STEVEHOLS54 Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 19 minutes ago, Skidder1 said: 12th August effective from 15th August. Hmmm Interesting. Don't suppose Poole could loan him to Somerset on basis he is not allowed to ride in the 3 Aug matches against his parent club (like in football ??). Also between 4th July and season end Somerset have about 16 league matches. They have about 12 from the 19th July meaning it could hit his GSA for next season if he did ride and Matt wanted him back with younger bro for 2019. They are after all both Poole assets. Of course there is still the small matter of his visa issues and on the subject of the thinking out loud on needing income to maybe pay towards his son. He should be doing that anyway irrespectice of where he rides and I am sure his lucrative POL/SWE deals generate plenty of income. I would like to think it is his main priority in life anyway besides his job. Just replying to your thinking out loud comment ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 38 minutes ago, Grachan said: I agree, Sidney. I think keeping the side together as much as possible can work wonders for team spirit and also crowd association. Sometimes changes can be made, but I think keeping them to a minimum and only where really necessary is the best way. I think you are right that the team will be build around those 3 next year. Do you think some people just like change everyyear? get to past Christmas the excitement of a new season coming they want fresh faces.For me why change for change sake the art is blooding in fresh blood when needed hopefully an improver and then fit them in the jigsaw.If we win nothing this year so what we have been competitive it would of given me anough pleasure seeing Adam/Zach developing and Nick and there is still more to come from him in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattfordfan Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said: But you have never quite grasped the fact that most people only expected James as a two pointer to score his average.If the rest of the team had been doing there jobs James would not even of been mentioned.Last year as the year went on James got better the simple fact is James was made the scapegoat but plenty have over the years.Loyalty patience it does work at Swindon we have Adam,David,Zach all riders that Rossiter believes in and they can be part of the future for years to come. Rosco is the perfect team manager for those riders. Alun knows what makes certain riders tick. Bellego and Wajtknecht wouldn't be the same riders under Middlo's management (My opinion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 41 minutes ago, STEVEHOLS54 said: All things being equal would happily build the side around Kurtz/C.Holder/J.Holder/Josh G and throw in a couple of promising young brits and a.n.other. Much as i want to win the league I also want to see a combination of exciting talent and promising youngsters. Young guys like Drew Kemp/Jordan Jenkins/Leon Flint/Kyle Bickley/Jason Edwards who are 15/16 and Jack P.Blackburn who has returned only 17. These are the guys who potentially excite me for the future. Give us some form of single league set up maybe with regions initially then knock outs and combine top guys/middle order and these youngsters maybe is a way forward ?? If the league can be structured where the likes of Jenkins,Kemp,Edwards,Brennan,Hume,Mountain,Wood,Blackburn,Flint, (etc ) are mixed in that could be the way to go.Most of those riders can double up ( I know fixture planning is a problem) so riding in the top division is more about experience than anything.Two examples here a Poole team next year Holder,Holderjnr) Kurtz,Woryna,Sundstrom,Jenkins,Brennan. Swindon. Morris,Ellis,Batch,Musielak Zach, Kemp, Hume both exciting line ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, Matt Ford Fan said: Rosco is the perfect team manager for those riders. Alun knows what makes certain riders tick. Bellego and Wajtknecht wouldn't be the same riders under Middlo's management (My opinion) Total rubbish Middleditch his record speaks for itself people who i know in speedway ( who i respect) all say what an excellent man/manager Middlo is he backs his riders to the hilt in bad times also he is a great human being .How much input does Neil have? does he take the brunt when Poole fail? does Ford call all the shots ? the riders in that team this year have to take responsibility Middleditch cannot be blamed for everything. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, Matt Ford Fan said: Rosco is the perfect team manager for those riders. Alun knows what makes certain riders tick. Bellego and Wajtknecht wouldn't be the same riders under Middlo's management (My opinion) You change from day/day you gave it large before the season started saying Poole would p... the league you put your head on the chopping block but when you got it wrong you cannot take the flak.Who i feel for are the real Poole posters on here we all know who they are who are real people and have a balanced opinion.It is a funny thing to say but i want Poole to turn it around they are good for the league i want the sport to prosper as a whole and for it to get stronger. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 27 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said: Do you think some people just like change everyyear? get to past Christmas the excitement of a new season coming they want fresh faces.For me why change for change sake the art is blooding in fresh blood when needed hopefully an improver and then fit them in the jigsaw.If we win nothing this year so what we have been competitive it would of given me anough pleasure seeing Adam/Zach developing and Nick and there is still more to come from him in the future. I think that, because of the low points limits over the past few years, the key to success has often been that of making a clever change mid-season when averages come into effect. Either replacing a rider whose average has gone up with a rider of better ability but on a lower average, or if the team average drops, bringing someone in to make up the numbers. Because of this, there has become a bit of an obsession among fans with making changes, as it is seen as the key to success. You see it everywhere now - one bad result, or one bad meeting from a rider, and people are immediately calling for changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 hour ago, STEVEHOLS54 said: All things being equal would happily build the side around Kurtz/C.Holder/J.Holder/Josh G and throw in a couple of promising young brits and a.n.other. Much as i want to win the league I also want to see a combination of exciting talent and promising youngsters. Young guys like Drew Kemp/Jordan Jenkins/Leon Flint/Kyle Bickley/Jason Edwards who are 15/16 and Jack P.Blackburn who has returned only 17. These are the guys who potentially excite me for the future. Give us some form of single league set up maybe with regions initially then knock outs and combine top guys/middle order and these youngsters maybe is a way forward ?? It would be the worst thing for any young Brit to sign for Poole. They have an atrocious track record with discarding them. there are some very exciting young kids coming thru and it’s a pleasure to watch their development. Hopefully they will choose very wisely when selecting who to sign for. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 hour ago, STEVEHOLS54 said: Let's take advantage of it Most of the rest was just waffle in reality - the section I left shows the only bit really important to you..... and sums up a significant proportion of the Poole mentality 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, stevebrum said: It would be the worst thing for any young Brit to sign for Poole. They have an atrocious track record with discarding them. there are some very exciting young kids coming thru and it’s a pleasure to watch their development. Hopefully they will choose very wisely when selecting who to sign for. Your side Wolves Steve have done for years what Swindon have in place now continuity using a same pool of riders and getting the benefit.Thorssell a brilliant example now with PK,Freddie being awesome servants over the years how many clubs would of retained the young Greaves this year not many chuffed that he is making progress this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattfordfan Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said: Total rubbish Middleditch his record speaks for itself people who i know in speedway ( who i respect) all say what an excellent man/manager Middlo is he backs his riders to the hilt in bad times also he is a great human being .How much input does Neil have? does he take the brunt when Poole fail? does Ford call all the shots ? the riders in that team this year have to take responsibility Middleditch cannot be blamed for everything. I'm not blaming Middlo for everything. Just saying those 2 riders wouldn't be the same under Middlo's management. Even when I pay a compliment to someone I get come backs on it lol. Going back to straight talking facts now. The record is when Poole had everything on a plate. We had the GP stars and it made Middlo's job so much easier. Just like it would make any other manager's job easier. When you can send out a Darcy & Chris partnership or a Janowski & Pawlicki partnership for example then you can't go wrong. Those times are gone....For every club. Now Middlo has to get the best out of riders who are nowhere near that level.....and he cant do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattfordfan Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 24 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said: You change from day/day you gave it large before the season started saying Poole would p... the league you put your head on the chopping block but when you got it wrong you cannot take the flak.Who i feel for are the real Poole posters on here we all know who they are who are real people and have a balanced opinion.It is a funny thing to say but i want Poole to turn it around they are good for the league i want the sport to prosper as a whole and for it to get stronger. Now you're being silly. I can take the flack.......No problem. I'm a straight talker if you don't like it then it's best to put me on ignore because I can provide evidence to back up my claims just like last night with the Shanes debate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Matt Ford Fan said: Now you're being silly. I can take the flack.......No problem. I'm a straight talker if you don't like it then it's best to put me on ignore because I can provide evidence to back up my claims just like last night with the Shanes debate. Why would i put you on ignore? your opinion is valid you are entitled to it but you are not consistent Poole have had a great run success wise over a long period.Middleditch did not win all those trophie's by luck and by the way handling big stars keeping everyone happy is not easy.As for the Shanes debate you are totally WRONG would a team in trouble believe replacing a two pointer would be the end of there troubles just be truthful Shanes was shafted how is MS still there?.Even with Nielsen in the team the problems were still there replacing Shanes did not make a lot of difference do you think James scoring 4 rather than 2 was the difference I don't. Edited May 30, 2018 by Sidney the robin 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunRobin Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 16 hours ago, lisa-colette said: Yep, for once he makes a decent point. It is what I thought at the time but because its MFF it's ridiculed. Also I'm surprised Starman hasn't been on and told Adam's Dad to get back on the Swindon thread! All threads are open to everybody, as you well know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattfordfan Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said: Why would i put you on ignore? your opinion is valid you are entitled to it but you are not consistent Poole have had a great run success wise over a long period.Middleditch did not not win all those trophie's by luck and by the way handling big stars keeping everyone happy is not easy.As for the Shanes debate you are totally WRONG would a team in trouble believe replacing a two pointer would be the end of there troubles just be truthful Shanes was shafted how is MS still there?.Even with Nielsen in the team the problems were still there replacing Shanes did not make a lot of difference do you think James scoring 4 rather than 2 was the difference I don't. I know but when you look at the teams Poole had when they won those league titles it's completely different to now. Look at Man City for example they've won a couple of premiership titles because they had the team......But before the money was invested in them they were only in the Premiership to make the numbers up. Steve McLaren could manage Bayern Munich and they would still walk the Bundesliga.....Because they have the team.....But the fact is McLaren is not a good manager. So my point is that Middlo might not be as good as people think he is. I'm not saying he's a poor manager because he isn't. People say look at Middlo's record but when you look at the teams we had those year's as well. It makes Middlo's job a lot easier to do. For example the last 4 league titles. 2011 - Holder & Ward were in the team. 2013 - Ward, Hancock, Holder, Pawlicki 2014 - Ward, Holder, Janowski, Pawlicki, Milik 2015 - Janowski & Holder as a top two. Its different times now......Middlo's skills are being put to the test now. Just like every other manager in the league. Poole have not got the best out of riders in the last few years. We are not talking about 1 or 2 riders we are talking about quite a few riders. So you have to look at the bigger picture and think why is this happening. Who is to blame for consistent underperforming riders. Just like any other sport you have to look at the manager. Then you look at Swindon and how well Rosco does with the resources he has and how well he does with his riders. Middlo has done well when he had the teams consisting of riders above. I'm spot on regarding Shanes.........Stand by everything I said on that debate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVEHOLS54 Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 hour ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: Most of the rest was just waffle in reality - the section I left shows the only bit really important to you..... and sums up a significant proportion of the Poole mentality Interesting that when you try to engage in sensible dialogue on your own teams forum you get the inevitable troll or idiot who comes in from outside with something stupid or idiotic. Today it seems we have another poster who is not a regular - from ipswich it seems (sounds familiar to someone who has recently gone quiet or is serving a ban maybe from the same area???). Not only that but our friend DC2 could not resist a laughing to the above reply. No wonder sensible posters such as Poole Bolton has had his fill of some of the crap that flies around on the Poole Forum from those with no interest in the club other than sniping or taking the pee out of anything constructive - contributory to a discussion or otherwise. Dont blame him for stepping out of the forum as he is probably fed up with it. Or to coin what dontwhatf says "waffle". Nowhere in my qte did I say so lets take advantage of it, but YES just like any other Prem side his GSA is there for any club to sign him. Whether it be his current GSA or a reduced it still on face value a good GSA for such a POTENTIALLY good rider. Nothing is guaranteed as can be seen with what happened with Sundstrom/Woryna/Spaniak as POL form can be misleading. I am happy to indulge in sensible online exchanges with anyone if its sensible, and i can take criticism if its constructive or contributes to the discussion/forum. As for the idiot come backs. Please forgive me if i don't indulge those who get a kick out of winding people up or just antagonising them. At least I would say with Gavan a lot of what he says makes a lot of sense and even though some of the Poole die hards find it hard to take. His comments on reservations about the Poles on UK tracks - turned out to be correct so far. His comments re Brady v Morris are again spot on. In fairness he made those comments clearly in ref to comparing them in UK Speedway to date and not on the World stage where Brady may one day prove to be the better rider. Also maybe in UK long term but at this stage Morris is the better proven heat leader but he also has greater experience and the AV do not lie either last season or this where both are now riding as number 1. I will take Gavan on most days as he has constructive input. Just needs to tolerate some of the come back a bit better, as he should know that as an Ipswich supporter on a Poole Forum that most things not pro Poole will always generate a reaction. At least he talks with knowledge and his insight as to what may happen has in the main happened with the risks Matt took in bringing in riders who had been out of UK some time i.e: Spaniak/Woryna/Sundstrom even if on paper they looked decent signings. If he is on a temp ban after last weeks meltdown I welcome his constructive views when he is back. Anyway don't want to keep waffling as it might upset certain visiting posters who have not interest in our team other than having a pop for the sake of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, STEVEHOLS54 said: Keeping the NL of course sas it is now starting to throw up some exciting young talent. Some of what the likes of Drew Kemp are showing at 15 not even Dan Bewley was arguably doing at the same age. Similar maybe with the likes of Leon Flint.Maybe in our own small way this is our micro version of what the Poles are doing with their juniors. OK we a re nowhere near them in overall class but then we dont have the money/crowds/stadium (other than the NSS) or sponsorship. BUT we have to start somewhere and these young kids seem to be suddenly coming along in numbers. Let's take advantage of it combining youth and talent (in our own way) like the Poles do. Even if it is a case of small steps. You most certainly did say lets take advantage I have quoted in full this time to show so In summary you are happy to mix in the Brits if Poole get a Flint or a Kemp. Im sure if they are destined elsewhere you will not have such a keen interest in their development as it would not be to Pooles advantage Edited May 30, 2018 by dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badge Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 Take offense Poole fans if you like, but here's another Ipswich fan with an opinion From the outside looking in, so to speak, Poole have been most successful because they were, notice were, able to bring in successful riders to their teams, trick, loram, ward, holder, all riders who cut their speedway teeth at other clubs before Poole came calling. Just using shanes as an example, they never stick with anyone who they "feel" isn't cutting the mustard. British boys have no future at Poole because they aren't allowed to progress naturally, which is such a shame, because they seem to like Aussies better I could say more but won't 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVEHOLS54 Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: You most certainly did say lets take advantage I have quoted in full this time to show so Yes but that is in respect of the young Brits coming through and nothing to do with Milik. 4 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: Let's take advantage of it combining youth and talent (in our own way) like the Poles do. Even if it is a case of small steps. My comments were about mixing this obvious talent coming through together with some of the existing talent such as mixing say a Kemp/Jenkins/Flint (say 2 per team) and putting it with other established young riders (such as Kurtz/Holder Jr) and also adding experience such as say Holder Sr and Josh G etc. That way we are taking advantage of presenting all that is good in Speedway - Up and coming new talent only say the 16/17/18 year olds - Exciting existing young talent - Experienced riders like the Holders/Josh G's/Klindt's. Name who you like just taking examples. Mix these young raw talents with the bigger guys so they race against similar talent and more experienced in the same race. It's just idea's going forward. The way you put the comment over was as if you were insinuating I was trying to get Milik on a low GSA just to fiddle around the points available to Matt if he goes down the route I mentioned. If Milik does not qualify for a reduction as I thought then of course Matt would have to rethink, but even then I think its a highly unlikely scenario even if I wished it. Remember I did quantify my comments with the fact I was playing a "Fantasy team" building exercise/discussion. Just so we are clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, Badge said: Take offense Poole fans if you like, but here's another Ipswich fan with an opinion From the outside looking in, so to speak, Poole have been most successful because they were, notice were, able to bring in successful riders to their teams, trick, loram, ward, holder, all riders who cut their speedway teeth at other clubs before Poole came calling. Just using shanes as an example, they never stick with anyone who they "feel" isn't cutting the mustard. British boys have no future at Poole because they aren't allowed to progress naturally, which is such a shame, because they seem to like Aussies better I could say more but won't Okay, one year though 1999. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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