Gavan Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, BurntFaceMan said: But you've been saying the entire time that Morris was the better rider in the UK, not that he was the higher averaged rider in the UK. Kurtz is the better rider, but Nick scored better on average last season. ???? so Kurtz in the UK is better than Morris yet Morris averaged almost a point more!!! please come on get real.....you may think Kurtz is better rider which is a valid opinion.........................but last year in the uk Morris was better. Your making zero sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, BurntFaceMan said: But you've been saying the entire time that Morris was the better rider in the UK, not that he was the higher averaged rider in the UK. Kurtz is the better rider, but Nick scored better on average last season. Morris was the better rider in the UK last season. There isn't even an argument to say he wasn't. When you delve a little the difference was even bigger. Kurtz Home Average 8.36 8.80 (with bp) Away Average 7.58 8.00 (with bp) Morris Home Average 8.94 (9.50 with bp) Away Average 8.61 (9.33 with bp) Morris is convincingly better than Kurtz on away tracks where he posted an average only slightly below his home one. Another significant factor is Kurtz's figures are inflated from riding 11 home meetings to only 8 away. Morris on the other hand has 13 home meetings and 14 away. Reality is the gap is bigger than the on paper figures show. Edited January 15, 2018 by BWitcher 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunRobin Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 25 minutes ago, BurntFaceMan said: But you've been saying the entire time that Morris was the better rider in the UK, not that he was the higher averaged rider in the UK. Kurtz is the better rider, but Nick scored better on average last season. And when meeting Kurtz in heats last season, consistently beat him. Not conjecture - fact! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurntFaceMan Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Morris was the better rider in the UK last season. There isn't even an argument to say he wasn't. Of course there is. Achieving a higher GSA doesn't mean he was the better rider, it just means he achieved a higher GSA. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, BurntFaceMan said: Of course there is. Achieving a higher GSA doesn't mean he was the better rider, it just means he achieved a higher GSA. are you trolling or just simply not that intelligent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, BurntFaceMan said: Of course there is. Achieving a higher GSA doesn't mean he was the better rider, it just means he achieved a higher GSA. Do explain how he managed to achieve a higher GSA? Next you'll be suggesting Jason Doyle isn't World Champion. Just because he scored more GP pts doesn't make him better! Let's do away with 3pts for winning a race.. just because you won the race doesn't make you better in that race.. Edited January 15, 2018 by BWitcher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 Are you numptys still arguing about the same thing lol.....don't you ever get bored. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Baldyman said: Are you numptys still arguing about the same thing lol.....don't you ever get bored. When I get bored I'll go post on something I have absolutely no interest in. Folk discussing speedway on a speedway forum. Who'd have thought it. Edited January 15, 2018 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray c Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 19 minutes ago, Baldyman said: Are you numptys still arguing about the same thing lol.....don't you ever get bored. I am total rubbish !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 17 minutes ago, ray c said: I am total rubbish !!! You ain't total rubbish Ray., you are pretty decent., it's just some of the other Dweebles,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray c Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Baldyman said: You ain't total rubbish Ray., you are pretty decent., it's just some of the other Dweebles,,, Did not word that quite right did i im bored as well !!! Edited January 15, 2018 by ray c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, ray c said: Did not word that quite right di You didn't....but I knew what you meant....I was just taking advantage of the situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVEHOLS54 Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 53 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Morris was the better rider in the UK last season. There isn't even an argument to say he wasn't. When you delve a little the difference was even bigger. Kurtz Home Average 8.36 8.80 (with bp) Away Average 7.58 8.00 (with bp) Morris Home Average 8.94 (9.50 with bp) Away Average 8.61 (9.33 with bp) Morris is convincingly better than Kurtz on away tracks where he posted an average only slightly below his home one. Another significant factor is Kurtz's figures are inflated from riding 11 home meetings to only 8 away. Morris on the other hand has 13 home meetings and 14 away. Reality is the gap is bigger than the on paper figures show. I think further evidence that Morris was the better rider last season in UK. Certainly more consistent but then you would expect that with having ridden 5 seasons more than Kurtz in the Prem (or equiv). Interesting that both had a big jump in av last season which may be a combination of both improving and also because the Prem has been getting progressively weaker in respect of top stars returning. Last season for sure was and this season arguably even more. Morris improvement has been steadier with Kurtz probably more spectacular in GSA after only 2 seasons and Kurtz was only 21 in September. Personally I think it will be at least another 2 seasons before one can make real comparisons between the 2. Kurtz due to getting more experience and also riding against the Worlds top now in UK and also for the first time (in real terms) in both SWE Elite and POL EXL. Morris from the perspective of can he hold his big improvement last season compared to prev seasons (also now riding at number 1)and can he eventually push on in POL/SWE if signed. By POL I mean POL EXL. As far as UK there is no doubt that Morris was the better rider but we need those addl 2/3 seasons before we can really say as far as UK is concerned who is the better rider as that would have allowed Kurtz the catch up in experience in the Prem. Will be interesting to see how they both push on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 12 minutes ago, Baldyman said: You ain't total rubbish Ray., you are pretty decent., it's just some of the other Dweebles,,, Especially those who post on threads they have no interest in simply to abuse those that do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurntFaceMan Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gavan said: are you trolling or just simply not that intelligent? I think that's a question you need to be asking yourself. You said Morris was the better rider in the UK, and I said Kurtz was. What you meant to say is that Morris had a higher GSA. 1 hour ago, BWitcher said: Do explain how he managed to achieve a higher GSA? Next you'll be suggesting Jason Doyle isn't World Champion. Just because he scored more GP pts doesn't make him better! Let's do away with 3pts for winning a race.. just because you won the race doesn't make you better in that race.. Not at all. Jason Doyle is world champion. Fact. Jason Doyle scored more GP points than Patryk Dudek. Fact. Jason Doyle is a better rider than Patryk Dudek. Subjective, not fact. Just because you decided that a rider is better than another rider based purely on GSA, it does not become fact. Edited January 15, 2018 by BurntFaceMan Removing any ambiguity for simpler minds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 Spot on...Can't beat it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 11 minutes ago, BurntFaceMan said: I think that's a question you need to be asking yourself. You said Morris was the better rider in the UK, and I said Kurtz was. What you meant to say is that Morris had a higher GSA. Not at all. Jason Doyle is world champion. Fact. Jason Doyle scored more GP points than Patryk Dudek. Fact. Jason Doyle is a better rider than Patryk Dudek. Subjective, not fact. Just because you decided that a rider is better than another rider based purely on GSA, it does not become fact. Good point. You could say Leon Madsen is a better rider than Jason Doyle as he has a higher average than Doyle in the Polish Extraleague, and of course its raced over more heats to get the average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 13 minutes ago, BurntFaceMan said: I think that's a question you need to be asking yourself. You said Morris was the better rider in the UK, and I said Kurtz was. What you meant to say is that Morris had a higher GSA. Not at all. Jason Doyle is world champion. Fact. Jason Doyle scored more GP points than Patryk Dudek. Fact. Jason Doyle is a better rider than Patryk Dudek. Subjective, not fact. Just because you decided that a rider is better than another rider based purely on GSA, it does not become fact. Remind me how a GSA is achieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said: Good point. You could say Leon Madsen is a better rider than Jason Doyle as he has a higher average than Doyle in the Polish Extraleague, and of course its raced over more heats to get the average. If you said that you'd be incorrect. However, if you said Leon Madsen was better in the Polish Extraleague than Jason Doyle last season you would be correct. Just as Nick Morris was better than Brady Kurtz in the top flight in the UK last year. That is FACT no matter how much Burntfaceman tries to wriggle and squirm. Not only did he have a higher GSA, he spent the entire year riding in the No 5 spot and didn't have a spell riding as a second string and having easier rides as a result. Even putting all that to one side, in meetings between Poole and Swindon Kurtz and Morris lined up 9 times against each other: The results? Morris 7 Kurtz 2 Edited January 15, 2018 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 3 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said: OK. Compare their averages after two seasons. Morris at the end of his second season was 5.90. Kurtz at the same stage of his British career was 8.08. Now you argue that his average now is higher than Kurtz so he is the better rider, but there is much more to take into consideration. You can compare their averages over 2 seasons, Morris was still the better UK rider and had a higher average both times. There isn't anything else to consider. 2 hours ago, hrhbig said: Did not realise he rode for King Lynn in 2017 as number one , cant remember him scoring much Referring to 2018. 1 hour ago, Gavan said: are you trolling or just simply not that intelligent? I'm going with trolling. He actually said he was only posting to wind me and you up (and failed miserably). Only real explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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