IainB Posted September 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 I'm not really having a go at Steve Worrall, maybe I am a bit... but is he a Speedway man? or a Johnny come lately from Motocross, that can see that there maybe money to be made from Speedway? Having said that though, given his progress, he is exactly the type of rider we should be encouraging to progress further but not at the expense of the whole sport. Perhaps, and get ready for this... maybe he should be on a central contract with the BSPA, much like they do in cricket and was brought in to remedy their doubling up problem they had with the conflict between county matches and test matches... probably too forward thinking though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) they were private messages but I did also get some support but not from riders Ah ok so on the premise of one rider messaging publically – where he didn’t actually reference the fans and others who “DM’d you” - you are going to attempt to portray that speedway riders as a whole don’t care about fans, or the sport and fans should find something else to do? Despite no one actually being seen to make that point? Worrall in fact makes the point – publically, for people to see, and in response to you about subjects such as number of matches being an issue, his wish to compete for his country at a higher level and his wish to improve as a speedway rider, not all of the points made are money related. The very root of most speedway riders existence and reasoning for taking up the sport, is to become the best they can be and compete at the level Worrall states – to become the best, or as good as one can be - that isn’t a hobby…..Crump, Rickardson etc didn’t take on the sport and compete at hobby level, there is validity in the point he is making – again to you. Edited September 4, 2017 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 Ah ok so on the premise of one rider messaging publically where he didnt actually reference the fans and others who DMd you - you are going to attempt to portray that speedway riders as a whole dont care about fans, or the sport and fans should find something else to do? Despite no one, not one rider actually being seen to make that point? Worrall in fact makes the point publically, for people to see, and in response to you about subjects such as number of matches being an issue, his wish to compete for his country at a higher level and his wish to improve as a speedway rider, not all of the points made are money related. The very root of most speedway riders existence and reasoning for taking up the sport, is to become the best they can be and compete at the level Worrall states to become the best, or as good as one can be - that isnt a hobby..Crump, Rickardson etc didnt take on the sport and compete at hobby level, there is validity in the point he is making again to you. fine mate have it your way , you seem to have all the answers , no point in responding with anything worth while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 fine mate have it your way , you seem to have all the answers , no point in responding with anything worth while I don’t… I absolutely don’t - but people at least deserve to be afforded the platform of the things they actually say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 I dont I absolutely dont - but people at least deserve to be afforded the platform of the things they actually say. oh you really do or at least you believe you do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 oh you really do or at least you believe you do Oh sure to you I don’t doubt that for a second you think that!!! but then again, you have just evidenced in your last few posts that taking on board the points of others and what they actually say is a serious issue for you so I will get over you thinking the same in relation to my posts quite quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 Ah ok so on the premise of one rider messaging publically – where he didn’t actually reference the fans and others who “DM’d you” - you are going to attempt to portray that speedway riders as a whole don’t care about fans, or the sport and fans should find something else to do? Despite no one actually being seen to make that point? Worrall in fact makes the point – publically, for people to see, and in response to you about subjects such as number of matches being an issue, his wish to compete for his country at a higher level and his wish to improve as a speedway rider, not all of the points made are money related. The very root of most speedway riders existence and reasoning for taking up the sport, is to become the best they can be and compete at the level Worrall states – to become the best, or as good as one can be - that isn’t a hobby…..Crump, Rickardson etc didn’t take on the sport and compete at hobby level, there is validity in the point he is making – again to you. Ah ok so on the premise of one rider messaging publically – where he didn’t actually reference the fans and others who “DM’d you” - you are going to attempt to portray that speedway riders as a whole don’t care about fans, or the sport and fans should find something else to do? Despite no one actually being seen to make that point? Worrall in fact makes the point – publically, for people to see, and in response to you about subjects such as number of matches being an issue, his wish to compete for his country at a higher level and his wish to improve as a speedway rider, not all of the points made are money related. The very root of most speedway riders existence and reasoning for taking up the sport, is to become the best they can be and compete at the level Worrall states – to become the best, or as good as one can be - that isn’t a hobby…..Crump, Rickardson etc didn’t take on the sport and compete at hobby level, there is validity in the point he is making – again to you. Worrall is never going to be a Crump or a Rickardsson, even if you ladled money into him. While there may be validity in the point he makes, there are other riders who ride in one league and other riders who do other work to supplement their income. If the situation remains as it is it's likely that some clubs will close in the next two years. The poll reflects that, even though it only contained a few hundred votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) Worrall is never going to be a Crump or a Rickardsson, even if you ladled money into him. While there may be validity in the point he makes, there are other riders who ride in one league and other riders who do other work to supplement their income. If the situation remains as it is it's likely that some clubs will close in the next two years. The poll reflects that, even though it only contained a few hundred votes. Wait…you mean….no surely not!! You mean to tell me that not every single speedway rider who races a bike will reach the level of Crump and Rickardson!...I am in shock at that!! He races in Britain, he is a young British kid wishing to be the best he can be – if his level was to improve, his profile would and in theory the profile of the sport would – as a young British kid racing a speedway bike he vicariously represents British Speedway – the two things should go hand in hand – his point is reasonable. If he gets better he becomes a draw who attracts fans, it worked with the likes of Loram etc - there is a chicken and egg scenario to that entire situation. As much as the sport is watered down there will always be value in those who compete they will never just be things who are told to shut up, compete, enjoy it and never ask for more - thus there is little point in attempting to work a sport with the idea that might happen - there has to be a bend and flexibility on both sides. The poll reflects the views of those who follow the thoughts of the person who posted it, in general Twitter will regress back to people who share the views of those they consciously follow – thus the lion’s share of those who took part likely share the thoughts of the person who posted the poll…and even accounting for that Doubling Up still couldn’t muster the % required to favour a win in favour of scrapping it – so yeah, I am very indifferent to what twitter polls show to be honest. Edited September 4, 2017 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted September 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) Wait…you mean….no surely not!! You mean to tell me that not every single speedway rider who races a bike will reach the level of Crump and Rickardson!...I am in shock at that!! He races in Britain, he is a young British kid wishing to be the best he can be – if his level was to improve, his profile would and in theory the profile of the sport would – as a young British kid racing a speedway bike he vicariously represents British Speedway – the two things should go hand in hand – his point is reasonable. If he gets better he becomes a draw who attracts fans, it worked with the likes of Loram etc - there is a chicken and egg scenario to that entire situation. As much as the sport is watered down there will always be value in those who compete they will never just be things who are told to shut up, compete, enjoy it and never ask for more - thus there is little point in attempting to work a sport with the idea that might happen - there has to be a bend and flexibility on both sides. The poll reflects the views of those who follow the thoughts of the person who posted it, in general Twitter will regress back to people who share the views of those they consciously follow – thus the lion’s share of those who took part likely share the thoughts of the person who posted the pool…and even accounting for that Doubling Up still couldn’t muster the % required to favour a win in favour of scrapping it – so yeah, I am very indifferent to what twitter pools show to be honest. I think 70-80% indicated in the poll (not pool) that the current situation is unsatisfactory. The poll (not pool) just asked a question, it didn't pre-suppose any opinion... and it's Rickardsson Edited September 4, 2017 by iainb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 I think 70-80% indicated in the poll (not pool) that the current situation is unsatisfactory. The poll (not pool) just asked a question, it didn't pre-suppose any opinion... and it's Rickardsson Or it showed 53% don’t think it should be scrapped… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted September 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 Or it showed 53% dont think it should be scrapped ... completely, I don't think too many people thought there was much wrong with it when it was originally brought in, a good idea in fact to help progress British youngsters. But that was the thin end of the wedge and anybody that thinks that what we have now with riders milking the golden twit of speedway is either a rider or doesn't like sport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 ... completely, I don't think too many people thought there was much wrong with it when it was originally brought in, a good idea in fact to help progress British youngsters. But that was the thin end of the wedge and anybody that thinks that what we have now with riders milking the golden twit of speedway is either a rider or doesn't like sport For someone so enthused by correcting spelling and grammar that’s quite a simpletons view to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.V 72 Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 How about doing a poll with all the facts. Thanks to Alan Jones for all his hard work showing us the strength of teams if we stop doubling up and have one big league. Wolves 2017 Wolves 2018 Lindgren Lindgren Thorsell L Bjerre Masters Bates Schlein Howe Howarth Campton M Riss Cupitt Greaves Kinsley Choice 1 if they can sort out different race nights for the 2 leagues to stop clashes Hence stop riders missing meetings for both their clubs.If riders still double up we can keep teams like 2017 with a chance that with 2 set nights a few decent class overseas riders might come over to add much needed strength to our league. Or Choice 2 if we combine the leagues to stop doubling up and use all the riders that already race here despite the large difference of class within each team weakening our league to a massive degree we will have teams like the stated 2018 team. Which way will you vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) How about doing a poll with all the facts. Thanks to Alan Jones for all his hard work showing us the strength of teams if we stop doubling up and have one big league. Wolves 2017 Wolves 2018 Lindgren Lindgren Thorsell L Bjerre Masters Bates Schlein Howe Howarth Campton M Riss Cupitt Greaves Kinsley Choice 1 if they can sort out different race nights for the 2 leagues to stop clashes Hence stop riders missing meetings for both their clubs.If riders still double up we can keep teams like 2017 with a chance that with 2 set nights a few decent class overseas riders might come over to add much needed strength to our league. Or Choice 2 if we combine the leagues to stop doubling up and use all the riders that already race here despite the large difference of class within each team weakening our league to a massive degree we will have teams like the stated 2018 team. Which way will you vote. That still isn't 'all the facts' as some clubs might prefer option two because they are currently losing money. Deans poll was as meaningful as that would be. Edited September 4, 2017 by foamfence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Jones Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 How about doing a poll with all the facts. Thanks to Alan Jones for all his hard work showing us the strength of teams if we stop doubling up and have one big league. Wolves 2017 Wolves 2018 Lindgren Lindgren Thorsell L Bjerre Masters Bates Schlein Howe Howarth Campton M Riss Cupitt Greaves Kinsley Choice 1 if they can sort out different race nights for the 2 leagues to stop clashes Hence stop riders missing meetings for both their clubs.If riders still double up we can keep teams like 2017 with a chance that with 2 set nights a few decent class overseas riders might come over to add much needed strength to our league. Or Choice 2 if we combine the leagues to stop doubling up and use all the riders that already race here despite the large difference of class within each team weakening our league to a massive degree we will have teams like the stated 2018 team. Which way will you vote. Your 2017 team's total of 58.63, using my conversion figures, does look way better than Wolves 2018 (or Draft 1/Team 17 as I prefer to call it) but that's inflated by a successful season. The total for those riders at the start of the season, though not the full picture because of the messing around with league and team formats, is 45.58 compared to the D1/T17's 41.97. The less restricted Draft 2/Team 17, consisting of the same 1-5 with Wilson & Phillips at reserve, comes out at 43.80. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted September 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 For someone so enthused by correcting spelling and grammar thats quite a simpletons view to take. Troll 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) If steve worral got a polish extraleague or polish 1st division place next season as the British leagues are now he will have to miss all the Sunday meetings in the uk and there are quite a few , if he would of thought about it what I put to him would of been having his cake and eating it , he would get up to 50 meetings on a Monday and Thursday in Britain and have his Sundays to do poland and the double up haters like me get what they want too , everyone's happy but hey ho guess he knows best Edited September 5, 2017 by THE DEAN MACHINE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 But surely not all clubs in Britain can run one of those two nights so some would close. Whereas two leagues with 2 nights CL 5 nights PL all clubs should be able to run and riders get more meetings. Someone like worrall I'm sure would rather have 20 guaranteed domestic fixtures than better availability for possible Polish fixtures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) But surely not all clubs in Britain can run one of those two nights so some would close. Whereas two leagues with 2 nights CL 5 nights PL all clubs should be able to run and riders get more meetings. Someone like worrall I'm sure would rather have 20 guaranteed domestic fixtures than better availability for possible Polish fixtures. until we ask those clubs we won't know, if worrall want to become the world class rider he believes he can he has to ride in Poland and indeed already does for rawicz in the second division when his fixtures allow as my personal preference I'm not really bothered about a single race night and I am not really bothered about 1 league or 2 although I would like to see different teams instead of the same 7 but I absolutely hate doubling up and want it scrapped but understand riders concerns so why not have best of both worlds ?? Edited September 5, 2017 by THE DEAN MACHINE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 THE more people 'inside' speedway that I talk to the more I think doubling up will remain. The BSPA opened the flood gates and now cannot close them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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