steve roberts Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 1979 Swindon v Hull track was soaking unraceable Dennis Sigalos scored a 15 point max from the reserve berth and Bob Kilby scored15 they never met in the meeting. I was there Sid! Remember Dennis' maximum but wasn't aware that he and 'Kilb' never met during the meeting. I seem to recall a similar occurrence when Reading met Coventry and both Ole Olsen and Jiri Stancl both scored maximums riding for opposite teams but never actually met each other during the meeting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 I was there Sid! Remember Dennis' maximum but wasn't aware that he and 'Kilb' never met during the meeting. I seem to recall a similar occurrence when Reading met Coventry and both Ole Olsen and Jiri Stancl both scored maximums riding for opposite teams but never actually met each other during the meeting! You were right mate Dementia setting in Kilb 14 beaten only in heat 13 by Ivan, Sigalos 15 from no 7 unbeaten Joe Owen broke down an route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 You were right mate Dementia setting in Kilb 14 beaten only in heat 13 by Ivan, Sigalos 15 from no 7 unbeaten Joe Owen broke down an route. Remember the issue with Joe Owen...ultimately (together with certain riders non-appearances at Wimbledon) cost Hull the Championship that year...much to Ivan Mauger's anger! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest compost Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Very much subjective but in the 'men' category how about all those riding for Bradford & West Ham on the 1st July 1950 who decided to carry on riding following the accident to Joe Abbott in which Joe was killed instantly. The accident happened in heat 6 and they ran the remaining 8 heats of the League match plus the Junior match (2 Heats) and 5 heat second half (the decision was a joint one between riders and promoters - I think the fans weren't told until after the meeting had finished). If anyone wants a list of riders then I'll post them later. Certainly pre-70's they seem to have been a tougher and more 'up for it' breed than is the case in more modern times (I suppose they just got on with it). Added - they also carried on racing following the accident which lead to Jock Shead being fatally injured at Norwich on the same day as Joe Abbott. Jock passed away shortly after arriving at hospital that evening so the meeting could still have been under way Edited July 19, 2017 by compost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Very much subjective but in the 'men' category how about all those riding for Bradford & West Ham on the 1st July 1950 who decided to carry on riding following the accident to Joe Abbott in which Joe was killed instantly. The accident happened in heat 6 and they ran the remaining 8 heats of the League match plus the Junior match (2 Heats) and 5 heat second half (the decision was a joint one between riders and promoters - I think the fans weren't told until after the meeting had finished). If anyone wants a list of riders then I'll post them later. Certainly pre-70's they seem to have been a tougher and more 'up for it' breed than is the case in more modern times (I suppose they just got on with it). Added - they also carried on racing following the accident which lead to Jock Shead being fatally injured at Norwich on the same day as Joe Abbott. Jock passed away shortly after arriving at hospital that evening so the meeting could still have been under way I wasn't at the Joe Abbot meeting but I was local to the Odsal track and was a fan there and Belle Vue in the 1950s. Many years later I was working at a house just off Odsal roundabout and I asked the elderly occupant if he could hear the bikes, he replied that he could and that he worked at the mortuary where Joe Abbot's body was taken, he told me that Joe had many broken bones from past injuries and they obviously hadn't been allowed to properly heal. It seemed common in those days to see riders still competing with an arm in plaster or having to be helped on and off their bikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Aussies don't like riding in the wet it seems... they all seem wet themselves these days. The likes of Phil Crump, son Jason, Leigh Adams etc, must despair at the wetness of some of their countryman these days. They don't even like driving in it...let alone racing in it. I remember when travelling around OZ and staying at Coolangatta. It poured with rain one day, and there were all these cars parked up under a bridge off the road. I asked my Aussie mate what was going on...it was all the drivers that didn't know or like driving in the rain lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Kenny Carter would be ready to race, whatever the conditions, I imagine Nigel Boocock was the same.Agree on KC but at the same time he was hardly a team man. Belive he described riding for Halifax as "me and 6 prats" or words to that effect. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Agree on KC but at the same time he was hardly a team man. Belive he described riding for Halifax as "me and 6 prats" or words to that effect. They were certainly something of a one man band, he was the local hero and put bums on seats but they had to pay a lot to keep him, I don't think he was short of offers from elsewhere and riding in Halifax on a Saturday added to the complications for him riding abroad on a Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Reading 1979 New Zealand world team cup winners god that was wet unraceable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMac Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Steve i can remember Dag smashing his face up badly( got photograph) i think it was a WC European Final championship round??? he still qualified for the Gothenburg world final in 74. He did crash in the '74 European Final at Wembley. Certainly pre-70's they seem to have been a tougher and more 'up for it' breed than is the case in more modern times (I suppose they just got on with it). Their obvious bravery was also born out of necessity. Unlike most of today's prima donnas, they were paid a relative pittance and had to race hard for every penny they earned. Only the superstars could command guarantees and signing-on fees, whereas they have long since become the norm (to British speedway's great cost). Edited July 19, 2017 by tmc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 He did crash in the '74 European Final at Wembley.Didn't go "tmc but was rooting for Autrey (Didn't qualify) and Betts he qualified criminally his one and only W-Final appearance he rode in the Final with a broken colar-bone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Didn't go "tmc but was rooting for Autrey (Didn't qualify) and Betts he qualified criminally his one and only W-Final appearance he rode in the Final with a broken colar-bone. Yes I was at Poole (one of Terry's least favourite tracks) when he broke it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner85 Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Riders use bikes that are much more powerful than in the past. They are the ones taking the risk so this topic is insulting to the riders. When a rider or riders consider the track conditions are not safe then they deserve our respect even if it means abandoning the meeting. Leicester this week where riders were withdrawn / injured makes me feel that the track conditions were dubious to say the least. Riders were picking up a lot of grip in parts of the track which caused problems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Riders use bikes that are much more powerful than in the past. They are the ones taking the risk so this topic is insulting to the riders. When a rider or riders consider the track conditions are not safe then they deserve our respect even if it means abandoning the meeting. Leicester this week where riders were withdrawn / injured makes me feel that the track conditions were dubious to say the least. Riders were picking up a lot of grip in parts of the track which caused problems. Thereby lies one of the major problems with speedway. Bikes have been allowed to become more powerful, and some would argue, less easy to handle on tracks that have barely changed...albeit fences have improved with the removal of poles and air fencing installed. I spoke to Peter Collins once and asked him what had changed most in the sport during his time and after and his answer was that the bikes had become too powerful on tracks that were no longer designed for such speeds. Four valves were the start of the decline but lay down engines, link forks etc have taken it to another level and who knows what next development lays in store. The engine tuners must be laughing! Edited July 19, 2017 by steve roberts 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 I think the introduction of air fences has also created a different problem. Whilst they undeniably reduce injury when crashing into...I can't remember so many riders in the past, crashing into the corner safety fence as much as they do today. It's almost caused a 'safety net', where riders are more willing to ride aggressively in the corners and take more risks. Some of the crash's we've seen into these air fences in recent years, would have led to far worse injuries if it were a solid fence. The one at Leicester this past week would have been far worse. Also the introduction of full body armour underneath the kevlars, leads to a feeling of invincibility to some. If riders just wore leathers and a back protector...then I'm sure it would be different again. Make a cauldron pot of air fences, full body armour and neck protectors, high revving bikes that are unpredictable, tracks that sometimes aren't suitable for these modern engines, and the invincible attitude and feeling of the riders, then I'm surprised there aren't more injuries. I'm involved in Ski Racing and it's had the same problems. Technology, body protection, greater speed and G forces...all take their toll on the human skeleton. Yet Racers feel more protected and take more risks. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Riders use bikes that are much more powerful than in the past. They are the ones taking the risk so this topic is insulting to the riders. When a rider or riders consider the track conditions are not safe then they deserve our respect even if it means abandoning the meeting. Leicester this week where riders were withdrawn / injured makes me feel that the track conditions were dubious to say the least. Riders were picking up a lot of grip in parts of the track which caused problems. The trouble is who has the right to call a meeting off?If it really is the riders then we are in big trouble. There is hardly ever in most of these situations just the one view.Riders have different opinions and often it is the one(s) who shout loudest that hold sway.Warsaw a couple of years ago was chaotic and a few years back a Danish world championship quali at Esbjerg was called off on the saturday(the day i travelled up)quite rightly as it was raining heavily.So they set about running it the next day and after about 6 heats the 'riders' decided the track wasn't good enough and had it called off again.The problem lways will be that the riders who had a bad heat or two will be in a negative mind set and could also be suspected of wanting a new start so they can have a clean sheet again.The riders who done well will probably want the meeting to go on.Jesper Monberg did come out afterwards and state that he thought the meeting should have carried on and he was partly at fault for not standing up and being more vocal for tht viewpoint....... In the end though the ref should be the one and if he say's the meeting goes on and riders drop out then they must face a ban.Fairly lengthy one imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamish McRaker Posted July 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Riders use bikes that are much more powerful than in the past. They are the ones taking the risk so this topic is insulting to the riders. When a rider or riders consider the track conditions are not safe then they deserve our respect even if it means abandoning the meeting. Leicester this week where riders were withdrawn / injured makes me feel that the track conditions were dubious to say the least. Riders were picking up a lot of grip in parts of the track which caused problems. I'm trying to focus on who are good team men, as opposed to individualists who don't have much of a team ethic. Riding on a poor track can be part of that, but it's more the team ethic thing I have in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Neil Collins, a proper master in the rain.. Never had the machinery to match the top riders but on a wet track where technique, bravery, natural talent and throttle control were the key determinants rather than horsepower he could be fantastic.. Oh I echo this. Some of his throttle control to take seemingly impossible inside manoeuvres at Station Road were a joy to watch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 I can remember Jack Millen riding with a broken Collar Bone, and at another time with his leg in plaster, his boot cut open to accommodate the plaster. It wouldn't be allowed nowadays I suspect with Health and Safety the way it is - and actually that is probably a good thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 I can remember Jack Millen riding with a broken Collar Bone, and at another time with his leg in plaster, his boot cut open to accommodate the plaster. It wouldn't be allowed nowadays I suspect with Health and Safety the way it is - and actually that is probably a good thing. Jack would of rode with a broken neck WK if need be a tough old boy.WK did Jack marry a local girl in Paisley or somewhere in Scotland.??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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