Steve0 Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Ellis won't be back (he wants to stay at Swindon), other than that you could be pretty much spot on there fella Matt F has already stated that Woryna and Shanes will be in (barring anything significant at the AGM), and today Middlo has gone public saying he wants the three Aussies next year i.e. the Holders and Kurtz so that leaves 2 spots. Hans, whilst not pulling up any trees is pretty much Poole through and through and is still a useful second string so he must be a contender and if he is that leaves just one. And that one last spot could be Matt's master stroke he often pulls out the bag! Eddie Kennett or Timo Lahti? :rofl: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4gillian Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Eddie Kennett or Timo Lahti? :rofl: Well except those two of course! However, Lahti did come good towards the end of the season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblueboy Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Eddie Kennett or Timo Lahti? :rofl: These were the engine room for the Pirates. To put it in to a footballing context I would liken these two to Geoff Thomas and Carlton Palmer.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Well except those two of course! However, Lahti did come good towards the end of the season Sort of,he was too good in the play offs! These were the engine room for the Pirates. To put it in to a footballing context I would liken these two to Geoff Thomas and Carlton Palmer.... Trouble is the engine kept misfiring! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrotron Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Ellis won't be back (he wants to stay at Swindon), other than that you could be pretty much spot on there fella Matt F has already stated that Woryna and Shanes will be in (barring anything significant at the AGM), and today Middlo has gone public saying he wants the three Aussies next year i.e. the Holders and Kurtz so that leaves 2 spots. Hans, whilst not pulling up any trees is pretty much Poole through and through and is still a useful second string so he must be a contender and if he is that leaves just one. And that one last spot could be Matt's master stroke he often pulls out the bag! Ellis won't be back (he wants to stay at Swindon), other than that you could be pretty much spot on there fella Matt F has already stated that Woryna and Shanes will be in (barring anything significant at the AGM), and today Middlo has gone public saying he wants the three Aussies next year i.e. the Holders and Kurtz so that leaves 2 spots. Hans, whilst not pulling up any trees is pretty much Poole through and through and is still a useful second string so he must be a contender and if he is that leaves just one. And that one last spot could be Matt's master stroke he often pulls out the bag! Oh goodie who listens to Middlo anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVEHOLS54 Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Incredible isn't it that the Swedes will probably have their teams complete as will the Poles no doubt before the BSPA have their annual meeting when is it ??. I hear around 18th Nov in Tenerife ??? All this talk of lots of the top riders maybe coming to UK. No chance imo. For example Rospiggana have signed their seven with R.Lambert being the latest after his 2017 team said they didn't want him for next year. Don't see much evidence of these Swedish financial problems that have been mentioned but no doubt there are some. You can see though these guys don't mess around. They get on and sort it out while the likes of the BSPA will be sunning their ar**s in Tenerife trying to sort out how our 4th class league (after Pol EXL/Nice 1/Swe) drives forward). Also the likes of NKI already sorted his new POL team (Torun) and Swe team which means if the rules as per this year, what will he choose DK (as per this year) or UK. He wont be able to choose both assuming the Poles keep same rules in place for POL EXL riders. I for one will not be surprised if both Holders are in the team for 2018. Also from cost perspective will be cheaper than some of the other top riders taking into a/c heavy travel expenses etc. Plus the normal will/wont these other top riders turn up if they give other POL individual meetings priority as well as GP/SEC. I expect maybe more of the same as this year with a lack of top/top riders except MAYBE the likes of Doyle and a few others at best and even he may depend on if we go to fixed race nights. That's on top of the last month plus of the season of teams full of guests and RR due to injuries etc. Only UK could produce such crazy situations due to no squad system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me wolfie Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 If the polish rules are the same the only other league nki will be able to ride in aswell as poland and sweden is his home country so i guess he has already made his choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poolebolton Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Incredible isn't it that the Swedes will probably have their teams complete as will the Poles no doubt before the BSPA have their annual meeting when is it ??. I hear around 18th Nov in Tenerife ??? All this talk of lots of the top riders maybe coming to UK. No chance imo. For example Rospiggana have signed their seven with R.Lambert being the latest after his 2017 team said they didn't want him for next year. Don't see much evidence of these Swedish financial problems that have been mentioned but no doubt there are some. You can see though these guys don't mess around. They get on and sort it out while the likes of the BSPA will be sunning their ar**s in Tenerife trying to sort out how our 4th class league (after Pol EXL/Nice 1/Swe) drives forward). Also the likes of NKI already sorted his new POL team (Torun) and Swe team which means if the rules as per this year, what will he choose DK (as per this year) or UK. He wont be able to choose both assuming the Poles keep same rules in place for POL EXL riders. I for one will not be surprised if both Holders are in the team for 2018. Also from cost perspective will be cheaper than some of the other top riders taking into a/c heavy travel expenses etc. Plus the normal will/wont these other top riders turn up if they give other POL individual meetings priority as well as GP/SEC. I expect maybe more of the same as this year with a lack of top/top riders except MAYBE the likes of Doyle and a few others at best and even he may depend on if we go to fixed race nights. That's on top of the last month plus of the season of teams full of guests and RR due to injuries etc. Only UK could produce such crazy situations due to no squad system. Very good post. But it all starts with our league's going on for too long. Why the hell are we racing now in the UK its Wet and Cold and races just get postponed all the time. If we finish say but the 10th of October then had the AGM we would be fine. But no we have to wait around for months. There is only about 10 spaces left in Sweden and about 7 in Poland left to fill. We dont even know what leagues we will have yet. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVEHOLS54 Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 If the polish rules are the same the only other league nki will be able to ride in aswell as poland and sweden is his home country so i guess he has already made his choice Sorry Wolfie Yes you are right. The current POL rule will only allow his own league as 3rd choice. Indeed his mind is made up probably. Bet the KL fans will not be happy bunnies but as I have said before riders such as NKI and the HA's of this World are starting to reach twilight of their careers. Can you blame them for maximising income. I read on Polish site that NKI's contract for 2018 is worth in the region of GBP 250/265,000 for 2018 just in Poland alone. Maybe more if they make the playoffs/Gold medal. Add the second highest paying league Swedenon top (providing they do pay him say monthly) plus his own league makes the decision a no brainer. The Aussies and Poles can do Pol Exl /SWE/UK I believe. Its the POL Nice 1 where they can do more as experienced with globetrotting Hans Anderson (4 leagues). But I am sure certain promoters are not too unhappy as some don't want the superstars in our league anyway due to cost. Personally I want to see the top riders but suppose we have to accept we are at best joint third and probably more like 4th best of the leagues taking Pol EXL/Swe/Pol Nice 1 probably ahead of us. At least we don't drop to 5th as the Danes cant afford seven man teams ;-) Very good post. But it all starts with our league's going on for too long. Why the hell are we racing now in the UK its Wet and Cold and races just get postponed all the time. If we finish say but the 10th of October then had the AGM we would be fine. But no we have to wait around for months. There is only about 10 spaces left in Sweden and about 7 in Poland left to fill. We dont even know what leagues we will have yet. If people like you and me PB can see that then why cant the so called BSPA experts see it ????? We end up with people starting to get bored with it. No one wants to go when its cold and wet and when all the rest of Europe shut up shop a while ago (mainly). Add to that all the injuries and teams fielding plenty of guests and RR due to injuries etc it doesn't look great. I know the Poles have a lot more money than UK but they still only have a regular season of 14 matches plus max 4 for playoffs. They seem to have plenty of individual and teams tournaments in pairs/fours/ind championships. The Poles only really need to add the Swedish league as evidenced now by so much of their top talent. The odd ones add in DK as on a Wed night it is so easy now to go from Swe Tuesday and drive to DK Wed without having to also base equip there. Even though the Danes may not be the highest payers for the Poles that do go there its not a bad geographical run - Pol Sun - recover Monday - Swe Tue and then drive to DK for Wed. Gives plenty of time to recover for Sundays main league again without constant flights to fly in all over UK for less Money - plus more equip being based here. I will never understand how Hans And has done it for so long (4 leagues) but then again POL Nice 1 doesn't pay the megabucks as does POL EXL I suppose. Plus Hans now needs to maximise what earning potential he does have as he wont be around one assumes in 10 years so indeed the Speedway riders career is not a long one. Unless you are Superman Greg Hancock that is ;-) To me if its 42 points the Holders make sense (as they reside locally to Poole during the season) its just whether Matt Ford wants someone with more potential scoring power to replace HA if he can find such a rider with the points left available. The options are falling away although Vaculik and Milik could be possibilities as they are not Poles but its a case of IF they would give up their home leagues which are small fry. But would they find UK too much to squeeze if with their other Continental commitments being possibly SGP/SEC plus all the individual comp and various qualifiers around Europe. A lot of me says no they won't want the hassle of UK. Unless of course Matt Ford offers a killer deal financially where they can't afford to say no but I doubt it. But with Matt Ford anything may be possible with the right sponsor backing ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray c Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 I think matt ford has stopped paying mega buck's we also must remember he is also a member of the bspa in which all we hear is that they are not fit for purpose? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poolebolton Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 I think matt ford has stopped paying mega buck's we also must remember he is also a member of the bspa in which all we hear is that they are not fit for purpose? Yet, he offered the biggest contract in the history of British speedway to Magic J halfway through the season. From what i heard in the region of 8K a meeting. Yet Sparta Wroclaw wanted about million if he got injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVEHOLS54 Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 I think matt ford has stopped paying mega buck's we also must remember he is also a member of the bspa in which all we hear is that they are not fit for purpose? Being a promoter/owner of course he is in the BSPA. But I also heard he doesn't normally attend but his co promoter (also an SCB member) attends. Matt has not seen eye to eye with a number of the BSPA members for some time is what I heard. He is a visionary who has always wanted to push the sport forward. Because he runs one of the more financially sound clubs with success and with in the past good sponsors a lot of his views on the way forward have been voted down by the numerous have not's. I think he decided not to attend the meetings as a lot is already decided prior to the AGM and I assume a lot of the progressive elements he supports have not been supported by those who have differing opinions in not being financially viable enough to support overseas top stars or to go for squad systems - higher points limits etc. I assume he gave up a long time ago in banging his head against a wall so he lets his co promoter attend but no doubt has a hot line to any contentious last minute wheeling & dealing any of the have not's may want to throw in to try and dumb down the British league further :-( 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) As always there are at least two ways of looking at things. What you call Ford's "progressive" ideas may well have been seen by some of the others as likely to put many clubs out of business and as being disastrous for the sport. If the sport is to prosper it has now to live within its means. Progressive ideas are those which enable that to happen whilst rebuilding with an end goal of increasing the fan base and as more clubs are on a sound financial footing, enticing the top riders back and maybe even having squads. Many know that there is too much self interest amongst promoters and that it has resulted in many of the problems we now have. What we need are promoters who can see the wider picture and have the good of the sport at heart, not just the good of their club. I am not optimistic but as the crisis deepens it is more likely that enough members of the BSPA will see that action for the overall good of the sport can be the same thing as the action that is best for their own self interest. Edited October 19, 2017 by Aces51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVEHOLS54 Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 As always there are at least two ways of looking at things. What you call Ford's "progressive" ideas may well have been seen by some of the others as likely to put many clubs out of business and as being disastrous for the sport. If the sport is to prosper it has now to live within its means. Progressive ideas are those which enable that to happen whilst rebuilding with an end goal of increasing the fan base and as more clubs are on a sound financial footing, enticing the top riders back and maybe even having squads. Many know that there is too much self interest amongst promoters and that it has resulted in many of the problems we now have. What we need are promoters who can see the wider picture and have the good of the sport at heart, not just the good of their club. I am not optimistic but as the crisis deepens it is more likely that enough members of the BSPA will see that action for the overall good of the sport can be the same thing as the action that is best for their own self interest. I don't disagree with you. BUT - Matt Ford is one of the few who has tried to put ideas forward for the good of the sport and not just his own club. Its not his fault that he took over Poole and turned them into the most successful side of the last 10/15 years. it took a lot of hard work finding good sponsors and getting together good squads which in turn led to multiple league wins. Of course not all clubs have been run as well or as professionally as Poole and some cannot afford the asset base and star riders Poole have had. That is down to his progressive attitude and whilst yeas it was for the betterment of his club why should Speedway be any different to say football. Many sports have the richer clubs and not so rich. Clubs that have different levels of success based on what they can afford and what they cant. Unfortunately Speedway will never have a level playing field but that should not stop good racing. That should also not stop progressive and forward thinking promoters like him having input into how they feel the sport should be run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbee Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Yet, he offered the biggest contract in the history of British speedway to Magic J halfway through the season. From what i heard in the region of 8K a meeting. Yet Sparta Wroclaw wanted about million if he got injured. you dreaming again 8k a meeting that's not viable even for Ford 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poolebolton Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 you dreaming again 8k a meeting that's not viable even for Ford Well dont believe it. But thats what they offered. He was offering that simply because one of the big sponsors was going to help . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray c Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 middleditch wants holder to spearhead our attack next season does that mean brady will start next season as our no 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCOGNITO Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 2018 threads really are a waste of time until it's clear what happens at the AGM and what restrictions Poland have in place over riders but to start one in July is crazy. Kacper Woryna signed or next season which is a good move and on a low average, wouldn't be surprised to see Kyke Newman and James Shanes back but the rest is pure speculation at the moment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4gillian Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 2018 threads really are a waste of time until it's clear what happens at the AGM and what restrictions Poland have in place over riders but to start one in July is crazy. Kacper Woryna signed or next season which is a good move and on a low average, wouldn't be surprised to see Kyke Newman and James Shanes back but the rest is pure speculation at the moment. Whilst we all know Middlo often speaks before engaging his brain, he has gone public saying he wants the three Aussies with us next season and he wouldn't have done that without good reason. Matt and Middlo will have talked about next year at length already so has he made this public for a reason? I'm sure he wouldn't do it if he knew this was way off Matts thoughts for 2018. So, speculation? You decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poolebolton Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 Whilst we all know Middlo often speaks before engaging his brain, he has gone public saying he wants the three Aussies with us next season and he wouldn't have done that without good reason. Matt and Middlo will have talked about next year at length already so has he made this public for a reason? I'm sure he wouldn't do it if he knew this was way off Matts thoughts for 2018. So, speculation? You decide. Its a fair statement. If the points limit does remain 42. From what has been said we now know 5 riders for definite with the 3 aussies, Shanes and Woryna. Be interesting to see what you add to that. Kurtz and Big Holder is a no brainer. Jack is good but is getting way ahead of himself and is a bit big headed but his brother might calm him down. I think both Holder's will want to be together and also Chris looks like he is struggling for a Extraliga place. Torun have dropped him from the sound's of things. And Lejonen don't seem to want to give him a spot. Those 5 give you 13.34 points left to play with. I think these four are our British asset. Ellis =5.56 Wright=6.69 Perks= 4.00 Newman= 4.86 I doubt it will be Perks You could have Wright and Kacper G. Would be very solid and would score points everywhere. Just hoping that Kacper/J.Holder could step up to number 3. Kacper should be able to, is a number 5 in Nice League 1. Unless Ellis is brought back with Hans. Think Hans could still fill the 3rd Heat Leader role. Is a good captain and leader and knows British Speedway. But he is getting up there in age. Unless anyone else can think of someone who could be up to 7.78. I do find it a bit crazy that Vaculik hasnt got a Sweden spot yet. 1.Kurtz=8.08 2. Holder= 5.82 3. 4. 5.Holder=7.16 6.Woryna=4.65 7. Shanes=2.95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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