Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted August 29, 2017 Report Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) Nothing wrong with 'foreign talent' as long as it is available for the majority of fixtures, if it cuts down doubling-up- fine, if it increases the need for guests- not fine. It is greatly frustrating to fans when they buy a season ticket and discover that their promoter knew from the start that his foreign signing was going to miss x number of fixtures. A league full of lower grade but more available riders would be preferable to some. It’s a mythology that died out a while ago re the location of riders and in particular foreign talent –the statement of retention of foreign riders who use this country as a stepping stone just doesn’t ring true now, it doesn’t happen that often - they have already been cut out of the product. It is a dated idea that stopped about 2 or 3 years ago at least – the riders who race here are loyal to racing in this country. These days it is just as likely it will be a Lambert or Bewley missing a meeting to compete on the continent in a Junior Competition which is a fantastic thing for British Speedway and something fans would be slightly selfish to see those kids deprived of just for their own wish to see 1-7 riders each and every single week. A difficult thing for a promotion to position re season ticket sells – if it is stripped down to such a level a Swindon fan for example could say a season ticket was bought on the proviso they would see Doyle each week, if Doyle breaks his leg after week 2 – the fan can then claim they are not getting what they expected…..these though are the nuisances of sport as is the likelihood of a Lambert progressing further than expected in junior competitions etc and so on. I for one would hate to see such riders frozen out just to accommodate fans wishes in such instances. It would defeat the entire purpose and premise of things and feel like a total dumbing down of the product and affording nothing as a selling point and see a recycling of riders once they reached a level of talent and were then told to sod off continually, a vicious cycle in all honesty. If the wish is to strip the league back to a level where there is riders of a lower level of talent who turn up the National League is a decent indicator of the level of sport many should expect, hardly a thriving product that validates the claims of some re the wish to see the same faces most weeks. Edited August 29, 2017 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted August 29, 2017 Report Share Posted August 29, 2017 It’s a mythology that died out a while ago re the location of riders and in particular foreign talent –the statement of retention of foreign riders who use this country as a stepping stone just doesn’t ring true now, it doesn’t happen that often - they have already been cut out of the product. It is a dated idea that stopped about 2 or 3 years ago at least – the riders who race here are loyal to racing in this country. These days it is just as likely it will be a Lambert or Bewley missing a meeting to compete on the continent in a Junior Competition which is a fantastic thing for British Speedway and something fans would be slightly selfish to see those kids deprived of just for their own wish to see 1-7 riders each and every single week. A difficult thing for a promotion to position re season ticket sells – if it is stripped down to such a level a Swindon fan for example could say a season ticket was bought on the proviso they would see Doyle each week, if Doyle breaks his leg after week 2 – the fan can then claim they are not getting what they expected…..these though are the nuisances of sport as is the likelihood of a Lambert progressing further than expected in junior competitions etc and so on. I for one would hate to see such riders frozen out just to accommodate fans wishes in such instances. It would defeat the entire purpose and premise of things and feel like a total dumbing down of the product and affording nothing as a selling point and see a recycling of riders once they reached a level of talent and were then told to sod off continually, a vicious cycle in all honesty. If the wish is to strip the league back to a level where there is riders of a lower level of talent who turn up the National League is a decent indicator of the level of sport many should expect, hardly a thriving product that validates the claims of some re the wish to see the same faces most weeks. Beggars can't be choosers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.V 72 Posted August 29, 2017 Report Share Posted August 29, 2017 https://www.facebook.com/dean.felton.39/posts/1532428323444545 It matters to these who ride for their team Its like they do not know that most of their riders ride for other clubs.Hampel Vetlander.Thorsell Wolves and Rospiggarna.Dudek Dakarna.Protasiewicz Indianerna Doyle Swindon and Rospiggarna. The difference is that their meetings do not clash.So if the BSPA get their act together for next season and have separate race days for the Premiership and the championship to avoid clashes what will be the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted August 29, 2017 Report Share Posted August 29, 2017 Its like they do not know that most of their riders ride for other clubs.Hampel Vetlander.Thorsell Wolves and Rospiggarna.Dudek Dakarna.Protasiewicz Indianerna Doyle Swindon and Rospiggarna. The difference is that their meetings do not clash.So if the BSPA get their act together for next season and have separate race days for the Premiership and the championship to avoid clashes what will be the difference. You still have to be able to afford those names, otherwise it's pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.V 72 Posted August 29, 2017 Report Share Posted August 29, 2017 You still have to be able to afford those names, otherwise it's pointless. I am talking about doubleing up/down riders 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted August 29, 2017 Report Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) Beggars can't be choosers. Absolutely! A stance promotions have been taken by creating a wider range of choice, and thus preventing the need to beg a lower number of individuals to meet their needs – if you reduce the number of individuals you have to rely on (to fill a 1-7) you become a beggar…. Edited August 29, 2017 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted August 29, 2017 Report Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) Its like they do not know that most of their riders ride for other clubs.Hampel Vetlander.Thorsell Wolves and Rospiggarna.Dudek Dakarna.Protasiewicz Indianerna Doyle Swindon and Rospiggarna. The difference is that their meetings do not clash.So if the BSPA get their act together for next season and have separate race days for the Premiership and the championship to avoid clashes what will be the difference. the PGE are trying to stop them riding elsewhere because they don't see why they should employ them and then they ride for someone else and although their stance hurts British speedway from their point of view it's the right thing to do but we are talking about doubling up here , it's a joke and you can try to justify it all you like but it's one of the major decision disasters that's happened in our sport in the last 20 years Edited August 29, 2017 by THE DEAN MACHINE 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted August 29, 2017 Report Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) A slightly crass and hyperbolic comment given things that have actually happened in the sport in the last 20 years – riders passing away, riders seriously injured and track closures – the actual disasters of the sport, a minor rule alteration isn’t even close to such things in the grand scheme of things - it fades into insignificance. Difficult to afford any point credibility when some will go to such extreme lengths to try and prove a point. Edited August 29, 2017 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted August 29, 2017 Report Share Posted August 29, 2017 A slightly crass and hyperbolic comment given things that have actually happened in the sport in the last 20 years riders passing away, riders seriously injured and track closures the actual disasters of the sport, a minor rule alteration isnt even close to such things in the grand scheme of things - it fades into insignificance. Difficult to afford any point credibility when some will go to such extreme lengths to try and prove a point. its also difficult to afford any credibility when someone distorts the point being made , you know damn well the point I was making 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted August 29, 2017 Report Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) its also difficult to afford any credibility when someone distorts the point being made , you know damn well the point I was making In your own words "it's one of the major disasters that's happened in our sport in the last 20 years" - it simply isn't one of the major disasters that's happened to the sport in the last 20 years. Edited August 29, 2017 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted August 29, 2017 Report Share Posted August 29, 2017 In your own words "it's one of the major disasters that's happened in our sport in the last 20 years" - no, no it isn't. I've added the word decision just for you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 29, 2017 Report Share Posted August 29, 2017 I've added the word decision just for youThink your wasting your time with "hacksaw" 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.V 72 Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) the PGE are trying to stop them riding elsewhere because they don't see why they should employ them and then they ride for someone else and although their stance hurts British speedway from their point of view it's the right thing to do but we are talking about doubling up here , it's a joke and you can try to justify it all you like but it's one of the major decision disasters that's happened in our sport in the last 20 years We are not the only league that has doubling up.In the Swedish top league bar Lindback,Lindgren,Thorsell and P Karlsson every decent Swedish rider inc Sundstrom,Ljung and T H Jonasson double up.The difference is their two leagues ride on different night and there are no clashes so it is not a problem. So as I have said before if the BSPA can sort out different race nights for both of our top leagues and there are no fixture clashes doubling up will not be a problem. Like I have said before if we get our act together and there are no fixture clashes whats the difference between Dudek doubling up with Zielona Gora and Vetlanda and Harris doubling up with Rye house and Peterborough apart from Harris's two teams ride in the same country. Edited August 30, 2017 by B.V 72 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 We are not the only league that has doubling up.In the Swedish top league bar Lindback,Lindgren,Thorsell and P Karlsson every decent Swedish rider inc Sundstrom,Ljung and T H Jonasson double up.The difference is their two leagues ride on different night and there are no clashes so it is not a problem. So as I have said before if the BSPA can sort out different race nights for both of our top leagues and there are no fixture clashes doubling up will not be a problem. Like I have said before if we get our act together and there are no fixture clashes whats the difference between Dudek doubling up with Z/Gorra and Vetlanda and Harris doubling up with Rye house and Peterborough apart from Harris's two teams ride in the same country. Originally the idea of fixed race nights was to make it possible for more overseas stars to ride here, as they are mostly out of our price range and Poland is considering even more restrictions on their freedom to ride, that side of it seems to be dead in the water. Personally I'd prefer to see one big league, even with the conditions that would impose on rider strength. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) We are not the only league that has doubling up.In the Swedish top league bar Lindback,Lindgren,Thorsell and P Karlsson every decent Swedish rider inc Sundstrom,Ljung and T H Jonasson double up.The difference is their two leagues ride on different night and there are no clashes so it is not a problem. So as I have said before if the BSPA can sort out different race nights for both of our top leagues and there are no fixture clashes doubling up will not be a problem. Like I have said before if we get our act together and there are no fixture clashes whats the difference between Dudek doubling up with Zielona Gora and Vetlanda and Harris doubling up with Rye house and Peterborough apart from Harris's two teams ride in the same country. The notion and idea written by some re them only being bound to a club if they know full well that side only contains riders who solely ride for that team is further obliterated by the fact that riders like Adams, Lyons and Louis – riders considered by many to be one club men didn’t just ride for “one club” they regularly, to use an analogy, went around the continent sleeping with other women – yet it seemed that form of cheating was ok and disbelief could be suspended then….this regulation and the idea of riders racing for more than one team isn't new. Edited August 30, 2017 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 The notion and idea written by some re them only being bound to a club if they know full well their side only contains riders who solely ride for that team is further obliterated by the fact that riders like Adams, Lyons and Louis – riders considered by many to be one club men didn’t just ride for “one club” they regularly, to use an analogy, went around the continent sleeping with other women – yet it seemed that form of cheating was ok and disbelief could be suspended then….this regulation and the idea of riders racing for more than one team isn't new. no it isn''t new - but within the same country and league set up its daft 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) We are not the only league that has doubling up.In the Swedish top league bar Lindback,Lindgren,Thorsell and P Karlsson every decent Swedish rider inc Sundstrom,Ljung and T H Jonasson double up.The difference is their two leagues ride on different night and there are no clashes so it is not a problem. So as I have said before if the BSPA can sort out different race nights for both of our top leagues and there are no fixture clashes doubling up will not be a problem. Like I have said before if we get our act together and there are no fixture clashes whats the difference between Dudek doubling up with Zielona Gora and Vetlanda and Harris doubling up with Rye house and Peterborough apart from Harris's two teams ride in the same country. obviously nothing is wrong in your eyes and the sport is just thriving in this country and the concerns of a good majority of fans both on here and in general don't matter so let's just stay as we are and race on a Monday and just forget about team speedway altogether it's not important and enjoy fans flocking back to the sport Edited August 30, 2017 by THE DEAN MACHINE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) no it isn''t new - but within the same country and league set up its daft As daft as Poland and Sweden……there is an irony in using Poland and Polish fans affinity to their team as an example of what should happen in the UK when the same riders who ride in that Polish team race for other clubs and “sleep with other women”….daft indeed. Edited August 30, 2017 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) As daft as Poland and Sweden……there is an irony in using Poland and Polish fans affinity to their team as an example of what should happen in the UK when the same riders who ride in that Polish team race for other clubs and “sleep with other women”….daft indeed. Not a particularly nice analogy, in my humble opinion. :nono: Edited August 30, 2017 by The White Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 We are at the point where we have got to stop finding reasons why we can't get rid of doubling up and work at solutions to get rid of it and for anybody who doesn't think doubling up is a problem ask you partner/wife is it's alright to spend a couple of days with another woman who lives up the road , see how that goes I'm still laughing - thanks for that The Dean Machine. :rofl: A terrific analogy. :approve: Not a particularly nice analogy, in my humble opinion. :nono: Oh is that so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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