West Ham How Good Was The Track.?

[iris123]

Not being a speedway rider i wonder how much difference it would make to cut 25 yards off the length.2 secoonds off the track record sounds quite a bit,but it was the 'smaller' track that most here saw and Briggo among others loved

 

Hard for me as just a fan to really jiudge whether it made that much difference and made the track less of a full throttle to a more technical track.Plus again guessing i would have thought Young would have been used to big tracks in Australia?

Edited July 31, 2017 by iris123

[BL65]

Not being a speedway rider i wonder how much difference it would make to cut 25 yards off the length.2 secoonds off the track record sounds quite a bit,but it was the 'smaller' track that most here saw and Briggo among others loved

 

Hard for me as just a fan to really jiudge whether it made that much difference and made the track less of a full throttle to a more technical track.Plus again guessing i would have thought Young would have been used to big tracks in Australia?

Following the 1953 Wembley World Final there was a comment in the Speedway News that the wet conditions had not suited Jack Young and his gating was so bad that he was fighting from behind most of the time. There had been comments about processional racing at Custom House during that season and perhaps Young and others, particularly those who were slow out of the starts, felt that by taking the bends in it would make for better overtaking prospects. Nevertheless, during 1953 Young averaged 11.48 in team matches at West Ham and that included dropping 6 points in one meeting against Norwich when he had two pointless rides out of five, so he clearly wasn't experiencing too many problems on the 440 yards circuit.

[iris123]

Following the 1953 Wembley World Final there was a comment in the Speedway News that the wet conditions had not suited Jack Young and his gating was so bad that he was fighting from behind most of the time. There had been comments about processional racing at Custom House during that season and perhaps Young and others, particularly those who were slow out of the starts, felt that by taking the bends in it would make for better overtaking prospects. Nevertheless, during 1953 Young averaged 11.48 in team matches at West Ham and that included dropping 6 points in one meeting against Norwich when he had two pointless rides out of five, so he clearly wasn't experiencing too many problems on the 440 yards circuit.

Thanks for your often enlightening and interesting contributions Always add something to the debate

[Sidney the robin]

He certainly wasn't as good round small tracks. I think the year he rode for New Cross was just about his worst ever - well, since he had become a top clas rider in the mid 50s.

Going back to 1960 as you said "norbold" it was not a great year for Briggs he even scored only paid 3 at Hyde Rd which is unbelievable to be honest.I often thought were Briggs/Craven better on the bigger tracks? where as Fundin and Mirac were generally the same level everywhere.Saying that from Southampton/Swindon onwards Briggs stats are mighty impressive they speak for themselves i think the hard times he had at early Wimbledon made him the rider he was.

[norbold]

Going back to 1960 as you said "norbold" it was not a great year for Briggs he even scored only paid 3 at Hyde Rd which is unbelievable to be honest.I often thought were Briggs/Craven better on the bigger tracks? where as Fundin and Mirac were generally the same level everywhere.Saying that from Southampton/Swindon onwards Briggs stats are mighty impressive they speak for themselves i think the hard times he had at early Wimbledon made him the rider he was.

Yes, I tend to agree, Sid. I guess first impressions always count for a lot and my first impressions were formed through my first two years at speedway in 1960 and 61. Fundin was almost unbeatable round New Cross (apart from the memorabe occasion when Split beat him three times in one night!) whereas Briggs and Craven never seemed to be able to fully get to grips with it. So I've always tended, probably unfairly, to downgrade Briggs and Craven when considering the "greatest ever" as against Fundin, who I still think is the greatest rider in my time.

 

Interestingly, given the discussion above about Jack Young and West Ham, Youngie was another rider who rode New Cross really well and even though he was past his best by 1961, he still had the beating of Craven and Briggo at New Cross in individual meetings. It made me realise just what a good rider he must have been at his peak.

[Sidney the robin]

Yes, I tend to agree, Sid. I guess first impressions always count for a lot and my first impressions were formed through my first two years at speedway in 1960 and 61. Fundin was almost unbeatable round New Cross (apart from the memorabe occasion when Split beat him three times in one night!) whereas Briggs and Craven never seemed to be able to fully get to grips with it. So I've always tended, probably unfairly, to downgrade Briggs and Craven when considering the "greatest ever" as against Fundin, who I still think is the greatest rider in my time.

Interestingly, given the discussion above about Jack Young and West Ham, Youngie was another rider who rode New Cross really well and even though he was past his best by 1961, he still had the beating of Craven and Briggo at New Cross in individual meetings. It made me realise just what a good rider he must have been at his peak.

As you know i am a avid fan of Briggs but he was quite a big guy with a awkward style but for me that is what made him box office really exciting to watch.That is why i always wondered would the technical tracks of been more of a challenge to Briggo where say at Hyde Rd it was not.You could see why that track would be made for him wind it on gate or not and head straight for the dirt going back to 1960 going back over the records Fundin did not lose to many races that year.? Edited July 31, 2017 by Sidney the robin

[cityrebel]

Briggo was tailor made for the wide open spaces of West ham. His bustling no nonsense style suited the track perfectly. He was also excellent at plough lane, where a racing brain was just as important as a fast motor.

[Sidney the robin]

Briggo was tailor made for the wide open spaces of West ham. His bustling no nonsense style suited the track perfectly. He was also excellent at plough lane, where a racing brain was just as important as a fast motor.

"City --- would you have classed Briggs as a decent gater or not? i think he could gate but alot of my memories of him at the Abbey was coming from the back quite alot and being a real racer.

[cityrebel]

He wasn't the best gater, be he certainly used to bully riders on the first turn to gain an advantage. Passing opponents wasn't a problem for Briggo either.

[Sidney the robin]

He wasn't the best gater, be he certainly used to bully riders on the first turn to gain an advantage. Passing opponents wasn't a problem for Briggo either.

Did that mistake in 72 slightly drifting off the line ( similar to Carter mistake v Penhall 82) allowing Persson to attack cost Briggs equalling Ove's fifth world title? I think so a shame really that brought to an end of a great WC career. Edited August 1, 2017 by Sidney the robin

[keef robin]

1971 was the Hammers last year. Clarke and Kasper weren't in the team. Newcomers that year included Preben Rosenkilde, Mick Handley, Allan Belham, Alan Sage and Barry Duke. They finished bottom of the league and then it was all over.

Cor Blimey Barry the Duke, was chatting to him in Homebase north Swindon the other day. Think he rode for the Robins in 1970.

My fav memory of West Am was watching Bjorn Knutsson around 1964 after New Cross closed.

Would say Fundin and Briggo best 2 riders I saw from the mid-60s.

Can remember having my text read out on BBC London radio show on "Defunct London sports stadiums" a few years ago.

[Sidney the robin]

Sverre Harrfeldt was top class from 65/68 for the old Hammers i always felt Harrfeldt and Arne Pander were similar both so unlucky with injuries.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Sidney the robin

[norbold]

Cor Blimey Barry the Duke, was chatting to him in Homebase north Swindon the other day. Think he rode for the Robins in 1970.

My fav memory of West Am was watching Bjorn Knutsson around 1964 after New Cross closed.

Would say Fundin and Briggo best 2 riders I saw from the mid-60s.

Can remember having my text read out on BBC London radio show on "Defunct London sports stadiums" a few years ago.

Bjorn was real class at West Ham, sadly only there for one year. Do you remember Bjorn's Bonanza? In the second half, Bjorn used to take on the top scorer from the away team in a match race. I think he won every time including against Ove Fundin and Barry Briggs.

 

I also remember one occasion when he had a special match race against Briggo because Bjorn said the fastest way round Custom House was on the inside, while Briggo maintained it was round the outside. So they lined up with Bjorn off no.1 and Briggo, no.3. Bjorn gated first and promptly went to the outside leaving Briggo on the inside. Bjorn won, thus proving Briggo right!

 

I also remember your text being read out. I was in the studio at the time having to respond to some of these texts!

[cityrebel]

Sverre Harrfeldt was top class from 65/68 for the old Hammers i always felt Harrfeldt and Arne Pander were similar both so unlucky with injuries.

I only saw sverre post injury, although he was pretty decent for wembley in 1971.

[Sidney the robin]

I only saw sverre post injury, although he was pretty decent for wembley in 1971.

Always thought he had sorted a deal out to ride for Oxford once but it did not happen a class rider.

[cityrebel]

Always thought he had sorted a deal out to ride for Oxford once but it did not happen a class rider.

1972, I think. Edited August 2, 2017 by cityrebel

[steve roberts]

1972, I think.

I think it was a Dave Lanning publicity stunt...but, yes, there was talk of him joining 'The Rebels' in 1972.

[BL65]

Do you remember Bjorn's Bonanza? In the second half, Bjorn used to take on the top scorer from the away team in a match race. I think he won every time including against Ove Fundin and Barry Briggs.

 

 

Not quite every time, he lost one, to Ron How, when Oxford visited on 16th June. How beat Knutson in heats 1 and 6 of the league match, although Bjorn was off a 20 yard handicap. How scored a 12 point maximum, then went on to beat Knutson in the Bonanza and in heat one of the the scratch races, although Bjorn qualified as fastest second and beat Ron in the final.

[norbold]

Thanks BL. I didn't see that match, so don't have the programme. Thanks for setting the record straight.

Edited August 2, 2017 by norbold