ouch Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 The fact there is no rule now makes sense. Zagar tweeted he wanted to return and shortly after, this 9 point rule surfaced. Zagar (and Belle Vue) was informed of his inflated average, thus ending his proposed route back to the UK. Rival promoters started discussing the “rule” with fans to lend weight to its existence. Both at the time and subsequently I’ve been at a loss why Woffinden and the Pole were mentioned as being ruled out due to this reassessment when neither were ever coming back. Like I said as the top it now makes sense. An elaborate ruse to stop us including Zagar but a ruse never the less. Leason learned for us to check the paperwork next time rather than take things at face value. What has this “sport” finally come too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 3 hours ago, Gordon Pairman said: I used the phrase “in most instances” because BSPA Management Committee have the final say on averages for individual rider averages - think Andreas Jonsson when he returned to Lakeside on a lower average as his historic CMA was thought to be too high. I am not aware where the suggestion that there was a “9 point rule” came from and have never seen anything in writing saying it had been agreed. Every post you make just makes the situation worse. Yet again it's a case of who is asking... and more likely, what are you paying. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Gordon Pairman said: The thing is, there is no rule so nothing to announce. The BSPA office keeps the list of historic averages although some promoters also keep a list. As these are changeable due to the MC’s power, a team will ask the office for a definitive average before finalising any signing. Lebedevs is a good case to look at - my recollection is he didn’t fare too well at KL so potentially could come back on an unrealistically low average. It would be up to the MC at the time how to assess him now. On a slightly different point, I have often wondered if it would be better, in our average driven leagues, whether or not, for team building, averages were rounded up or down to the nearest 0.5. That way, there would no longer be the chase for the last decimal point in team building. And again, who is asking. As for the nearest 0.5, absolutely awful idea. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) To play devil's advocate and take what Mr Pairman says at face value.. Could the Wolves and Belle Vue promotions have used/created the re-assessment of GP riders as an excuse for not signing the riders when in reality they simply couldn't afford them? Wolves insane signing of Thorssell rather than Lindgren adds credence to that thought process. Either way, the fact still remains, it is the utter lack of transparency that causes these issues. Soon after the end of the season a list of all riders should be published and their starting averages if used the following year. Edited March 24, 2018 by BWitcher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 hour ago, poolebolton said: It’s on there instagrams! They seemed to be having a good time. Yeh they maybe having a good time, if that was the case, but you really shouldnt be putting that on here if you have no proof of what you said, just be a bit careful, remember, this is an open forum. Some things are best left behind closed doors mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 50 minutes ago, ray c said: If you are referring to starman you are out of order Thanks Ray, dont worry about it, i have broad shoulders, i have had to have, and still do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therefused Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, Starman2006 said: Yeh they maybe having a good time, if that was the case, but you really shouldnt be putting that on here if you have no proof of what you said, just be a bit careful, remember, this is an open forum. Some things are best left behind closed doors mate. If they wanted it left behind closed doors they wouldnt have put it on social media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, therefused said: If they wanted it left behind closed doors they wouldnt have put it on social media. Granted, but Poolebolton shouldnt say what he said without catorgoric proof. As i said, this is an open forum, and you just dont know who's looking in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Gordon Pairman said: The thing is, there is no rule so nothing to announce. The BSPA office keeps the list of historic averages although some promoters also keep a list. As these are changeable due to the MC’s power, a team will ask the office for a definitive average before finalising any signing. Lebedevs is a good case to look at - my recollection is he didn’t fare too well at KL so potentially could come back on an unrealistically low average. It would be up to the MC at the time how to assess him now. On a slightly different point, I have often wondered if it would be better, in our average driven leagues, whether or not, for team building, averages were rounded up or down to the nearest 0.5. That way, there would no longer be the chase for the last decimal point in team building. A very good post Gordon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poolebolton Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Starman2006 said: Granted, but Poolebolton shouldnt say what he said without catorgoric proof. As i said, this is an open forum, and you just dont know who's looking in. Chris Holder has 38K followers on Instagram who can see that. You could type his name into Instagram now and watch it and Jack Holder. Jack Holder streamed the whole of Torun after party last season and that was a pretty drunk night. I don't think people are that bothered otherwise he wouldnt put it up. Just think 38K people on Instagram is more than this forum. Edited March 24, 2018 by poolebolton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, poolebolton said: Chris Holder has 38K followers on Instagram who can see that. You could type his name into Instagram now and watch it and Jack Holder. Jack Holder streamed the whole of Torun after party last season and that was a pretty drunk night. I don't think people are that bothered otherwise he wouldnt put it up. Just think 38K people on Instagram is more than this forum. Granted mate, and i know all about instagram, but you really shouldnt be making accusations like in your post without catagoric proof, even then, you shouldnt really put it on here mate.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poolebolton Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 Just now, Starman2006 said: Granted mate, and i know all about instagram, but you really shouldnt be making accusations like in your post without catagoric proof, even then, you shouldnt really put it on here mate.. It’s a forum. You discuss stuff on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirates Of Poole Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 So if Holder is out longer we could have more options? Piotr, Zagar or Tai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Gordon Pairman said: I can’t tell you who was told what by whom. You need to ask each team’s promoters. I do know that one of the teams you mention was trying to sign one of the riders you mention and they believed that the rider would return on his historic average. The stumbling block would appear to have been financial rather than numerical. I'm quoting only the words of CVS and Adams. Promoters who would appear switched on to the rules. Woffy was confirmed as one of the riders targeted for 2018 and was 'interested'. Money no doubt would have been an issue, the biggest issue being he was saddled with a 9 point average. 57 minutes ago, ouch said: Rival promoters started discussing the “rule” with fans to lend weight to its existence. Both at the time and subsequently I’ve been at a loss why Woffinden and the Pole were mentioned as being ruled out due to this reassessment when neither were ever coming back. Complete nonsense, the fact you keep mentioning this as gospel proves your knowledge is lacking. Piotr was as good as confirmed by Poole until the 9 point 'rule', Woffy was mentioned in November by CVS and again confirmed as 'interested' at this week's talk in at Wolves. Zagar was as every bit likely or less likely as the other 2 going on your own opinion. Someone has a 'let's penalise only Belle Vue' complex that is way far from the truth. Those in power have tried to stop Wolves since we won the league in 2016, firstly the 2017 ruling on deadline date change to stop riders signing for the play offs as a direct response to Woffy coming back in 2016 and low and behold Wolves have 2 class riders on a low 7 that suddenly get saddled with a 9. It's easy to figure who they are trying to halt. Definitely not Belle Vue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, Pirates Of Poole said: So if Holder is out longer we could have more options? Piotr, Zagar or Tai. It would appear only Poole can sign riders on their old averages so yes its possible only for one club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 hour ago, ouch said: The fact there is no rule now makes sense. Zagar tweeted he wanted to return and shortly after, this 9 point rule surfaced. Zagar (and Belle Vue) was informed of his inflated average, thus ending his proposed route back to the UK. Rival promoters started discussing the “rule” with fans to lend weight to its existence. Both at the time and subsequently I’ve been at a loss why Woffinden and the Pole were mentioned as being ruled out due to this reassessment when neither were ever coming back. Like I said as the top it now makes sense. An elaborate ruse to stop us including Zagar but a ruse never the less. Leason learned for us to check the paperwork next time rather than take things at face value. What has this “sport” finally come too? So, allegedly Zagar wanted too much, BV allegedly said no, and allegedly a line was invented that his alleged average was too high. Or is that too easy? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 hour ago, BWitcher said: To play devil's advocate and take what Mr Pairman says at face value.. Could the Wolves and Belle Vue promotions have used/created the re-assessment of GP riders as an excuse for not signing the riders when in reality they simply couldn't afford them? Wolves insane signing of Thorssell rather than Lindgren adds credence to that thought process. Either way, the fact still remains, it is the utter lack of transparency that causes these issues. Soon after the end of the season a list of all riders should be published and their starting averages if used the following year. Think you might have hit the nail smack on the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 2 hours ago, MattK said: Matej Zagar claims he has been re-assessed to a 9: http://www.speedwaygp.com/news/article/6430/zagars-british-blow Are you suggesting he is wrong and could have been signed on his 2016 average of 7.48? Depends who was asking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 If a story is repeated often enough some believe it to be true. The downside is when the rider gets an offer from another club and his real average is revealed, it shows someone has told a few porkies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 hour ago, BWitcher said: To play devil's advocate and take what Mr Pairman says at face value.. Could the Wolves and Belle Vue promotions have used/created the re-assessment of GP riders as an excuse for not signing the riders when in reality they simply couldn't afford them? Wolves insane signing of Thorssell rather than Lindgren adds credence to that thought process. Either way, the fact still remains, it is the utter lack of transparency that causes these issues. Soon after the end of the season a list of all riders should be published and their starting averages if used the following year. Smoke and Mirrors springs to mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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