Bt Sport Coverage

[CookieIpswich]

So if teams come to the tapes below strength the championship becomes the no.1 league in the country.... Only in speedway

[PHILIPRISING]

So if teams come to the tapes below strength the championship becomes the no.1 league in the country.... Only in speedway

MANY of the Championship sides already look as though they could take on their PL counterparts.

 

I guess you wish to understand what clubs need to do to make ends meet.

 

Bottom line is deep pockets are needed to bridge the gap because I am sure it will also be harder to attract decent sponsorship due to either having no TV or what looks like skeleton coverage from BT.

 

My guess is the difference in sponsorship and TV income from 2017 and 2018 will be £150k.

 

With 2 home and 2 away matches (ignore play offs for moment) then it is around £11k of net income lost per match. If outgoings remain the same as 2017 then clubs will require around 800 extra adults per match (£17 x 800 - 20% VAT) to make ends meet.

 

As I said deep pockets and that is why I believe clubs will come to the tapes under strength in a bid to cut costs and try to survive the season.

NOT sure it will be skeleton coverage. If they are prepared to pay the production costs I would anticipate an upgrade over 2016 in that department.

I remember a time in the not so distant past that the AGM press release gave loads of information, made the rules quite clear and easy to understand and by doing so treating the fans with reverence and respect.

Now its as minimal as you can get with more questions than answers!

 

Do we know when the averages for team building will be available?

WHAT is even more confusing is that different promoters say different things. Agree that the BSPA should have an official spokesman to talk to the media but he or she would need to have just one version of the info at their fingertips. And not come back a couple of days later with a different interpretation.

[Theboss]

NOT sure it will be skeleton coverage. If they are prepared to pay the production costs I would anticipate an upgrade over 2016 in that department.

 

 

Will this upgrade give them the £150k of extra revenue they need from sponsors?

 

Like I say it is the elephant in the room and you like many are ignoring it.

 

Fact is the promoters are right to not accept the BT deal, however from here whatever they do I believe they are in a no win situation and many will struggle to survive if they run as per the current team strength rules.

[BWitcher]

Fact is the promoters are right to not accept the BT deal, however from here whatever they do I believe they are in a no win situation and many will struggle to survive if they run as per the current team strength rules.

 

Hardly surprising.

 

Many of us predicted this over ten years ago. NO business survives by constantly cutting the standard.

 

Not enough fans.. cut the standard.. fans walk away..

 

AGM..

 

Not enough fans.. cut the standard.. fans walk away..

 

AGM..

 

Not enough fans.. cut the standard.. fans walk away.

 

Season after season.

 

Eventually you get to a point where it's just not viable to operate anymore as you can't cut any further.. we're approaching that point.

Edited December 1, 2017 by BWitcher

[stevebrum]

WHAT is even more confusing is that different promoters say different things. Agree that the BSPA should have an official spokesman to talk to the media but he or she would need to have just one version of the info at their fingertips. And not come back a couple of days later with a different interpretation.

And that's why the AGM statement should be crystal clear.

It would make it so much easier.

[Theboss]

 

Hardly surprising.

 

Many of us predicted this over ten years ago. NO business survives by constantly cutting the standard.

 

Not enough fans.. cut the standard.. fans walk away..

 

AGM..

 

Not enough fans.. cut the standard.. fans walk away..

 

AGM..

 

Not enough fans.. cut the standard.. fans walk away.

 

Season after season.

 

Eventually you get to a point where it's just not viable to operate anymore as you can't cut any further.. we're approaching that point.

Sorry but I think you are missing the point. Never mind.

[flagrag]

JChapman- Its interesting that you mention about the loss of money from the Sky sports contract, I am not saying that clubs didn't make something from this final payment.

 

However it has to be remembered out of the 128k that BSPA received they had to contribute £8000 per meeting towards BT production costs so if they accept the 2018 deal although they have not got the money coming in for tv rights they are not paying out 8k per meeting so what BT have offered is an improved deal.

 

If they go down the PPV route it may work but there are going to be some quite significant setup costs to do it correctly if they want to monetise it.

 

Having been to every track and done extensive site visits for Sky I think there is only possibly BV and Wolverhampton that have required broadband backhaul requirements and Wolves could be losing there's as they are due to be going on an SIS managed Fibre system in January which will not allow video as they will want you to use their broadcast service AnyLive service.

 

The lack of decent broadband at tracks is why Sky always had to get BT out to install temporary circuits for tv meetings as stadium owners either would not allow Sky to use their service or it didn't exist.

 

We did trial doing some bits using Live U service which runs over 4G which is fine for static interviews but turns into a blurry mess with fast racing action even if you bind 16 connections together it does not work.

 

This is also the reason why the betting contract meant each track having a satellite broadband dish erected using RaceTech technology and staffing if I remember correctly each meeting cost £750 to do just for one camera

Edited December 1, 2017 by flagrag

[Theboss]

However it has to be remembered out of the 128k that BSPA received they had to contribute £8000 per meeting towards BT production costs so if they accept the 2018 deal although they have not got the money coming in for tv rights they are not paying out 8k per meeting so what BT have offered is an improved deal.

 

Do you mean each club received £128k as I can assure you that was not the deal when I was involved?

[waytogo28]

The elephant in the room that no one is talking about is if the clubs accept the BT offer how will those clubs the bridge the financial gap between the £120k plus they received from sky last season to the £6k they will potentially receive this season.... Plus on top of that two meetings where they will potentially bring in less income as they are being forced to lower their admission to £10?

 

In my opinion this is what is stopping the clubs signing and I can not say I blame them.

 

So what happens if they do not accept the TV deal? Well I would hope they have a back up plan for PPV broadcasting, and if they don't then I can see teams starting 4 or 5 points lower than the 42.5 point limit as they look to cut costs, possibly putting two national league riders at reserve.

 

Shame all of this wasn't thought through prior to AGM. Hindsight was not required, just some business acumen.

 

Critics posting on here do not know the ins and outs of the BSPA negotiations - but looking at it from afar can only , if we are being kind say the BSPA lack much business acumen and others can only sit here rocking with laughter and mocking their apparently Keystone Cops ineptitude. As I do. Where is THE Deal Machine ( Mr Russell ) in all this, is he doing the negotiations? If not who is the promoter/ s entrusted with it? Even less clarity than usual. If Promoters run speedway as their toy then none of this matters because if the BT negotiations break down - the BSPA will be able to say " Huh, we saw them off" .

[mikebv]

It must be hard to negotiate when you don't know what you can bring to the table. .

 

'IF' BT want GP riders then surely the BSPA knew that before the AGM yet then brought out this '9 pt' assessed average for those GP riders not riding over here last season, thus reducing the chances of getting these riders..

 

'IF' they didn't know BT wanted GP riders then why make decisions at the AGM which may then hinder any subsequent TV negotiations without finding out first what BT wanted?

 

Doesn't look very professional either way does it?

 

Nor does the year on year 'drip fed' extras that come out of the AGM, ie those little caveats that don't get announced in the Press release but fundamentally impact its operating model. This years examples (so far) are the 9pt reassessed averages and the change to the 'two Brits' rule..

 

Again the way these things come out often appears unprofessional as people find out via 'talk ins' or third party publicly aired info by 'in the know' random individuals rather than official press releases...

 

BT deal with proper professional Sports governing bodies on an almost daily basis I should imagine..

 

I would also imagine that their level of financial package for any Sport will also be reflective in some part by how they perceive the level of Professionalism of the organisation they are dealing with..

Edited December 2, 2017 by mikebv

[g13webb]

God !!! What a mess

[Steve Shovlar]

God !!! What a mess

 

Dont see a mess at all. I deal with similar situations on an almost daily basis. Its called negotiations and its clear most on this forum would be pretty rubbish at it. Calm, steady, determination to succeed and get the best deal is the order of the day.

 

Many on here would take what they are offered and be happy with their lot. To be a successful negotiator you have to be able to push it to the nth degree without the deal collapsing in a complete disaster.

 

There is bound to be some form of intransigence but both parties want a deal. BT to fill a gap in their summer schedules which will allow them to sell advertising and subscriptions, and the BSPA to showcase their product.

 

BT have started negotiations with a ridiculously low offer, in the hope the majority of promoters will bite and take the deal. Luckily there are some promoters with business savvy minds who can see this is not a fair deal. Like in any deal, from buying a used car to buying a house, we dont offer the asking price on the windscreen or in the estate agents window. We come in low and study the reaction. BT negotiators are doing exactly this. They have made an offer, stepped back and waited. They know, before negotiations have actually started, what price they will be prepared to go up to. Anything less than this is good. The closer it gets to this price the less good it gets. They are lucky that Sky are not also bidding, as that would be a completely different scenario.

 

Another point not brought up is that Polish tv take the feed and broadcast the meetings. They dont get this for free. They also pay for the privilege. Where does that money go? BT or BSPA?

 

The BSPA want the best possible price, full stop. It will probably end up at a price all members will agree on, but it has to be a lot better than the current pitiful offer.

 

I hope a deal can be struck. I enjoy the bonus of watching an extra speedway meeting a week on to of the Swedish and Polish meetings and the live meetings I attend.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Steve Shovlar

[BWitcher]

Sorry but I think you are missing the point. Never mind.

 

Of course I'm not missing the point as this is EXACTLY what I said would happen over ten years ago.

[waytogo28]

Steve Shovlar wrote "There is bound to be some form of intransigence but both parties want a deal. BT to fill a gap in their summer schedules which will allow them to sell advertising and subscriptions, and the BSPA to showcase their product."

 

and " They know, before negotiations have actually started, what price they will be prepared to go up to. Anything less than this is good."

 

​There is much more at stake for the BSPA and I feel certain that BT will not up the offer by very much. I know we'll see. but I think any increase will be less 25%. IF there is an increased offer. And the BSPA would be lucky to get that, for what they have on offer.

[Wolfsbane]

 

Hardly surprising.

 

Many of us predicted this over ten years ago. NO business survives by constantly cutting the standard.

 

Not enough fans.. cut the standard.. fans walk away..

 

AGM..

 

Not enough fans.. cut the standard.. fans walk away..

 

AGM..

 

Not enough fans.. cut the standard.. fans walk away.

 

Season after season.

 

Eventually you get to a point where it's just not viable to operate anymore as you can't cut any further.. we're approaching that point.

Not to mention as standards went down, admission prices went up. A recipe for business disaster if ever there was one.

 

Whilst the speedway dinosaurs lumbered on, refusing to change, the nimble and forward thinking alternative destinations for fans money snuck in through the gate, strolled up the garden path, walked through the back door and nicked the family silver.

[flagrag]

JChapman- No what I was referring to in 2017 was that the BSPA received 128k total to be shared amongst all clubs/Premiership.

 

As they wanted to keep Speedway on tv they asked BT to broadcast some meetings and BSPA paid towards the production costs each week out of the fund they got from Sky at the start of the season.

 

What I have found interesting in these current circumstances is that Go Speed & BSPA have not tried to get Sky back on board other than a brief email to say the rights were available. To me I would have followed this up with emails and set out a deal that Speedway would accept along the lines of what BT have offered with broadcaster paying production costs and a small fee per meeting.

 

I am not saying it would have been approved but just seems very laid back especially as the acquisition team have said door is not permanently closed on Speedway it may have at least got an increased offer out of BT.

[SteveLyric2]

For anyone that attended the Tatum and Pearson show this week, did BT's Natalie Quirk give any comment/clues on 2018 coverage? I know she's only a presenter but every time I've heard her speak she has been positive about 2018 coverage and particularly keen to continue to cross-promote their UK coverage and their SGP schedule.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Skidder1

[Steve Shovlar]

Steve Shovlar wrote "There is bound to be some form of intransigence but both parties want a deal. BT to fill a gap in their summer schedules which will allow them to sell advertising and subscriptions, and the BSPA to showcase their product."

 

and " They know, before negotiations have actually started, what price they will be prepared to go up to. Anything less than this is good."

 

​There is much more at stake for the BSPA and I feel certain that BT will not up the offer by very much. I know we'll see. but I think any increase will be less 25%. IF there is an increased offer. And the BSPA would be lucky to get that, for what they have on offer.

If BT up their offer by 25%, that would mean a further £750 per meeting. And I guess they would throw in some stickers and pens with bt logo on them as well as a show of goodwill?

 

The bspa should turn such a derisory offer down flat. Rather refuse the contract than actually lose money on a deal which would only benefit one party. Clubs would just lose too much money on the deal.

 

Better to walk away and set up a ppv internet channel. Whilst I understand that the internet connections would certainly not be good enough for a tv channel, it should be good enough for the internet. We are not talking 1080p hd streaming. Bspa could then tap into the Polish market as well as the uk fanbase. A fiver to watch a selected Premiership meeting or 20 a month for 4 or 5 live streams would be decent value to fans. 100 subscriptions, which is nothing, would bring in £2000 more than what BT are offering. 200 watching and 7000 pounds more. Obviously costs need to come out but a fast Virgin broadband stream would be adequate.

 

Makes far more sense than BT taking the P.

[waytogo28]

Steve Shovlar

wrote " Better to walk away and set up a ppv internet channel. Whilst I understand that the internet connections would certainly not be good enough for a tv channel, it should be good enough for the internet. We are not talking 1080p hd streaming. Bspa could then tap into the Polish market as well as the uk fanbase. A fiver to watch a selected Premiership meeting or 20 a month for 4 or 5 live streams would be decent value to fans. 100 subscriptions, which is nothing, would bring in £2000 more than what BT are offering. 200 watching and 7000 pounds more. Obviously costs need to come out but a fast Virgin broadband stream would be adequate."

 

I agree with setting up a PPV internet channel and have done for at least three years. I have my sub ready! I just don't feel that BT are bothered if the BSPA take the original idea or not. It was merely my "guess" of BT upping it - by say 25%, just to give the BSPA a feeling that they fought for and got an increase ( however "derisory" ). It could be enough to satisfy the Commission Seeker's fee.

[CookieIpswich]

With those numbers on PPV you would not even break even