g13webb Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 What is it with that you always try to take the high ground when referring to my posts. I live in the real world and take on the situations as they are, not as you would like them to be.. What happened at Leicester this weekend were caused by many reasons, but done by a specific rider wanting to race in Poland, as was the case at Peterborough. Peterborough were put in, a no win situation. By releasing Jack from the 4 team meeting they have retained a workable relationship with Jack. Had they refused, the chances being Jack would probably have decided against riding for them next year. This way bath parties are happy and can go forward. All the crap about making a stand against Polish Speedway is pathetic. we will always lose out to their financial implications. We need to make our own rules that safeguards British Speedway. we want to make them transparent and sustainable . We don't want to fall over ourselves, but we need to comply with their schedule. We need to appreciate where we are in the picking order. We are not strong enough to fight them so we construct a program where we can fit into their existence. We need to get our own house in order before we start going to war with other countries...If we do as you suggest and fight against them, we will lose the riders, the clubs and the sport......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 So its happening again, young Aussie comes over to Uk with a freshly issued visa, gets good apprenticeship, uses that time well, then hops off to somewhere else. This is different to years gone by, where Aussies came over to make their WHOLE career based in the UK. UK needs clauses in contracts that state UK has first choice, and make this a condition of riding over here in the first place. Exactly what people are complaining about Poland doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master 88 Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 If ANYBODY is on a UK visa that should be there first commitment, The Problem is when you hear so many clubs(Business) losing money Peterborough saw a chance to get some income for nothing, Cant blame them, there are wanting to make money not loose it. I cant stand the way The Aussies think its there right to use and abuse British Speedway but this Time I can see no wrong in what Holder did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tellboy Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 What is it with that you always try to take the high ground when referring to my posts. I live in the real world and take on the situations as they are, not as you would like them to be.. What happened at Leicester this weekend were caused by many reasons, but done by a specific rider wanting to race in Poland, as was the case at Peterborough. Peterborough were put in, a no win situation. By releasing Jack from the 4 team meeting they have retained a workable relationship with Jack. Had they refused, the chances being Jack would probably have decided against riding for them next year. This way bath parties are happy and can go forward. All the crap about making a stand against Polish Speedway is pathetic. we will always lose out to their financial implications. We need to make our own rules that safeguards British Speedway. we want to make them transparent and sustainable . We don't want to fall over ourselves, but we need to comply with their schedule. We need to appreciate where we are in the picking order. We are not strong enough to fight them so we construct a program where we can fit into their existence. We need to get our own house in order before we start going to war with other countries...If we do as you suggest and fight against them, we will lose the riders, the clubs and the sport......... Just giving my opinion.I do it with other posters too,believe it or not.You must have worries if you think i pick on your posts all the time.You gave your opinion and i gave mine,simple really. And i didn't say make a stand against Poland at all,just that taking riders on a whim is taking the mick.If they had signed riders at the start of the season then fair enough.But to give Peterborough probably not even a weeks notice is taking the pee don't you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 If ANYBODY is on a UK visa that should be there first commitment, The Problem is when you hear so many clubs(Business) losing money Peterborough saw a chance to get some income for nothing, Cant blame them, there are wanting to make money not loose it. I cant stand the way The Aussies think its there right to use and abuse British Speedway but this Time I can see no wrong in what Holder did. They'd be on a Polish visa as well. Should they make that their first commitment too? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 (edited) Have to agree..........Im not aware of any rules that say the 4 must be your top 4 that ride in the fours if there isnt what rules have been broken? file:///C:/Users/User/AppData/Local/Microsoft/Windows/Temporary%20Internet%20Files/Content.IE5/4JD6NV1E/2017%20SR%20-%20SGBC%204TT.pdf Peterborough agreed to the move between 3 parties, themselves, Torun & Jack but against the ruling body. Edited August 7, 2017 by IronScorpion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master 88 Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 Sorry Misunderstood about Visas I thought You had to get a visa To live and work in a country before getting to work in other countries therefore the UK visa would be the main one hence my comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 Exactly what people are complaining about Poland doing. No its not the same. The poles are restricting a rider in the Polish league to max 2 other countries. OK if they are raising a raw rider into something that would be a betterment to their team, but they only do that mostly with Polish riders. What I was saying is if you take on a rider, give them the right encouragement and facilities, then the before they can make another country his main riding place. Its logical if you invest in someone then you expect some return, not that they just get up and go when they half good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 No its not the same. The poles are restricting a rider in the Polish league to max 2 other countries. OK if they are raising a raw rider into something that would be a betterment to their team, but they only do that mostly with Polish riders. What I was saying is if you take on a rider, give them the right encouragement and facilities, then the before they can make another country his main riding place. Its logical if you invest in someone then you expect some return, not that they just get up and go when they half good. The Poles have made it so that their league gets priority. British clubs (although I believe Poole refused) had to sign a contract to say that Polish fixtures get priority if there is a fixture clash. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leander Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 If ANYBODY is on a UK visa that should be there first commitment, The Problem is when you hear so many clubs(Business) losing money Peterborough saw a chance to get some income for nothing, Cant blame them, there are wanting to make money not loose it. I cant stand the way The Aussies think its there right to use and abuse British Speedway but this Time I can see no wrong in what Holder did. I can. If I'd signed a contract to do a job for an employer over several months then told him "Sorry, but next week I'm working for somebody else as he's giving me more money" I'm bloody sure I'll be out on my arse double quick. People say the "fours" doesn't have to be your top 4. True. BUT you have to declare your team by a certain date, and Peterborough did that with Holder in the squad. If they had declared their squad without him in it then that wouldn't be a problem, but to withdraw him for a "non injury" reason is not on. He was already being used for promotional purposes, etc. to attract fans to the meeting, Personally I'd like to see him given a 28 day ban, with Peterborough only being allowed a NL guest to cover. For every occasion during the ban if he rides for another foreign team on the same day as Peterborough have a fixture I'd extend it by a further 28 days. It's hardly an effective ban if he's still earning money by riding abroad on the same day he should be sitting on his backside contemplating his decision. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 What is it with that you always try to take the high ground when referring to my posts. I live in the real world and take on the situations as they are, not as you would like them to be.. What happened at Leicester this weekend were caused by many reasons, but done by a specific rider wanting to race in Poland, as was the case at Peterborough. Peterborough were put in, a no win situation. By releasing Jack from the 4 team meeting they have retained a workable relationship with Jack. Had they refused, the chances being Jack would probably have decided against riding for them next year. This way bath parties are happy and can go forward. All the crap about making a stand against Polish Speedway is pathetic. we will always lose out to their financial implications. We need to make our own rules that safeguards British Speedway. we want to make them transparent and sustainable . We don't want to fall over ourselves, but we need to comply with their schedule. We need to appreciate where we are in the picking order. We are not strong enough to fight them so we construct a program where we can fit into their existence. We need to get our own house in order before we start going to war with other countries...If we do as you suggest and fight against them, we will lose the riders, the clubs and the sport......... There is absolutely no chance that Jack Holder will be riding Championship speedway next season- he will ride Premiership, Poland and Sweden. I do not expect the Polish and 2 other to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leander Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 Sorry Misunderstood about Visas I thought You had to get a visa To live and work in a country before getting to work in other countries therefore the UK visa would be the main one hence my comment It depends on the country whether you need a visa or not, and the conditions you need to fulfil to qualify. UK is actually one of the most restrictive with regards to qualification criteria. I seem to remember a few years ago an aussie, can't for the life of me remember who, visa expired mid season and didn't qualify for a new one so he went and raced on he continent and gave UK a miss that season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 The Poles have made it so that their league gets priority. British clubs (although I believe Poole refused) had to sign a contract to say that Polish fixtures get priority if there is a fixture clash. and so should UK protect its interest - UK speedway is as important as foreign speedway. Perhaps more clubs should have taken a Matt Ford stand. Is it OK for clubs like Peterborough to let a rider who they already declared and promoted for advertising purposes certain riders would riding, only for them to be offered some money to let a rider ride in Poland. Not showing much regard for the British paying public, in fact its an assumption that it is ok to rip the British public off - talk about Rip Off britain, make a good tv program out of situations similar to what happened at the weekend. I do think promoters at times rely on the die hard staunch British speedway supporter to turn up with their £20 or whatever no matter what show is put on. Trouble is, these die hards are diminishing and not being replaced at the same rate rate with new younger speedway supporters. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leander Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 That's a Brexit sort of attitude. The world doesn't revolve around Britain. But British speedway should! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryW Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 No its not the same. The poles are restricting a rider in the Polish league to max 2 other countries. OK if they are raising a raw rider into something that would be a betterment to their team, but they only do that mostly with Polish riders. They do develop riders from other Countries and seem quite happy to do that. Riders from the likes of Russia and Ukraine in particular are regularly brought into Polish squads at a very young age and given every assistance to develop. For example, Sayfutdinov, Vaculik and Lebedevs along with many others all started in the Polish league as soon as they turned 16. Unlike most British clubs, most of the Polish teams can offer regular training and coaching sessions on track. The surprise packet of the Speedway World Cup, Gleb Chugunov, has been signed to Polish league clubs since he was 16 and regularly trained with his club. I have doubts that he would have made such an impression without the development work put in by his Polish team. Australians tend to prefer to come to the UK and get regular meetings to prove themselves rather than going to Poland and working their way through the way that Russians do. If the Aussies wanted to take that route I'm sure there would be clubs willing to sign them. It's also worth mentioning that developing a rider doesn't start and end in their first season of league racing. Just because riders have made it to a certain level before they join a Polish team, it doesn't mean that they don't help to develop them further. Many young riders get opportunities in Poland well before they have "made it". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 What I find odd is that people think riders "owe" British speedway something. If my employer trains me while I work, do I "owe them" anything more than giving 100% effort while I work for them? If a footballer joins a lower league club, do the fans or club complain if they move onto bigger and better things? If people go to see a movie with an unknown actor, does that actor somehow "owe" the fans something? Or do all parties actually benefit when a young talent rides in bits in? The rider develops his skills and gets paid. The club has a ruder who performs well (if he doesn't he's likely to be dropped). The fans get to see a talented young rider - does it matter where they are from? Most Audries have actually been pretty loyal to the UK. Sure part of it is likely to be that they prefer to live here than Europe. Sure some of them have a reputation for whinging. But fact is that Doyle Ward Batch Holder etc have all consistently rode in Britain, unlike others such as Hancock, Nicki P etc. People say earlier riders like Crump, Sanders and Adams showed greater commitment to the UK than the current crop. But you can guarantee that they, Mauger etc would have prioritised Poland if that is where the money, and the top standard of racing, was. Not saying we should be doormats - I would restrict doubling up to brits and would have given both thorssel and jolder a ban - but some of the criticism of aussies on here is way out of proportion. And the hypocrisy of those who have whinged about polish regulations but see no irony in demanding they be put in place in the uk- is staggering. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 And the hypocrisy of those who have whinged about polish regulations but see no irony in demanding they be put in place in the uk- is staggering. and I find it staggering that you find it staggering. If Poland protects its speedway that then affects British speedway, then British speedway needs to be protected as well. If Poland hadnt brought in protectionism then I doubt the matter would be being discussed on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me wolfie Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 Says in The Sun that Chapman is appalled with the situation and appropriate sanctions will be taken, whatever that means Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 Says in The Sun that Chapman is appalled with the situation and appropriate sanctions will be taken, whatever that meansThey probably haven't even decided yet!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 They probably haven't even decided yet!! I doubt he knows himself.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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