Why Not Work With The Poles?

[Fromafar]

British riders are not up to the standard required to compete at the top level in Poland so while a good idea the reality is it cannot happen. Unfortunately two choices, bring the Poles down to the lowest common denominator (will not happen) or GB walk away because riders in the GB are simply not good enough and leave the Poles looking for some alternative opposition which with the Russians, Latvians and a combined Scandinavian presence could be provided. Maybe at individual or pairs but anything else Gab has no chance. Speedway in the U.K. needs to go back to basics and start again if it is to survive, the alternative is oblivion. Accepr that GB riders are not at the same level but might be in a few years

I think it's pretty obvious that GB has to go back to basics, but year after year we seem not to recognise the we are not the force in World Speedway any more.A few of the top riders are just using us to top up their earnings and don't give there all it saving for abroad where their earnings are much bigger.

[Trees]

It's like a role reversal from our dominant years, so we need to now look for same night racedays. We also need tracks that suit the bikes these days .... surely would help our cause?

 

As for working with the Polish, they have the upper hand for now. Do we need to look at the way Denmark have pulled rank?

[Whisperer]

The only way you can work with the Polish federation and clubs is to give them what they want, when they want it each and every time !

[The White Knight]

It's like a role reversal from our dominant years, so we need to now look for same night racedays. We also need tracks that suit the bikes these days .... surely would help our cause?

 

As for working with the Polish, they have the upper hand for now. Do we need to look at the way Denmark have pulled rank?

Personally I would reverse that and say that we need the Bikes to suit the Tracks............

[Guest]

It's like a role reversal from our dominant years, so we need to now look for same night racedays. We also need tracks that suit the bikes these days .... surely would help our cause?

 

As for working with the Polish, they have the upper hand for now. Do we need to look at the way Denmark have pulled rank?

 

That suggestion has been discussed a few times on the BSF. The trouble is the majority of speedway clubs operate in stadiums where they are only the tenants. Other regular events presumably take place in these stadiums on the other nights. Have you a suggestion as to how 'same night' speedway could take place in the UK bearing that factor in mind Trees?

[bluejam]

That's been my thoughts for a long time. Clubs over here need to concentrate on producing their own local talent, rather than expensive imports.

Look at rugby league, how many times have you seen a player tempted over to rugby union by a big pay cheque? It doesn't seem to affect rugby league clubs, they have an impressive conveyor belt of young local talent just waiting to come through.

Hopefully one day speedway will cotton on and be in a similar position.[/quote

 

 

Rugby League teams operate a dual registration system too with fringe/development 1st team players from Super League going out on loan to Championship and Championship 1 teams.

Edited August 6, 2017 by bluejam

[Trees]

That suggestion has been discussed a few times on the BSF. The trouble is the majority of speedway clubs operate in stadiums where they are only the tenants. Other regular events presumably take place in these stadiums on the other nights. Have you a suggestion as to how 'same night' speedway could take place in the UK bearing that factor in mind Trees?

I know the reason why we don't, what can we do, try to build new stadiums that we can use when we want, there's been a few built relatively recently you could say ...

Personally I would reverse that and say that we need the Bikes to suit the Tracks............

That's no good when all these boys come into speedway with the dream of becoming world champion, we need them to be able to rival all the world's talented riders on similar machinery surely?

[waiheke1]

Surely this is something that should be fixed by the FIM and stop Poland dictating to the other nations.

Why should the FIM have the ability to dictate the contract terms Polish clubs are able to offer independent contractors?

I don't know gustix, like I say it's just the kernel of an idea. So something like a Polish and British club sign 14 riders between them, there could be an overlap and when the Poles want to use Jacob Thorsell for example on UK race night they send over one of their assets to replace him, maybe a young Pole looking for experience or a rider struggling for form. They're going to get Thorsell anyway, this way out saves him getting a 28 day ban, the fans get to see a full team and a new rider who in the standard of our league may excel

Iris123 I only mentioned football as I know they operate feeder clubs. Where speedway differs from football is that players only play in one league unlike in speedway, so yes to do exactly the same is as you say ridiculous... But I'm not suggesting speedway does the same... I also find your tone a bit aggressive

It's not a bad idea, but I struggle to see the plus side for the Polish clubs.

From the British side, if say Doyle gets replaced by a young Pole, neither the club nor fans win

I'd also say cost is an issue, flying and sending equipment to the UK for a one off meeting is unlikely to be costveffectuve for rider or club.

I agree though that it's not a battle UK clubs will win. Surely the first step in trying to reach an agreement with any other nation wouldcbevmoving to fixed race night/s.

[Guest]

I don't know gustix, like I say it's just the kernel of an idea. So something like a Polish and British club sign 14 riders between them, there could be an overlap and when the Poles want to use Jacob Thorsell for example on UK race night they send over one of their assets to replace him, maybe a young Pole looking for experience or a rider struggling for form. They're going to get Thorsell anyway, this way out saves him getting a 28 day ban, the fans get to see a full team and a new rider who in the standard of our league may excel

Iris123 I only mentioned football as I know they operate feeder clubs. Where speedway differs from football is that players only play in one league unlike in speedway, so yes to do exactly the same is as you say ridiculous... But I'm not suggesting speedway does the same... I also find your tone a bit aggressive

 

A well considered response iainb. At the least I think what you propose needs to have more positive thought. In life the most unexpected things work out well in the end - and it could be the same in speedway.

I wonder if, as suggested, how feeder clubs in speedway might/could be implemented?

Edited August 7, 2017 by Guest

[Sidney the robin]

I don't know gustix, like I say it's just the kernel of an idea. So something like a Polish and British club sign 14 riders between them, there could be an overlap and when the Poles want to use Jacob Thorsell for example on UK race night they send over one of their assets to replace him, maybe a young Pole looking for experience or a rider struggling for form. They're going to get Thorsell anyway, this way out saves him getting a 28 day ban, the fans get to see a full team and a new rider who in the standard of our league may excelIris123 I only mentioned football as I know they operate feeder clubs. Where speedway differs from football is that players only play in one league unlike in speedway, so yes to do exactly the same is as you say ridiculous... But I'm not suggesting speedway does the same... I also find your tone a bit aggressive

That idea sounds a very good one "iain" they are going to get Thorssell anyway so why not send a pole over to replace him.Someone who maybe needs more meeting's or who might need some more experience i am sure that there are loads of youngsters who would be up for that.Cant see it ever happening though with what happened at Leicester the other night it has got to the stage where i have nearly given up. Edited August 7, 2017 by Sidney the robin

[IainB]

British riders are not up to the standard required to compete at the top level in Poland so while a good idea the reality is it cannot happen. Unfortunately two choices, bring the Poles down to the lowest common denominator (will not happen) or GB walk away because riders in the GB are simply not good enough and leave the Poles looking for some alternative opposition which with the Russians, Latvians and a combined Scandinavian presence could be provided. Maybe at individual or pairs but anything else Gab has no chance. Speedway in the U.K. needs to go back to basics and start again if it is to survive, the alternative is oblivion. Accepr that GB riders are not at the same level but might be in a few years

No British riders are not... but when they are approaching the standard they still find it difficult to secure a spot in the top Polish league, Simon Stead and Lewis Bridger dabbled a few years back and Craig Cook and Robert Lambert are approaching that stage now. Wouldn't it be good if they could be fed into a Polish team from their affiliated UK team

 

Why should the FIM have the ability to dictate the contract terms Polish clubs are able to offer independent contractors?

It's not a bad idea, but I struggle to see the plus side for the Polish clubs.

From the British side, if say Doyle gets replaced by a young Pole, neither the club nor fans win

I'd also say cost is an issue, flying and sending equipment to the UK for a one off meeting is unlikely to be costveffectuve for rider or club.

I agree though that it's not a battle UK clubs will win. Surely the first step in trying to reach an agreement with any other nation wouldcbevmoving to fixed race night/s.

The plus side is that the Polish club gets the rider they want and in return sends over one of their assets that they are looking to develop

 

The British side benefits as the rider doesn't get his 28 day ban, the rider earns his "big money", the fans get to see a full team of their clubs riders, the young pole wouldn't be able to ride for any other club just the club that is affiliated to his Polish team, for example if Poole were to team up with Torun... Brady Kurtz or Jack Holder could only ride for Torun and Daniel Kaczmarek or Norbert Krakowiak could only ride for Poole.

Using Jason Doyle in the Premiership league is like using a sledge hammer to crack a nut he's far to good for UK speedway and once used to the tracks I dare say the young Poles would do a similar job... and don't forget I'm only talking about when there are fixture clashes here, this would not be all of the time, a club would still have the option of using R/R if they saw fit.

 

Cost is absolutely not an issue, it's £30 for a Ryanair or Wizz flight, 1 rider and 2 mechanics £100 split between the 2 clubs... come on! Equipment? bring a couple of engines over as hand luggage fit them into track spares when they arrive

 

Start thinking about how it could be done...

[MattK]

It would be helpful if there was some pragmatism applied to the situation. Given that the vast majority of Polish league meetings are held on a Sunday, the obvious solution to avoid clashes is for the British league to not arrange fixtures on a Sunday.

[iris123]

No British riders are not... but when they are approaching the standard they still find it difficult to secure a spot in the top Polish league, Simon Stead and Lewis Bridger dabbled a few years back and Craig Cook and Robert Lambert are approaching that stage now. Wouldn't it be good if they could be fed into a Polish team from their affiliated UK team

 

The plus side is that the Polish club gets the rider they want and in return sends over one of their assets that they are looking to develop

 

The British side benefits as the rider doesn't get his 28 day ban, the rider earns his "big money", the fans get to see a full team of their clubs riders, the young pole wouldn't be able to ride for any other club just the club that is affiliated to his Polish team, for example if Poole were to team up with Torun... Brady Kurtz or Jack Holder could only ride for Torun and Daniel Kaczmarek or Norbert Krakowiak could only ride for Poole.

Using Jason Doyle in the Premiership league is like using a sledge hammer to crack a nut he's far to good for UK speedway and once used to the tracks I dare say the young Poles would do a similar job... and don't forget I'm only talking about when there are fixture clashes here, this would not be all of the time, a club would still have the option of using R/R if they saw fit.

 

Cost is absolutely not an issue, it's £30 for a Ryanair or Wizz flight, 1 rider and 2 mechanics £100 split between the 2 clubs... come on! Equipment? bring a couple of engines over as hand luggage fit them into track spares when they arrive

 

Start thinking about how it could be done...

Some ideas.What if the polish club want Jason Doyle for good polish wages,but none of the polish clubs riders want t come over for UK wages?We have riders moaning about 200 quid for the meeting yesterday and they are generally used to the wages.Riders n Poland haven't always wanted to ride in the UK for one reason or another.I they want to send someone who hasn't got a visa r doesn't want to ride for the small wage packet the whole thing goes wrong.Holta and the Lagutas for instance haven't shown any enthusiasm

 

That is without the problem of losing a good rider for one with no experience of the tracks,so robbing the fans who pay to get in.And anyway,i am not really sure of the difference between a large squad and a team of 7 riders with numerous guests.....

[IainB]

Some ideas.What if the polish club want Jason Doyle for good polish wages,but none of the polish clubs riders want t come over for UK wages?We have riders moaning about 200 quid for the meeting yesterday and they are generally used to the wages.Riders n Poland haven't always wanted to ride in the UK for one reason or another.I they want to send someone who hasn't got a visa r doesn't want to ride for the small wage packet the whole thing goes wrong.Holta and the Lagutas for instance haven't shown any enthusiasm

 

That is without the problem of losing a good rider for one with no experience of the tracks,so robbing the fans who pay to get in.And anyway,i am not really sure of the difference between a large squad and a team of 7 riders with numerous guests.....

The Polish riders would have to come in return, that would be part of any agreement, take the 2 riders I've picked out, I can't see the likes of Daniel Kaczmarek or Norbert Krakowiak disobeying an agreement that had been setup between Poole and Torun, not if they wanted to ride for Torun again, Torun would surely want these 2 to gain more experience and have some track time.

 

Yes the UK loses a good rider for a few matches a year maybe but instead of having that rider replaced by R/R, a guest, an out of his depth NL rider, the fans get to see a possibly exciting new talent that is affiliated to their club, the upcoming British youngsters get to ride against Polish youngsters of similar ability. The fans are being robbed anyway at the moment. I really can't see any negatives that can't be worked around... except for the one that means it'll never happen unless a forward thinking person is appointed to chair the BSPA

Edited August 7, 2017 by iainb

[iris123]

See there is a weakness in the idea straight away.You are suggesting forceing riders to do something.Something they might not want to.Is it not easier to get our riders to sign up to give us priority rather than dealing with other clubs riders telling them they have to ride in the UK?Maybe just me but i find it unworkeable

[foamfence]

The Polish riders would have to come in return, that would be part of any agreement, take the 2 riders I've picked out, I can't see the likes of Daniel Kaczmarek or Norbert Krakowiak disobeying an agreement that had been setup between Poole and Torun, not if they wanted to ride for Torun again, Torun would surely want these 2 to gain more experience and have some track time.

 

Yes the UK loses a good rider for a few matches a year maybe but instead of having that rider replaced by R/R, a guest, an out of his depth NL rider, the fans get to see a possibly exciting new talent that is affiliated to their club, the upcoming British youngsters get to ride of Polish youngsters of similar ability. The fans are being robbed anyway at the moment. I really can't see any negatives that can't be worked around... except for the one that means it'll never happen unless a forward thinking person is appointed to chair the BSPA

Why should the Poles be remotely interested ? Their ultimate aim is to swamp the GPs (they already hold a quarter of them and have a quarter of the riders) and most GP tracks, with a couple of exceptions, are big Polish type tracks, I can't see how it would benefit them and they have seemingly unlimited practice and coaching facilities to keep them busy anyway. I wouldn't be against it but I can't see it happening, they'd be more likely to link up with the Swedes if anything.

[False dawn]

I quite like this idea. At least if one of your riders is missing you don't have to watch riders from an opposing club riding for you as a guest.

[iris123]

I quite like this idea. At least if one of your riders is missing you don't have to watch riders from an opposing club riding for you as a guest.

All you are going to get is anyone who isn't deemed good enough for the Polish side.In their squad will still possibly be riders from other teams,so rule them out.So basically you are talking about losing one of your best riders for some young Pole who hasn't made the grade in Poland.They aren't too keen on releasing riders for meetings in germany on the saturday as they want everyone there for training etc..Great.Would it not be better for our country to use a rider from the NL then?

Edited August 7, 2017 by iris123

[IainB]

See there is a weakness in the idea straight away.You are suggesting forceing riders to do something.Something they might not want to.Is it not easier to get our riders to sign up to give us priority rather than dealing with other clubs riders telling them they have to ride in the UK?Maybe just me but i find it unworkeable

You may call it forcing, I would probably call it honouring a signed contract between a rider and a club. How's the getting "our" riders to give us priority idea going at the moment? Ain't never going to happen, especially with episodes like what has just gone on at Peterborough. Sometimes you just have to face up to the fact that you (British Speedway) aren't the force you once were and start to look forward and not back

 

Why should the Poles be remotely interested ? Their ultimate aim is to swamp the GPs (they already hold a quarter of them and have a quarter of the riders) and most GP tracks, with a couple of exceptions, are big Polish type tracks, I can't see how it would benefit them and they have seemingly unlimited practice and coaching facilities to keep them busy anyway. I wouldn't be against it but I can't see it happening, they'd be more likely to link up with the Swedes if anything.

They wouldn't have riders sat on the sidelines not developing... and maybe, just maybe if we develop some of their riders, which we're doing anyway in a rather hap hazard way at the moment... we may just sneak some of ours in along the way. No I can't see it happening either but unless something radical happens where does UK speedway go... exactly why we should get in there before the Swedes. The one advantage British Speedway does have is the sheer number of matches that are staged

Would it not be better for our country to use a rider from the NL then?

You mean like Luke Priest replacing KK for Rye House the other night?

[iris123]

 

You mean like Luke Priest replacing KK for Rye House the other night?

Personally i think it better for the future we try to bring our riders on rather than some guy stuck on the sidelines of a Polish club