THE DEAN MACHINE Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 i copied this off twitter tonight , Deep breath needed : Belle vue are using Bjerre because Worrall is riding for Newcastle who are using King as a guest for Lambert because Lambert is riding for Kings Lynn, they also have Newman guesting for Robson because Robson is riding for Rye House who are without Harris because he is riding for Peterborough who are using Schlien for Holder because he is riding for Poole who are using R/R for Starke because he is riding for Peterborough 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 i copied this off twitter tonight , Deep breath needed : Belle vue are using Bjerre because Worrall is riding for Newcastle who are using King as a guest for Lambert because Lambert is riding for Kings Lynn, they also have Newman guesting for Robson because Robson is riding for Rye House who are without Harris because he is riding for Peterborough who are using Schlien for Holder because he is riding for Poole who are using R/R for Starke because he is riding for Peterborough Sounds totally bonkers to me...it appears that speedway has reached a new level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) More likely 'dropped' to a new level. As well as doubling up issues there is a need to address the r/r issue. Six teams rode last night - five of them operated r/r. So meetings take longer to run and further injures during a meeting further dilute what's being offered as a so called team sport. If 'Robinsons Barley Water' had been sponsors year's ago then the sponsors now would be just 'water'. Edited August 31, 2017 by Lefty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 i copied this off twitter tonight , Deep breath needed : Belle vue are using Bjerre because Worrall is riding for Newcastle who are using King as a guest for Lambert because Lambert is riding for Kings Lynn, they also have Newman guesting for Robson because Robson is riding for Rye House who are without Harris because he is riding for Peterborough who are using Schlien for Holder because he is riding for Poole who are using R/R for Starke because he is riding for Peterborough The face continues tonight so far as Rye House are concerned. They will he Chris Harris back for the match v King's Lynn but will be without Ben Barker who is riding elsewhere! I quote from the Rye House Press Release: "As noted above, the Rockets are in Norfolk for a quickfire return encounter with King’s Lynn tonight (Thursday) as they follow Tuesday’s 65-26 romp over the Stars – and this time with four away match points at stake. Rye will follow Poole onto the circuit as the second part of a double header that starts at 7.30pm, with Harris firmly back in their fold. Ben Barker misses the match, though, due to a prior SCG Championship commitment, and the Rockets will operate Rider-Replacement as cover." " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 i copied this off twitter tonight , Deep breath needed : Belle vue are using Bjerre because Worrall is riding for Newcastle who are using King as a guest for Lambert because Lambert is riding for Kings Lynn, they also have Newman guesting for Robson because Robson is riding for Rye House who are without Harris because he is riding for Peterborough who are using Schlien for Holder because he is riding for Poole who are using R/R for Starke because he is riding for Peterborough AS a certain ex footballer might say on a TV betting advert ... Unbelievable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 One big league with a second division of the existing third tier allowing doubling up. Then riders get the same amount of meetings. One big league of 18 teams will mean each side races in 34 meetings. Currently a rider doubling-up between Premiership and Championship will ride in 64 meetings (minus clashes). This means that most double-uppers will ride in roughly half as many meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 One big league of 18 teams will mean each side races in 34 meetings. Currently a rider doubling-up between Premiership and Championship will ride in 64 meetings (minus clashes). This means that most double-uppers will ride in roughly half as many meetings. Poor souls , they've had the good times , for the sake of the sport it cant carry on like this . 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppetman Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) One big league of 18 teams will mean each side races in 34 meetings. Currently a rider doubling-up between Premiership and Championship will ride in 64 meetings (minus clashes). This means that most double-uppers will ride in roughly half as many meetings. Two home and away makes 68 meetings with no clashes. Edited August 31, 2017 by poppetman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 Two home and away makes 68 meetings with no clashes. There aren't enough weeks in the season to ride home and away twice with 18 teams. Most clubs lose money over the course of a season. They aren't going to want to ride twice as many meetings, thereby significantly increasing their loses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppetman Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 There aren't enough weeks in the season to ride home and away twice with 18 teams. Most clubs lose money over the course of a season. They aren't going to want to ride twice as many meetings, thereby significantly increasing their loses. Sums up the 'promoters' attitude in a nutshell.No thought as to how they could make a profit or at least break even. Doesn't really need to be 18 teams.I'm sure a few would prefer to be in the second tier. If you ran a pub that was losing (sorry 'loosing') money would you just water down the beer and hope for the best? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 Sums up the 'promoters' attitude in a nutshell.No thought as to how they could make a profit or at least break even. Doesn't really need to be 18 teams.I'm sure a few would prefer to be in the second tier. If you ran a pub that was losing (sorry 'loosing') money would you just water down the beer and hope for the best? That's not really an answer, it is? I am sure promoters would love to make a profit (or at least break even). However, in reality most accept they will make a small loss most seasons. They see this as the cost of running a speedway club. I doubt many would want to double the number of meetings, without any kind of evidence that their losses wouldn't significantly increase. You have also overlooked the fact that there is no evidence of fans wanting (or being able to afford) twice as many home meetings. In fact, most fans simply want regular racing with their team's riders. I've not read any fans saying their want twice as many fixtures. One big league is a great idea in theory, but I have yet to see anyone put together a comprehensive proposal which addresses the issues - other than for clubs, riders and fans to "suck up" the various short-comings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) Some form of extended squad system feels the most viable alternative to me. It would mean a return to some form of , dreaded, draft system - but something along the lines of sides sign their 1-7 and then pick from a pool of unsigned to make up their squad. The additions would need to meet certain criteria. Swindon for example would have a pick of all remaining riders from Friday, Saturday and Sunday – but no two riders from one team to complete a 9/10 man squad – riders 8-10 would then be used in instances of clashes and remove the over use of R/R and guests from competing sides, in an attempting to move back to a familiarity of riders for the fans – riders racing for them should at least be their riders, and a squad would feel more like that than guests and R/R. The downside for some riders would be being part of a squad where they might not feature often, but that wouldn’t overly differ to this year for some as the final picks would be a low standard and riders who rarely feature in the Premiership as it is. The variance in number of meetings between some riders must be staggering, that feels like an issue that needs resolved – it doesn’t sit right with me that a Danny King as an example seems to ride most weeks while someone like Aaron Summers doesn’t – instances like this could be better managed. It is a difficult situation, it needs adjusted and manipulated rather than a complete scrapping of it - scrapping it means a club on the edge of attendance failure like Workington are stripped of riders like Cook and Jorgensen, I am not sure that solves attendance and finance issues in the way some might think it will - if anything it feels like pulling the plug on the life support machine to me at a time when it isn't entirely necessary. Edited August 31, 2017 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 IF anyone has the time and lost the will to live perhaps they could make up 18 hypothetical teams from those currently racing in the UK without any riders appearing twice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 Where are SCB or ArnieG when you need them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 IF anyone has the time and lost the will to live perhaps they could make up 18 hypothetical teams from those currently racing in the UK without any riders appearing twice... That wouldn't be possible but if you brought in a few from overseas who might want to ride here and a few NL riders with higher league experience, you could do it. There has also been suggestions of six man teams, I remember that being tried before, a few decades back. It wouldn't be impossible to have one big league and if rumours about the viability of some clubs are true, then it would be even easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 IF anyone has the time and lost the will to live perhaps they could make up 18 hypothetical teams from those currently racing in the UK without any riders appearing twice... yes but there's people like Coty Garcia, Jacob Bukkhave, etc to add into the equasion not just current - plus recently retired etc etc Much like when D2 was formed in '68 people will emerge and we could move to 6 man teams - temporarliy maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 IF anyone has the time and lost the will to live perhaps they could make up 18 hypothetical teams from those currently racing in the UK without any riders appearing twice... Someone had a stab here (albeit with 22 teams) The first thing that stands out is the obvious disparity between the strength of riders, with the likes of Doyle, Lindgren and Zagar at #1 and an NL 6-pointer at #7. This could be addressed by reverting to the old Draft-style heat format which protects the juniors. However, it doesn't address how the lower half of the existing Championship sides are supposed to afford to field competitive teams. The solution to this would be to jettison the top 20 or so Premiership riders, but then you're back in to the realms of needing weaker and weaker juniors or bringing in more foreign riders to make up the numbers. The solution could be six-man teams, but this approach would require a significant re-think of the heat format. On top of this, you still have the outstanding issues of doubling-up between the new league and NL, riders having significantly fewer meetings in Britain (compared to the plethora of DU that does on today) and the impact on crowds who are used to stronger teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 The simple answer is fixed race nights. Two for top flight, the other 5 for PL. Someone with more than two brain cells to do the fixture planning to avoid clashes with international events. Remove use of guests for reserves, instead mandate cover provided by an "affiliated" NL side. That should remove a lot of the problems. I think fans are ok with guests as I just cover for genuinely injured number 1s (there simply isn't a viable alternative) I find it really interesting the outcry about Poland restricting riders ability to ride on multiple leagues, yet so many on here advocating restricting British riders ability to participate in multiple uk leagues. I would limit doubling up to Brits, or alternatively allow a max 1 or 2 seasons for foreign riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 The simple answer is fixed race nights. Two for top flight, the other 5 for PL. Someone with more than two brain cells to do the fixture planning to avoid clashes with international events. Remove use of guests for reserves, instead mandate cover provided by an "affiliated" NL side. That should remove a lot of the problems. I think fans are ok with guests as I just cover for genuinely injured number 1s (there simply isn't a viable alternative) I find it really interesting the outcry about Poland restricting riders ability to ride on multiple leagues, yet so many on here advocating restricting British riders ability to participate in multiple uk leagues. I would limit doubling up to Brits, or alternatively allow a max 1 or 2 seasons for foreign riders. BUT how does that solve the problem of riders double up? Maybe not a clash of dates but still riding for two teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) When you read the alternative solutions and see riders like Garcia and Bukkhave floated as the solution it drives home the idea that Doubling Up is the lesser of two evils. In a theoretical situation where Craig Cook is “exclusive” to Belle Vue and Sam Masters is “exclusive” to Wolverhampton but Edinburgh have the privilege of replacing Masters with Garica and Workington Cook with Bukkhave all you do is knock more paying fans of the gate at Edinburgh and Workington without doing enough considerable needling shifting attendance wise elsewhere - such a thing wouldn't bring fans back at either track, it would only further drive fans away. The idea of I just want 1-7 of my own is great until you realise how crap the alternative is - even if the likes of Garcia did wave at fans, socialise etc each week..... Edited August 31, 2017 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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