Poole 2018

[BANANAMAN]

Steve Shovlar, on 18 Aug 2017 - 10:24 AM, said:

Absolutely stonking signing!

 

Well done Matt Ford. Woryna is a simply stunning talent and watching him race this year in Poland has been special. Even last night he showed Zmarzlik the way home in the pairs and has been banging in big scores nearly every week in the Polish top flight. And only 19 years old.

 

Destined for the GPs in the next couple of years imo. Get in there!

Why has he not ridden in the UK this season Steve ?

[Mimmo]

Richie Worrall came in and did a good job for Poole in their hour of need, and I'd have thought it would have been a nice gesture by Matt Ford to offer a talented Brit a job before an overseas rider.

[Steve0]

Richie Worrall came in and did a good job for Poole in their hour of need, and I'd have thought it would have been a nice gesture by Matt Ford to offer a talented Brit a job before an overseas rider.

:rofl:

 

Only if on a "ringer" average

[waiheke1]

Don't get why you think it's ludicrous tho.

Both Poles had very average seasons when they rode for Coventry and Wolves respectively.

Woryna rode last season so only has had one season out the sport. Tobi has had 2 seasons out the UK before signing for Swindon.

On this issue the ruling is very clear however .... More than 2 seasons out of the UK. Both riders haven't had more than 2 seasons out the UK.

Have either progressed massively to require a reassessment???? Not that much in all honesty.

Ok- firstly I think averages should be based on the previous season, so if a rider skips a season in the uk their average should be based on a converted average from overseas leagues.

Woryna has gone from being a 5pt rider in Poland to an 8pt rider who finished 2nd on the Ekstraliga riders championship. If you don't consider that a significant improvement I'd be interested to know what he would have needed to do for you to consider it one?

As for Musielak - from memory he averaged 4.6 from the mouth tougher HL spot so that average was already artificially low. But the really ridiculous thing is at the start of the season he would have come in with a 1.4 multiplier. So a little under 7. The points limit was dropped mid season by 16%. So logically the multiplier should have dropped to around1.2. But bewilderingly the multiplier was dropped altogether, so Musielak came in on an average effectively 16% lower than if he had been signed at the start of the season. How can you not think that is the most ludicrous rule on a long line of ludicrous rules around averages?

When Coventry sign half their 2011 team and they changed the rules to screw the club I seem to remember a number of Poole fans claiming it was foolish to sign riders before the AGM.

 

I hope Poole get idioted over. As for Woryna, he's got his wish. I just wish he'd never signed for Coventry int he first place. I'll never forgive him for signing and giving an interview in the Speedway Star waxing lyrical about Poole - still, it meant Havvy had someone to get excited about in the pits with when Poole were doing well.

Tbf if he is given an 8pt average that isn't Poole being screwed over, its commonsense.

If they somehow get him on a 4.6 fair play to them for a good signing.

Edited August 18, 2017 by waihekeaces1

[Trees]

Richie Worrall came in and did a good job for Poole in their hour of need, and I'd have thought it would have been a nice gesture by Matt Ford to offer a talented Brit a job before an overseas rider.

Matt sees averages first and foremost...

[Starman2006]

Just hope the fans and club exercise patience with the lad.

 

The UK tracks are not like Poland and in my opinion UK requires more skill on smaller tracks which are also in the main not up to the quality of the Polish tracks OVERALL.

 

Magic proved that having some years in UK improved him no end over a 3/4 year period to make him what he is now i.e a potential World Champion. Lets not get carried away though. Poole need a period of calm after the calamities of this year. If they can secure a top flight number one (like a Magic again) and have good strength in depth with the likes of Kurtz and Holder JR to hopefully come on as well as maybe Shanes and Newman (or a.n.other) then the lad wont have the World on his shoulders.

 

Whatever the general opinion is on Chris Holder (and for sure its divided especially amongst other teams supporters) I still think he is a steal at 7.16. Some are writing him off as a has been who is only using British Speedway. This year its no secret he has struggled with the engines not being tuned good enough to give him the speed we know he is capable of. Look at his scores in Poland when he rode 2/3 matches on Medzinskis equipment recently. Much more like the old Chris Holder. I think a more focused Chris in 2018 back at his home club Poole on hopefully better running equipment with his friend and co Aussie Brady as well as younger Brother Jack could revitalise him. At 7.16 one would be crazy not to take him back. For all the negative press amongst some supporters and Promoter.../s he could be a good influence if he channels the positives. He needs to also put the Darcy horror and the difficulties of his personal relationship last year behind him. Coming back to Poole also keeps him close to his boy who we know he loves to bits.

 

I would like to think a more focused Chris will rediscover his form if he can also get his engines and mind set sorted.

 

Whatever the issues, id take him back tomorrow.

[LisaColette]

Whatever the issues, id take him back tomorrow.

I'd rather he sorted them out first!!

[Starman2006]

I'd rather he sorted them out first!!

If there is a problem Matt is not on for holding grudges. Its business not personal.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Starman2006

[foreverblue]

If there is a problem Matt is not on for holding grudges. Its business not personal.

I hope Kyle has the same attitude. Because he would be the first brit on my list to ride for Poole.

[STEVEHOLS54]

A question for Skidder1 and anyone else wanting to comment.

 

My thoughts posted earlier on 2018 Poole team were.

 

Magic/Chris Holder/B.Kurtz/J.Holder/Kacper Woryna/Kyle Newman/J.Shanes

 

On the basis of current GSA (starting 21/8) it just scrapes in (by 0.25) on a 42 point av and meets a 2 Brits rule.

 

Skidder commented on another thread that he thought I would be lucky to see 3 or 4 of those names in for 2018. My question to Skidder when back online is who in his opinion does he NOT think will be in my 7 named and any other thoughts on who would/might be. Same comment to other posters.

 

Early days I know but certain posters incl Skidder seem to normally have insight as to what MIGHT happen like the Woryna signing which was kind of hinted or clues given well before the announcement.

[Mattfordfan]

Just need 2 more riders now. Robert Lambert and James Shanes?

 

1. Brady Kurtz

2. Kacper Woryna

3. Chris Holder

4. Jack Holder

5.

6. Kyle Newman

7.

[LisaColette]

Just need 2 more riders now. Robert Lambert and James Shanes?

 

1. Brady Kurtz

2. Kacper Woryna

3. Chris Holder

4. Jack Holder

5.

6. Kyle Newman

7.

I don't like it.

[nelliejim]

Just need 2 more riders now. Robert Lambert and James Shanes?

 

1. Brady Kurtz

2. Kacper Woryna

3. Chris Holder

4. Jack Holder

5.

6. Kyle Newman

7.

i would have Shanes over Newman

[Steve Shovlar]

Why has he not ridden in the UK this season Steve ?

No idea. I do know that Mich Horton was not going to use him if Coventry had run this year as he didn't rate the lad. Perhaps that shows his ability to spot talent.

 

I watched Woryna's scoring for Coventry and while he struggled at times there were flashes of talent and it's ignited big time this season with three points on his average in the toughest league in the world.

 

Woryna, along with Maxim Drabik, are both very young precocious talents and the next two top Poles to join the ever increasing ranks of Polish superstars. We just have no one like them.

[ray c]

I think jack is not going to be committed to brittish speedway in the future he sees his self in poland and with chris missing early season through suspension would matt take a chance on them not sure my self ?

[Steve Shovlar]

A question for Skidder1 and anyone else wanting to comment.

 

My thoughts posted earlier on 2018 Poole team were.

 

Magic/Chris Holder/B.Kurtz/J.Holder/Kacper Woryna/Kyle Newman/J.Shanes

 

On the basis of current GSA (starting 21/8) it just scrapes in (by 0.25) on a 42 point av and meets a 2 Brits rule.

 

Skidder commented on another thread that he thought I would be lucky to see 3 or 4 of those names in for 2018. My question to Skidder when back online is who in his opinion does he NOT think will be in my 7 named and any other thoughts on who would/might be. Same comment to other posters.

 

Early days I know but certain posters incl Skidder seem to normally have insight as to what MIGHT happen like the Woryna signing which was kind of hinted or clues given well before the announcement.

What is very important and a trap I believe the Poole promotion fell into this season, is of journeymen. Riders who have reached their limit of ability and make a living from it by maximising their earning potential. This is of course a common sense approach by the riders concerned, of which their are many, but these riders will rarely win a championship for the clubs they represent.

 

To these riders it is a job, the same as any other job. Clearly its a risky job but riders can somewhat lessen the risk by staying out of trouble and riding as safe as they can whilst clearly at the same time have the threat of being ploughed in to.

 

A rider can cover three leagues, have a 7.5 average through his gating ability and earn a good wage. Want to stick another point on his average? That is risk. Risk of making a pass which could see the rider in the fence. Which means weeks out and no money coming in. Better to sit in second and take the two points, or in third behind your team mate for a paid second. Only if last does the rider need to do something about it. And that's if he is only on points money. If he is on wages, he is being paid anyway so why risk his neck and be on the sidelines? By doing this a speedway career can continue into the riders late 30's, when finally nerves get the better of them.

 

And I believe we ended up with journeymen in 2017. What we need is young, aggressive riders desperate to improve, alongside a couple of top riders who do take the risks when required. Pretty sure Matt is well aware of this.

[Trackrat]

Absolutely stonking signing!

Well done Matt Ford. Woryna is a simply stunning talent and watching him race this year in Poland has been special. Even last night he showed Zmarzlik the way home in the pairs and has been banging in big scores nearly every week in the Polish top flight. And only 19 years old.

Destined for the GPs in the next couple of years imo. Get in there!

Coventry reject that's all.

[DC2]

Just need 2 more riders now. Robert Lambert and James Shanes?

 

1. Brady Kurtz

2. Kacper Woryna

3. Chris Holder

4. Jack Holder

5.

6. Kyle Newman

7.

 

It's looking all a bit THIS YEAR. Crap. Don't say we didn't tell you.

[dump that clutch]

Maybe not. But you watch him come on in leaps and bounds at poole.

 

same old dross being spouted out... didnt you say "just watch KK go, he raises his game for us" or words to that effect.. change the record Starman, or perhaps it's stuck..

 

I hope Kyle has the same attitude. Because he would be the first brit on my list to ride for Poole.

i hope he gives MF the Churchill salute after the way he binned him out on his ear..

[stevebrum]

Ok- firstly I think averages should be based on the previous season, so if a rider skips a season in the uk their average should be based on a converted average from overseas leagues.

Woryna has gone from being a 5pt rider in Poland to an 8pt rider who finished 2nd on the Ekstraliga riders championship. If you don't consider that a significant improvement I'd be interested to know what he would have needed to do for you to consider it one?

As for Musielak - from memory he averaged 4.6 from the mouth tougher HL spot so that average was already artificially low. But the really ridiculous thing is at the start of the season he would have come in with a 1.4 multiplier. So a little under 7. The points limit was dropped mid season by 16%. So logically the multiplier should have dropped to around1.2. But bewilderingly the multiplier was dropped altogether, so Musielak came in on an average effectively 16% lower than if he had been signed at the start of the season. How can you not think that is the most ludicrous rule on a long line of ludicrous rules around averages?

 

They have messed the averages up big time for several seasons now.

This season they messed up with those ridiculously converted averages over 12. Otherwise the principle of what they were trying to achieve seemed logical and promising. Sadly that's when it goes wrong.

Having then allowed riders to achieve 'real' averages (good in my book) they messed up with trying to get everyone on a real average at the same time even reassessing some riders who didn't fit the 4H 4A criteria. (Another mistake).

And that's when things got really messed up by dropping any conversion to new riders coming into the league. (Another ill thought out rule).

However despite pointing all that out a rider like Tobi came into the league when no conversion was required. That's the point where this argument comes into its own.

I have no issue with him coming in for Swindon as the rules allow it. Should he have been reassessed or not? ? I personally don't see any reason why.

As for Woryna, I've already acknowledged that he has a higher Polish average than I realised so it will be interesting to see if the 'more than 2 seasons out' rule applies again next season or that's altered to basically affect one rider.

 

If the rules had any level of consistency it might make discussions like these much easier!