Time To Scrap Doubling Up?

[Gresham]

How many Clubs are confined to what night they can race, by being controlled by local councils?

 

That would also have an affect.

[Danny Connor]

Yes hacksaw Jim duggan. I am.

 

It won't make the leagues any less entertaining. Will make those leagues cheaper to run too. And maybe will give riders more incentive to find themselves teams abroad to progress. We may see the national team progress!

 

No rider with a premiership average of over 6 should be eligible for championship team building. Maximum 3 double ups per team with the priority being given to the premiership team (with the exception of rearranged fixtures)

 

There used to be strict rules in place but now lines have blurred to the point Harris lambert and cook double up. It's ridiculous

[IainB]

 

So investing all efforts into one marketable league with 8 teams and doing so at the expense of a league with 10 teams, 10 sets of fans, 10 clubs accounts, finances and budgets – that doesn’t make sense.

8 clubs with crowds of 2000-3000 is better than 10 clubs with crowds of 800-1000

[Fromafar]

8 clubs with crowds of 2000-3000 is better than 10 clubs with crowds of 800-1000

2000-30000,your dreaming IMO .Dont worry they are saying it will a be sorted out at the Conference this winter.!!! They need to ban the sale of alcohol first.!!!

[Ben91]

What was initially introduced as a way for young up and coming Brits to gain extra experience in the higher league has now turned into a complete farce (a bit like the draft system... whatever happened to that?). It seems to me that too many riders think that they are owed a full time living by Speedway these days. Back in the day, riders held down a job and took time off to ride Speedway and that wasn't too long ago (wasn't Carl Stonehewer also a Postman? While also riding in the GP's?). The current double up system is not sustainable too many riders are doing it, meaning that there's a lack of openings for the youngsters. We are now at a stage where almost every league match seems to be effected by lack of riders. This is making a mockery of the Sport (as always I use the term Sport loosely).

 

 

It's been time to stop doubling up for a long time. It is no longer a tool to help young Brits progress up the leagues, more just a way for riders to compete in both leagues to make riding pay. Riders should have one club here (unless stricter rules for youngsters only being allowed to double up can be put into place) and if they can't compete full time as a result of that then they'll have to get a job away from racing to help pay the bills/fund their racing.

[IainB]

Dont worry they are saying it will a be sorted out at the Conference this winter.!!!

Haha! Thread closed then... next

[Danny Connor]

To be fair. They sorted the cocked up averages from last season pretty well.

[B.V 72]

First of all I would love for doubleing up to stop but as I have said before the way British speedway is I don't know how they can do it.

The real problem is the fact that we don't have enough riders to fill all the team places in both leagues.

We have 34 riders that double up/down this season.That half the riders in both leagues and that's the problem.

But lets say that next season they stop doubleing up/down and both leagues settle on keeping 17 riders each.

It would make the Championship league a lot weaker but they could promote 17 riders from the National league wether they are ready or not, even though they have at least 10 Nat league riders in the league already this season.Who double up from the Nat league but that's another problem.

The real problem starts with where do the Premier league find the 17 riders they are missing to fill the team places.Its not just the top riders from abroad that do not want to ride in Britain the list is very long one.

So is it money the amount of fixtures/differing race nights what stops them wanting to ride here.The person that can come up with an answer to this problem and get them back over here will have solved the problem of doubleing up.

Answers on a post card.

[foamfence]

First of all I would love for doubleing up to stop but as I have said before the way British speedway is I don't know how they can do it.

The real problem is the fact that we don't have enough riders to fill all the team places in both leagues.

We have 34 riders that double up/down this season.That half the riders in both leagues and that's the problem.

But lets say that next season they stop doubleing up/down and both leagues settle on keeping 17 riders each.

It would make the Championship league a lot weaker but they could promote 17 riders from the National league wether they are ready or not, even though they have at least 10 Nat league riders in the league already this season.Who double up from the Nat league but that's another problem.

The real problem starts with where do the Premier league find the 17 riders they are missing to fill the team places.Its not just the top riders from abroad that do not want to ride in Britain the list is very long one.

So is it money the amount of fixtures/differing race nights what stops them wanting to ride here.The person that can come up with an answer to this problem and get them back over here will have solved the problem of doubleing up.

Answers on a post card.

I would rather that than doubling up. Besides NL riders there are still others abroad who might welcome the chance of extra racing (Poole found one easily enough), there are two or three Americans keen to try over here and they haven't looked bad in the SWC. I think the six rider, five rides each format would be OK. I remember it being used about twenty odd years ago.

[B.V 72]

I would rather that than doubling up. Besides NL riders there are still others abroad who might welcome the chance of extra racing (Poole found one easily enough), there are two or three Americans keen to try over here and they haven't looked bad in the SWC. I think the six rider, five rides each format would be OK. I remember it being used about twenty odd years ago.

Yep I can see your thinking.Six man teams are an idea but if they did that the likes of Shanes,Greaves,Smith,Ayres,Perks,Morley,Branford and S Lambert who are not ready for the Premier league now would be the riders to be left out which would solve nothing really 22 of the Championships top 30 riders would still be wanted by both leagues.

The Americans Manzaneres being the best of them would be good enough for the Champ league but not as good as the 22 top Championship riders doubleing up for the Prem teams to want to sign them instead.

Yep Poole have solved one problem but Buster may have caused us to have 2 more.The Poles new rules are stopping riders who want to ride here Iversen,Kilderman etc and reading that Polish new rules could get even worse next year. European clashes stopped Leberdeevs riding for Leicester the problems getting riders over here seem to get bigger every year. Sweden and Denmark do not seem to be producing riders like they used to so less of their riders to come over here.

I really wish someone could solve the problem but I really cannot for the life of me see how.

Edited August 19, 2017 by B.V 72

[foamfence]

Yep I can see your thinking.Six man teams are an idea but if they did that the likes of Shanes,Greaves,Smith,Ayres,Perks,Morley,Branford and S Lambert who are not ready for the Premier league now would be the riders to be left out which would solve nothing really 22 of the Championships top 30 riders would still be wanted by both leagues.

The Americans Manzaneres being the best of them would be good enough for the Champ league but not as good as the 22 top Championship riders doubleing up for the Prem teams to want to sign them instead.

Yep Poole have solved one problem but Buster may have caused us to have 2 more.The Poles new rules are stopping riders who want to ride here Iversen,Kilderman etc and reading that Polish new rules could get even worse next year. European clashes stopped Leberdeevs riding for Leicester the problems getting riders over here seem to get bigger every year. Sweden and Denmark do not seem to be producing riders like they used to so less of their riders to come over here.

I really wish someone could solve the problem but I really cannot for the life of me see how.

I doubt anyone would be left out if you eliminated doubling up.

[waiheke1]

To be fair. They sorted the cocked up averages from last season pretty well.

😂😂😂

[B.V 72]

I doubt anyone would be left out if you eliminated doubling up.

Sorry you have lost me read my post again the riders stated with your idea 6 man teams would be left out of those Premiership teams.

In general of course no one would be left out both leagues between them are 34 riders short hence doubleing up.

Edited August 19, 2017 by B.V 72

[foamfence]

Sorry you have lost me read my post again the riders stated with your idea 6 man teams would be left out of those Premiership teams.

In general of course no one would be left out both leagues between them are 34 riders short hence doubleing up.

I prefer not to read it again because it isn't legible, I'll leave it at that.

[MattK]

Answers on a post card.

 

As I said before, we go back to how it was, when quality foreign riders such as David Lampart, Krzysztof Stojanowski, Sergey Darkin and Manuel Hauzinger graced our leagues.

 

It seems some people would rather see journeyman foreigners making up teams, rather than riders committed to British speedway making a living.

[frigbo]

 

As I said before, we go back to how it was, when quality foreign riders such as David Lampart, Krzysztof Stojanowski, Sergey Darkin and Manuel Hauzinger graced our leagues.

 

It seems some people would rather see journeyman foreigners making up teams, rather than riders committed to British speedway making a living.

I for one would rather the same set of riders representing a team each meeting - irrespective of nationality.

 

Don't kid yourself that there isn't still a decent smattering of "journeyman foreigners" in our leagues and if you could point out those riders "committed to British Speedway" that would be interesting to see.

Edited August 20, 2017 by frigbo

[tigerowl]

There are enough riders to go round. The argument there isn't is a myth perpetuated by the promoters and the fans who are happy with the farcical situation that exists at the moment.

 

There are 29 teams competing at the moment which would require 203 riders to staff.

 

With two and a half months of the season left, 208 riders to my reckoning have competed in league speedway. There would no doubt be a few more that would come and ride here regularly from countries like France, Netherlands, Germany and Austria, plus the likes of Manzares and Becker who are keen to race here.

 

Cook, King, Grajczonek, Harris etc should not be in the Champonship

Clegg, Williamson, Bewley, Boxall, Roynon etc. should not be in the National League.

 

Riders riding at the correct level means more opportunities for young riders and the 'rider shortage' solves itself.

[Chris116]

I went to Rye House aged two months in 1954 and my parents moved to near Wimbledon in 1957. From then on I went racing most weeks at Wimbledon as well as White City while that was running. After to moving to Basildon I was then was a regular at Arena Essex until I moved to Skegness and saw most of the meetings there. I now live back near Wimbledon and my local team is Rye House. During my lifetime I have seen league racing in London at Wimbledon, New Cross, Wembley, White City, Romford and Hackney with Crayford, Arena Essex and Rye House just outside London. The last two named are the only tracks that are still in existance which means that the capital does not have racing in the capital which never helps a sport.

 

The idea of going back to 13 heat league matches has been mentioned but remembering back to when that was what we had, there used to be a lot of fans who would go home after the league match and were not interested in the second half! It was the fact that many fans did not like second halves that brought in the extended league matches which are now 15 heats. Rye House regularly have six races for juniors on 150cc and 250cc machines in the half hour before the league match and talking to many people they are just not interested in watching those races although I always do and through watching them also went to one of the Junior Championship meetings at Rye House which I enjoyed.

 

The most farcical thing that has happened so far this season is the exchange of Ed Kennett and Krzysztof Kasprzak between Poole and Rye House and that Ed Kennett rode as a guest for Swindon at Rye House a couple of weeks after being sacked by Rye House and proceeded to beat most of the Rye House team! Both riders have had their ups and downs this season but since moving have shown they can do well so maybe their lack of form was down to the two promotions more than being down to the riders!

 

Promoting is a very hard balancing act. Fans want a winning team but having a team that won too easily closed White City! Fans want to see the top riders and do not support National League teams at tracks that also have a Premiership or Championship team. Riders used to have jobs and rode speedway as a sideline but that was when employers were willing for them to do that. Most employers would not let people go off racing speedway when they wanted them at work and would be even less happy when the rider suffered an injury and had to be off work for a time! The new air fences are wonderful things and I fully support all the other improvements in rider safety but I have noticed that riders with all the extra safety gear are far more willing to go for gaps that 40 years ago the top men would have never tried to get through.

 

One of the biggest problems British Speedway has is that riders can make more money in other countries and the leagues in those countries can therefore hold the riders to ransom. Stopping doubling up or down will not solve that problem and until it is solved we in this county are left with what we have.

 

Do I have any quick fix answers? No.

 

Do I still enjoy watching racing? Yes.

[B.V 72]

There are enough riders to go round. The argument there isn't is a myth perpetuated by the promoters and the fans who are happy with the farcical situation that exists at the moment.

 

There are 29 teams competing at the moment which would require 203 riders to staff.

 

With two and a half months of the season left, 208 riders to my reckoning have competed in league speedway. There would no doubt be a few more that would come and ride here regularly from countries like France, Netherlands, Germany and Austria, plus the likes of Manzares and Becker who are keen to race here.

 

Cook, King, Grajczonek, Harris etc should not be in the Champonship

Clegg, Williamson, Bewley, Boxall, Roynon etc. should not be in the National League.

 

Riders riding at the correct level means more opportunities for young riders and the 'rider shortage' solves itself.

The numbers might well fit but its not just about that its also about the quality of teams that fans will pay to see.

Going off your riders riding at the correct level point of view.Going off the latest green sheets there are 34 Championship riders riding for Premiership clubs plus a few others over the season.24 of those riders are Championship heat leaders.

So if riders ride at the correct level these 24 plus a few others should have to ride in the Premier league all being replaced by the lower class riders from countrys (a few of these might be of Premier league class)you have mentioned plus National league riders.

As a Premier league fan I will be very happy with this but how many Championship club fans will be happy and still support their teams if a massive percentage of the leagues top riders are missing next season.Tigerowl would you be happy with Josh Bates possibly being your number 1.

It would be nice to hear the point of view of some Championship fans as to if this idea would work or not.

Edited August 21, 2017 by B.V 72

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

The numbers might well fit but its not just about that its also about the quality of teams that fans will pay to see.

Going off your riders riding at the correct level point of view.Going off the latest green sheets there are 34 Championship riders riding for Premiership clubs plus a few others over the season.24 of those riders are Championship heat leaders.

So if riders ride at the correct level these 24 plus a few others should have to ride in the Premier league all being replaced by the lower class riders from countrys (a few of these might be of Premier league class)you have mentioned plus National league riders.

As a Premier league fan I will be very happy with this but how many Championship club fans will be happy and still support their teams if a massive percentage of the leagues top riders are missing next season.

It would be nice to hear the point of view of some Championship fans as to if this idea will work or not.

i was a championship fan but I not attending meetings at all cause I can't identify with the "team " that's being served up , 2 ride for Ipswich , 2 ride for Edinburgh and I rides for Sheffield , that's not a team that's a swingers club