Game On Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Nice intelligent comment to add to the debate. Perhaps it's better for you to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. Ahh bless, touched a nerve have we. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted August 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Ahh bless, touched a nerve have we. Not at all. You are just cluttering up a thread with a pointless post. Better to stay out of it if you can't add to the debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Surely correspondence goes on all the time, particularly with Poland who are flexing their muscles sooooo much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game On Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Not at all. You are just cluttering up a thread with a pointless post. Better to stay out of it if you can't add to the debate. Cluttering up a thread, dont make me laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) For me, British Speedway should just plot its own path... The BSB Championship is an example of how you can successfully run your own business in the shadow of a 'bigger buisness' which 'sells' the same thing.... World Superbikes has its own stars and the BSB have theirs.... Hold the AGM as soon as the season finishes, detail the following seasons rules and regulations, send all expectations to riders re commitments required and sign up those who meet your stipulations.... Probably no Superstars, but more will be made over time and maybe British Speedway will be in a better position to retain them in the longer term, as (if) it gets its house in order? Edited August 12, 2017 by mikebv 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Unfortuantely the BSPA never seem strong enough to reinvent the sport for what it is. We make plans to suit Clubs and Riders without any thought of sustainability of the sport or of the fans. We need to sort out the British scene to suit the British people, when hopefully the fans will be able to connect with the teams. Looking at the riders who partake, we only have a handful of the top riders left, so losing them would not be a great lost. We don't have enough riders, which see too many double-uppers doing the rounds. Yes its a good payday for the riders but does little for the sport, with fixture clashes and guests. So we reduce the teams to 5 or 6 members instead. Lets look at one league run on a North V South basis. These two leagues to run on specific days North on Sun, Mon & Tues; South on Wed, Thurs & Fri ( purely for demonstrating purpose) . then there could be D/U but only as a last resort.. Fixtures to be more regular ( every week) Hopefully this would generate more local derbies: ( Peterborough, Ipswich, Rye House, Kings Lynn) where fans would more likely travel to away meetings... End of season Play-off would bring both divisions together. Am trying to look at the situation logically. We cannot complete with the likes of Poland and Sweden so why try? This could be the last chance to get the sport back on a level footing....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) Unfortuantely the BSPA never seem strong enough to reinvent the sport for what it is. We make plans to suit Clubs and Riders without any thought of sustainability of the sport or of the fans. We need to sort out the British scene to suit the British people, when hopefully the fans will be able to connect with the teams. Looking at the riders who partake, we only have a handful of the top riders left, so losing them would not be a great lost. We don't have enough riders, which see too many double-uppers doing the rounds. Yes its a good payday for the riders but does little for the sport, with fixture clashes and guests. So we reduce the teams to 5 or 6 members instead. Lets look at one league run on a North V South basis. These two leagues to run on specific days North on Sun, Mon & Tues; South on Wed, Thurs & Fri ( purely for demonstrating purpose) . then there could be D/U but only as a last resort.. Fixtures to be more regular ( every week) Hopefully this would generate more local derbies: ( Peterborough, Ipswich, Rye House, Kings Lynn) where fans would more likely travel to away meetings... End of season Play-off would bring both divisions together. Am trying to look at the situation logically. We cannot complete with the likes of Poland and Sweden so why try? This could be the last chance to get the sport back on a level footing....... And the ultimate irony is the more they try and work around all the other 'agendas' globally that effect them by running such a disjointed fixture list , invariably on nights with teams full of Guests, all it does it take away any credibilty in the actual event itself and ultimately removes any satisfaction fans get from actually winning a National title...! Why would anyone want to keep attending something so consistently contrived and cobbled together on such an ad hoc basis and provides very little kudos even if 'your team' wins...? The BSPA should at least give themselves a chance to succeed by taking control of their own destiny... I am sure many fans (and ex fans) out there would support their stance and may even start to attend more as the credibilty of the Leagues grow.. Maybe I am in a minority but I simply won't attend "Guest Fests" meaning my team loses out on probably £500 a season from me and my lad as over half the matches (at least) will be ran with 'select teams'... Ironically I will attend further afield though if the event is 'credible' such is the pull the Sport has if done 'properly'... Wonder how many more out there are like me? As I say, the BSPA should at the very least give themselves a chance by taking charge of 'their' part of the Sport. Especially as they havent got much to lose now I would suggest.. Edited August 13, 2017 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Which is your team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Which is your team? Belle Vue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Which is your team? I find that an irrelevant question. That's the main issue with decision making of this sport. The thought is not about which Team, all thoughts should be directed to the whole concept..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 I don't know how you get to £500 in lost revenue due to guest fests at Belle Vue. We've had two guests for Kenneth but that was due to the fact we signed him late on. IMO the two matches he missed are outweighed by his contributions in his other meetings. The only other one was Heeps in for the injured Tungate. We have had some meetings with R/R but those heats were filled with Aces not guests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 British Speedway is the proverbial sinking ship and those that run it have no idea how to do damage control, yet alone save it. You only have to look at a random fixture and see how many guests and rider replacements are in use for riders who are not even injured to know the sport in this country has lost all CREDABILITY it is a JOKE! Forget about where we are on the world stage, it's pointless, the sport in this county needs to back to being amateur/part time like non league football, model it on the old National League of the late 80s, good number of clubs, variety of fixtures and nearly all of the riders were your own and only rode for your team and when they were not riding they had part time jobs to supplement their income. Ok that won't work for every club, but we need something like that for a few seasons as a solid base to build from. Further to that I would even consider breaking away from the FIM in order to bring some sort of standardised equipment in, not to make it fairer but to reduce costs, reduce that and the riders will earn more, the promoters will have less overheads and could then make the product cheaper or better still reinvest in it, something that has never been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray c Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Just show's you what a shambles British speedway is Poole have got five meetings in a period of five days admitting one is a rain off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) I'm fairly certain that when the AGM was brought forward it was then discovered that any rule changes etc could not be confirmed or announced officially because the BSPA Constitution still referred to November as the 'decision date'!! One would hope that the Constitution has by now been amended to allow for an earlier 'rubber stamping' exercise. However anyone thinking that rule changes, league structures, points limits et al are left to the AGM has to be a little deluded - however it may appear to the fans. Clubs/Promoters are aware of the main changes/limits by August as they have been discussed at monthly BSPA meetings throughout the season - its just that the fans have not been informed - and why should they be until they are officially confirmed?! Hasn't it been stated already that the BSPA Chairman has spent much time attending 'World' fixture meetings already to try to minimise the major fixture clashes. I can't imagine that is an easy task in any year - least of all in 2018 when football's World Cup is also taking place - so we can expect many of the usual fixture issues to continue imo. The Polish rules and the likely Swedish option of only running one league (rather than 2) will have a bearing on the number of rider places up for grabs across Europe. The British Clubs or Promotions that are financially confident of running next season will have begun their team planning already. One thing is for sure, speedway will continue in UK!! The variables include number of teams, number of leagues/divisions and the standard/number of riders required. Edited August 13, 2017 by Skidder1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) I don't know how you get to £500 in lost revenue due to guest fests at Belle Vue. We've had two guests for Kenneth but that was due to the fact we signed him late on. IMO the two matches he missed are outweighed by his contributions in his other meetings. The only other one was Heeps in for the injured Tungate. We have had some meetings with R/R but those heats were filled with Aces not guests. Away teams have guests too... Last year one of Danny King, Rohan Tungate and Paddy Hougaard seemed to be there every week, either riding for us or the opposition... As we head to the play off deadline and re arranged fixtures get crammed in (in both leagues) just to complete the season, U21 and GP Challenge events reach a climax, as will Poland and Sweden, I can guarantee guest levels will increase just like they do year after year as the season come to a close... Even more so this year with teams not being able to sign riders to replace injured competitors.. NB. 8 out of 11 fixtures at BV already this season have had Guests... (12 riders in total)... Edited August 14, 2017 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 A rider is signed to a British club under contract. He is loaned out to another British club if not required by the club that owns his contract. A loan fee is paid. Promotions don't own 'contracts', only the registration of the rider and that only applies within Britain. Quite aside that retain-and-transfer between EU countries was outlawed by the Bosman ruling, there's no regulation of cross-border registrations by the FIM or FIM Europe as far as I'm aware. If British rider contracts normally only run from March to October, then there's no reason why Poland or anywhere should respect 'ownership' of registration, far less pay anything if a rider isn't actually under contract. And even if a rider is under contract, it would have to specifically state that rider couldn't ride elsewhere without permission, which would be disincentive to sign it if said rider were good enough to ride in Poland anyway. Multi-year contracts are somewhat impractical in British speedway, given the hand-to-mouth existence of most promotions. Plus the fact that they're basically zero-hour contracts probably means you can't stop riders riding in another country, nor prevent them resigning in favour of a better contract elsewhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Away teams have guests too... Last year one of Danny King, Rohan Tungate and Paddy Hougaard seemed to be there every week, either riding for us or the opposition... As we head to the play off deadline and re arranged fixtures get crammed in (in both leagues) just to complete the season, U21 and GP Challenge events reach a climax, as will Poland and Sweden, I can guarantee guest levels will increase just like they do year after year as the season come to a close... Even more so this year with teams not being able to sign riders to replace injured competitors.. NB. 8 out of 11 fixtures at BV already this season have had Guests... (12 riders in total)... Must admit it hadn't occurred to me that you were penalising Belle Vue for how other promotions run their business. I get it now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Oh absolutely, that's what's been wrong with British speedway for the last 80 years , we have wasted far too much time trying to run speedway on nights when stadiums are available and supporters have a favoured race night , for the benefit of the whole of British speedway , we should pick a night of the week and any team who cannot or will not because it's financially not viable, race on that night will just have to close down . 80 years is a decent run . time to fit in with the requirements of Aussies , Poland and Sweden , we have had it our own way for far too long, and as long as there's enough teams left to provide places for those who need to brush up their skills or get a European work permit that'll do . winner all roundTimes have changed, don't we have to change with it, or at least try? Kings Lynn changed from Saturdays to Wednesdays and survived. They all manage Mondays for TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) Must admit it hadn't occurred to me that you were penalising Belle Vue for how other promotions run their business. I get it now.Contrived bollox meetings are delivered week in week out by the Promoters as a collective so all reap crowd level wise what their actions deserve... With the Aces being as 'guilty' over the years as all other promotions... How many times did we go to Lakeside with less than half a team of Aces? Amazing coincidence how so many teams manage to never have their 'top riders' missing for home matches but agree to fixtures away from home when they know their main 'drawcard' won't be there... As for "penalising Belle Vue"? All promotions pee in the same pot and contrive meeting after meeting as an in house organisation so regularly effectively 'penalise' each other... Run the Sport properly collectively and more would go to watch it... Keep doing what they are doing and (as the last ten years will testify) less will attend.. Simple really.... Edited August 14, 2017 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 The Leicester away fixture was a farce and something rightly to be angry about, other than that there was only Kurtz in place of Bjerre at Rye House. Must admit it hadn't occurred to me that you were penalising the new Belle Vue promotion for how previous owners ran their business. I get it now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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