False dawn Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Deserving? Worthy? Anymore words? I guess we have to define what being World Champion really means. Here's one definition to get you going... The World Champion is the rider that wins the World Championship. And for completeness.... The World Champion is not the rider (necessarily) that most deserves it or is the most worthy or anything else actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 The irony of Holder having his best night on a wet track in difficult conditions! Terrible GP looked like a bigger version of Buxton without the views. This was taking the series back to the days of Norden. Hope Doyle goes on to win the title now after his bad luck last season, if its not to be for Jason Id like Lindgren to come through, hes not always brought his league form to the GP,s but this season has seen him step up, he was very unlucky to be excluded, why does a rider have to be thrown out if its on the back straight if its a racing incident and no one is to blame? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC67 Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Almost lost the will to carry on while watching this., the constant re-runs had my finger hovering over the delete button , glad it wasn't watching it live or I definitely would have started channel hopping . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUDGIE Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 ....., Nielsen went all of 86 unbeaten AWAY from home and almost unbeaten at home, Who beat him? Have tried to look it up but cant find anything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 (edited) Nobody deserves to be World Champion you have to earn it. What is factual is that barring injury Doyle would have won it last year. So in my opinion i would like him to win it for that reason. If he chokes and only scores 5 in the next few rounds then he isnt a deserving champion. What last night proved is what a disgrace Chris Holder was to not ride for Kings Lynn Edited September 10, 2017 by Gavan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Nobody deserves to be World Champion you have to earn it. What is factual is that barring injury Doyle would have won it last year. So in my opinion i would like him to win it for that reason. If he chokes and only scores 5 in the next few rounds then he isnt a deserving champion. What last night proved is what a disgrace Chris Holder was to not ride for Kings Lynn WASN'T at KL or Teterow but can we compare the condition of the two tracks? The track at Teterow didn't appear dangerous although it was far from perfect and not conducive to decent racing until the final stages. As I said, wasn't at KL but have had some interesting confidential conversations with people ho believe that all the facts of that fateful night at KL have yet to emerge. They might if Holder goes ahead with an appeal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Who beat him? Have tried to look it up but cant find anything!Lucifer Sam will be the guy who knows that if he stumbles onto this thread. I know Carl Blackbird beat him a couple of times (maybe even 3) in one meeting but suspect that was the league cup not the British league. Nobody deserves to be World Champion you have to earn it. What is factual is that barring injury Doyle would have won it last year. So in my opinion i would like him to win it for that reason. If he chokes and only scores 5 in the next few rounds then he isnt a deserving champion. What last night proved is what a disgrace Chris Holder was to not ride for Kings Lynn Don't understand this anti Holder position. Plenty of people have ridden world championship meetings in conditions they wouldn't have for a league match. And when u consider the injuries holder has had, and seen his mate have, I can understand reluctance to race on conditions he deemed dangerous. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillipsr Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Nobody deserves to be World Champion you have to earn it. What is factual is that barring injury Doyle would have won it last year. So in my opinion i would like him to win it for that reason. If he chokes and only scores 5 in the next few rounds then he isnt a deserving champion. What last night proved is what a disgrace Chris Holder was to not ride for Kings Lynn Thats not a fact.. its a very valid opinion but its not a fact.. you do that often 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave the Mic Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 (edited) For those who would like to see the one off world final nights only have to watch this tonight to see that the wrong man could end up being world champ. And thats not being disrespectful to Zagar - on form he is a great rider and I would love to see on form regularly, but the world championship needs a GP series like we have - and I seen many world finals at Wembley. Not really. Five rides, 14 points & Doyle wins. Don't like him at all, but he is the best there is right now. Sam Ermolenko is an undeserving champion. He should've been excluded for stopping in front of Billy Hamill, causing him to crash. Hans Nielsen should have been the rightful winner. On form he was a worthy winner, but he shouldn't have won. Nielsen did have him off though in that same race & had Sam been excluded when not under power (he had lost a chain) in the same race, there is a good chance Andy Smith could have won it Well that was utter rubbish tonight but at least we didn't have to endure the inane twins screaming "Woffy woffy woffy"!! :) It's only Pearson that does that. I think you're forgetting the obvious one - Gary Havelock Yawn. It was an absolutely appalling GP. Track was terrible, but from those I have spoken too in the past, the racing there is rarely decent anyway. The venue as a GP venue is terrible. Basically a speedway track in a field. I went to Pocking in 93, Norden in 83 & Vojens in 88 which were all much the same. Have we really come nowhere in all that time. They should not hold another GP. The referee. Awful. Too many restarts when not required, got the Zmarzlik exclusion woefully wrong & thought was very harsh on Lindgren who was riding in a straight line when Dudek wasn't & they touched. Holder. What a git. Whined like a baby about the track at Lynn & lo & behold has a great GP on a track more suited to motocross. But then he was riding for himself last night, not his team. Finally Doyle. Don't like him at all, but it does look as though he will get a deserved world title this year. Edited September 10, 2017 by Dave the Mic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 (edited) Holder. What a git. Whined like a baby about the track at Lynn & lo & behold has a great GP on a track more suited to motocross. But then he was riding for himself last night, not his team. No comparison to the track last night and Lynn on meltdown night. Last night the track was wet but smooth and slick if slushy. Lynn was a dry night but huge grip which caused the issues. Totally opposite track conditions. Edited September 10, 2017 by Steve Shovlar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave the Mic Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 (edited) Depends what you mean by undeserving. Maybe Havvy. That's probably about it. Wholly inaccurate on Havelock in 1992. He had few, if any equals internationally in 1992. He won his British Semi & the British Final, reached a run off for the Commonwealth title despite riding with a badly injured hand. He then won the Overseas title & was second in his WC semi, before winning the title at a 5 ride average of 13.33 per meeting. He ripped through his card in the world pairs semi, passing several riders easily including Nielsen & Knudsen & scored paid 17 in the final, excluding the run off. He top scored for England in their WTC qualifier with 14, his only poor meeting was the final in which he scored 7. Over those 10 meetings his 5 ride average was 13.07 & if you exclude the WTC final it was 13.72. I would respectfully suggest he had a decent claim to be champion that year. No comparison to the track last night and Lynn on meltdown night. Last night the track was wet but smooth and slick if slushy. Lynn was a dry night but huge grip which caused the issues. Totally opposite track conditions. That's fair enough Steve, if that's how you see it. Few other riders complained. Can Holder not rider grip? Edited September 10, 2017 by Dave the Mic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Wholly inaccurate on Havelock in 1992. He had few, if any equals internationally in 1992. He won his British Semi & the British Final, reached a run off for the Commonwealth title despite riding with a badly injured hand. He then won the Overseas title & was second in his WC semi, before winning the title at a 5 ride average of 13.33 per meeting. He ripped through his card in the world pairs semi, passing several riders easily including Nielsen & Knudsen & scored paid 17 in the final, excluding the run off. He top scored for England in their WTC qualifier with 14, his only poor meeting was the final in which he scored 7. Over those 10 meetings his 5 ride average was 13.07 & if you exclude the WTC final it was 13.72. I would respectfully suggest he had a decent claim to be champion that year. That's fair enough Steve, if that's how you see it. Few other riders complained. Can Holder not rider grip? Well the whole Lynn team went into meltdown but only Holder got punished for walking out. Batch got a sick note and Huckenbeck and Lambert rode after refusing to go out in heat 9. Holder clearly has issues outside the sport at the moment though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Track obviously had to be exactly how Holder wants it. Wet and slushy and dangerous is fine..,..dry and grippy off he sulks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Bloody typical, I've backed Zagar e/w in every GP this season. Except last night. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 The irony of Holder having his best night on a wet track in difficult conditions! Terrible GP looked like a bigger version of Buxton without the views. This was taking the series back to the days of Norden. Hope Doyle goes on to win the title now after his bad luck last season, if its not to be for Jason Id like Lindgren to come through, hes not always brought his league form to the GP,s but this season has seen him step up, he was very unlucky to be excluded, why does a rider have to be thrown out if its on the back straight if its a racing incident and no one is to blame? actually Imho zagar should have been excluded , sweeping from the outside straight across Dudek leaving him no option other than to turn in straight into freddie , if that had been Nicki he would have neenm out before freddie hit the floor Not really. Five rides, 14 points & Doyle wins. Don't like him at all, but he is the best there is right now. On form he was a worthy winner, but he shouldn't have won. Nielsen did have him off though in that same race & had Sam been excluded when not under power (he had lost a chain) in the same race, there is a good chance Andy Smith could have won it It's only Pearson that does that. Yawn. It was an absolutely appalling GP. Track was terrible, but from those I have spoken too in the past, the racing there is rarely decent anyway. The venue as a GP venue is terrible. Basically a speedway track in a field. I went to Pocking in 93, Norden in 83 & Vojens in 88 which were all much the same. Have we really come nowhere in all that time. They should not hold another GP. The referee. Awful. Too many restarts when not required, got the Zmarzlik exclusion woefully wrong & thought was very harsh on Lindgren who was riding in a straight line when Dudek wasn't & they touched. Holder. What a git. Whined like a baby about the track at Lynn & lo & behold has a great GP on a track more suited to motocross. But then he was riding for himself last night, not his team. Finally Doyle. Don't like him at all, but it does look as though he will get a deserved world title this year. I thought Woffindens warning was duff as well , and the subsequent restart cost him a win , 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Track obviously had to be exactly how Holder wants it. Wet and slushy and dangerous is fine..,..dry and grippy off he sulks BUT was it dangerous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Interesting Zager praising PJR for his engines when others are deserting him,proves it more about set-ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 No comparison to the track last night and Lynn on meltdown night. Last night the track was wet but smooth and slick if slushy. Lynn was a dry night but huge grip which caused the issues. Totally opposite track conditions. Was it Kelvin in commentary that said something to the effect, "Dry, wet, grippy, dusty, you've got to ride them all"? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Riders warned for anticipating the start, isn't that what there supposed to do. If there not moving and don't touch the tapes surely that's a perfect start 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Was it Kelvin in commentary that said something to the effect, "Dry, wet, grippy, dusty, you've got to ride them all"? DID he say dangerous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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