lucifer sam Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 I understand what everyone is saying about why Holder shouldn't get a wildcard for next year, but I believe the word is Realpolitik. He will get one, there is absolutely no doubt about it. In other words, he'll be in because of Monster All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 In other words, he'll be in because of Monster All the best Rob Certainly wont hurt his cause! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) Chris Holder’s GP record is surprisingly unimpressive for a former World Champion: 2010 8th 2011 8th 2012 FIRST 2013 12th 2014 8th 2015 7th 2016 4th 2017 Currently 10th In other words, he’s finished in the top six just twice. To make sure of a GP spot in 2018, Chris Holder surely needs to overhaul Martin Vaculik in the final standings. Greg Hancock and a Dane are cast iron certainties for a wildcard, leaving two others. There are a number of young riders knocking on the door e.g. Lebedevs who was much more impressive than Holder in the SWC, and I feel at least one wildcard has to be to a rider outside the series. If it comes down to a straight choice between Vaculik and Holder on 2017 form, then surely it has to be Vaculik, unless Holder can do something special in the final two rounds… All the best Rob Edited September 26, 2017 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 Chris Holder’s GP record is surprisingly unimpressive for a former World Champion: 2010 8th 2011 8th 2012 FIRST 2013 12th 2014 8th 2015 7th 2016 4th 2017 Currently 10th In other words, he’s finished in the top six just twice. To make sure of a GP spot in 2018, Chris Holder surely needs to overhaul Martin Vaculik in the final standings. Greg Hancock and a Dane are cast iron certainties for a wildcard, leaving two others. There are a number of young riders knocking on the door e.g. Lebedevs who was much more impressive than Holder in the SWC, and I feel at least one wildcard has to be to a rider outside the series. If it comes down to a straight choice between Vaculik and Holder on 2017 form, then surely it has to be Vaculik, unless Holder can do something special in the final two rounds… All the best Rob I can`t agree that 1 wildcard has to be from outside the series- the 2017 line-up is the best for many a long year- and not all of them can finish in the top 8. with Laguta and Cook in with Prem Pawlicki Obviously a Dane must be in and I suppose Greg but then 9th and 10th deserve the last 2 spots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 Chris Holder’s GP record is surprisingly unimpressive for a former World Champion: 2010 8th 2011 8th 2012 FIRST 2013 12th 2014 8th 2015 7th 2016 4th 2017 Currently 10th In other words, he’s finished in the top six just twice. To make sure of a GP spot in 2018, Chris Holder surely needs to overhaul Martin Vaculik in the final standings. Greg Hancock and a Dane are cast iron certainties for a wildcard, leaving two others. There are a number of young riders knocking on the door e.g. Lebedevs who was much more impressive than Holder in the SWC, and I feel at least one wildcard has to be to a rider outside the series. If it comes down to a straight choice between Vaculik and Holder on 2017 form, then surely it has to be Vaculik, unless Holder can do something special in the final two rounds… All the best Rob Not a great record for a World Champion but hard to argue with the record as a GP rider. He deserves a wildcard looking at them numbers. Quite simply, he IS a top 15 rider in the World and thats all that should really matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 Not a great record for a World Champion but hard to argue with the record as a GP rider. He deserves a wildcard looking at them numbers. Quite simply, he IS a top 15 rider in the World and thats all that should really matter. Indeed. He might only have been in the top 6 twice, but he has been in the top 8 five times and in the top 12 every time. Should the Grand Prix be for riders proven to be amongst the top riders in the world or for those who might be one day? But, in any case, as I said before, Realpolitik! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) Apart from injury situation,don't see the point of giving a rider outside the Top 8 a wildcard for the next season or what's the point of saying only the top 8 qualify,know it's tough as the series is at its strongest ,but that's just tough on those who don't make Top8.IMO. It keeps new blood coming. Edited September 26, 2017 by Fromafar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) Not a great record for a World Champion but hard to argue with the record as a GP rider. He deserves a wildcard looking at them numbers. Quite simply, he IS a top 15 rider in the World and thats all that should really matter. So you're saying they just put in the same 15 every season because they're all in the top 15? Not your best argument SCB. Surely some of the riders outside the series (e.g. Lebedevs) are better than those in the series. So are the riders in the series REALLY in the top 15? Fresh blood is needed each year. If all four wildcards go to riders already in the series, then it will quickly become a closed shop. All the best Rob Edited September 26, 2017 by lucifer sam 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaway Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 If that's the case then he's the perfect replacement for Pedersen then, like for like. Dickhead. So you're saying they just put in the same 15 every season because they're all in the top 15? Not your best argument SCB. Surely some of the riders outside the series (e.g. Lebedevs) are better than those in the series. So are the riders in the series REALLY in the top 15? Fresh blood is needed each year. If all four wildcards go to riders already in the series, then it will quickly become a closed shop. All the best Rob Surely it's time for Matthew Davis to get a wildcard? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 So you're saying they just put in the same 15 every season because they're all in the top 15? Not your best argument SCB. Surely some of the riders outside the series (e.g. Lebedevs) are better than those in the series. So are the riders in the series REALLY in the top 15? Fresh blood is needed each year. If all four wildcards go to riders already in the series, then it will quickly become a closed shop. All the best Rob But there's already fresh (ish) blood in for 2018 with Pawlicki, Laguta and Cook. A lot depends on what happens in the next 2 rounds but if Vaculik were to increase the distance between himself and Holder whilst remaining in 9th it would be a tough call to favour the Aussie over him. I fear Norbold is right, but the Monster sponsorship should not be a consideration. As it stands I would go Vaculik, NKI, Hancock and Holder with hopefully no push for a second Dane or Swede to muddy the waters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 Apart from injury situation,don't see the point of giving a rider outside the Top 8 a wildcard for the next season or what's the point of saying only the top 8 qualify,know it's tough as the series is at its strongest ,but that's just tough on those who don't make Top8.IMO. It keeps new blood coming. surely we want the best 15 riders. those who finish 9th / 10th are highly likely to be in that 15. New faces dont mean a stronger field Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 Holder pretty clearly hasn't been one of the top 15 riders in the world this season. So the argument for a wildcard is based on previous seasons performances, which indicate he has consistently been one of the worlds best. I don't think he's nailed on, but no objection to him getting one. The more I look at nicki p record the more I think he deserves first pick of the Danes if fit. And then maybe PUK deserves one ahead of Holder? I'd say Hancock is the only rider nailed on for one, then you have arguments for a range of Danes, holder, lindback, whoever finishes 9th, lebedevs and milik. The latter two would be the most exciting additions, and on form this season u could argue lebedevs is the most deserving, but not convinced they have done quite enough to change the conventional approach that 9th and 10th are close to assured a WC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 surely we want the best 15 riders. those who finish 9th / 10th are highly likely to be in that 15. New faces dont mean a stronger fieldThen make it TOP 10. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 surely we want the best 15 riders. those who finish 9th / 10th are highly likely to be in that 15. New faces dont mean a stronger field Then how do you decide who are the 15 best? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 Then how do you decide who are the 15 best? Then make it TOP 10. That might be the way to do it as 9th normally gets a pick anyhow. Understandably the selectors want a bit of wriggle room in case a top rider gets injured. If you win a GP but finish outside the top 8 then maybe you should get preference for a Wild Card over those who haven't won a GP. It proves you can be very competitive and give something to the next series. Lets set out some criteria so that its not random picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 Surely the challenge result ultimately has a bearing on the wildcard picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 It'll be Holder, Hancock, 1 Dane & 1 other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 That might be the way to do it as 9th normally gets a pick anyhow. Understandably the selectors want a bit of wriggle room in case a top rider gets injured. If you win a GP but finish outside the top 8 then maybe you should get preference for a Wild Card over those who haven't won a GP. It proves you can be very competitive and give something to the next series. Lets set out some criteria so that its not random picks. On a lucky night you can win aGP with 7 pts as Zager proved,so don't think that is the answer.All I am really saying why say Top 8 for next year if you are not using these rules.Top 10 and the rest via the Challenge ,more top riders would use the challenge as a safeguard so you should get quality GP riders through. Holder pretty clearly hasn't been one of the top 15 riders in the world this season. So the argument for a wildcard is based on previous seasons performances, which indicate he has consistently been one of the worlds best. I don't think he's nailed on, but no objection to him getting one. The more I look at nicki p record the more I think he deserves first pick of the Danes if fit. And then maybe PUK deserves one ahead of Holder? I'd say Hancock is the only rider nailed on for one, then you have arguments for a range of Danes, holder, lindback, whoever finishes 9th, lebedevs and milik. The latter two would be the most exciting additions, and on form this season u could argue lebedevs is the most deserving, but not convinced they have done quite enough to change the conventional approach that 9th and 10th are close to assured a WC Ive you have a bad SEASON such as Holder has you don't deserve a place if you don't make Top 8 IMO .There are plenty riders waiting for a chance.Only in Speedway can you have so many anomalies . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) That might be the way to do it as 9th normally gets a pick anyhow. Understandably the selectors want a bit of wriggle room in case a top rider gets injured. If you win a GP but finish outside the top 8 then maybe you should get preference for a Wild Card over those who haven't won a GP. It proves you can be very competitive and give something to the next series. Lets set out some criteria so that its not random picks. It will always be the organisers random picks to suit the quota system , which insures there are riders from all the major speedway nations , GB, Poland, Sweden and Denmark in the series regardless of whether they are the best 15 riders in the world or not Edited September 27, 2017 by New Science 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple.H. Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Dickhead. Surely it's time for Matthew Davis to get a wildcard? He'd keep getting excluded for too much gardening at the tapes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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