in on the better. It wouldnt then be down to who gets tipped the wink or more importantly those that get quietly ushered away from such advantageous loopholes. Loopholes, why have them anyway in a sporting contest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Jones Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Where's the loophole in a rider being available and having an average? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Where's the loophole in a rider being available and having an average? By loophole, I meant his average was an old average obtained in a league before the multiplier was added in 2017. But he was there for anyone to sign if they wanted him. He was probably signed on the basis that if he rode to his average it would plug the gap in Swindon's team. I don't think many people expected him to do as well as he did. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noggin Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 All teams made changes, Swindon's worked, Rye nearly worked, that's the risk you take if you wish to be successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 All teams made changes, Swindon's worked, Rye nearly worked, that's the risk you take if you wish to be successful. Swindon actually made less changes than anyone apart from Belle Vue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Makes you wonder why there has been pages and pages about wrong average, x1.2, x1.4, no increase, assessed etc, etc. Fact is with a lack of clarity especially on a none complicated subject as this you have to think why it is done this way and who can and cant benefit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noggin Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Swindon actually made less changes than anyone apart from Belle Vue. Exactly, and it's not like we signed a gp ringer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Makes you wonder why there has been pages and pages about wrong average, x1.2, x1.4, no increase, assessed etc, etc. Fact is with a lack of clarity especially on a none complicated subject as this you have to think why it is done this way and who can and cant benefit? If the bspa make things so complicated it is no surprise that riders slip through the net or one or two very sharp managers can sign a rider at a good average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Why didnt you sign him at the beginning of the year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Why didnt you sign him at the beginning of the year? Because he would have been on an average of about 6.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 I think this is where I came in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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