False dawn Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Remember they are not employees so restraint of trade is not applicable. What is applicable is the conditions imposed by the polish clubs. It is up to the rider to accept or reject the Polish conditions, then for the club to engage them or not. The rider might then try to sue because the club is restricting what the rider can do but the club would just not employ them. The best action would be for the top riders in the world to sign for a Polish club but cross out any part of the contract that stops them riding elsewhere, or just not ride in Poland. Being employee or self employed is not the issue. In both circumstances you sign a contract. The issue is if such contracts are illegal. A contract is invalidated if it contains illegal clauses and this is the case here. You cannot sign away your rights regardless of the amounts involved or the power of one party. I refer you to the European Union Article 101. This appears to enshrine in law the UK concept of restraint of trade, which is based on case law within these shores. However, I spent 10 minutes looking at this and now I'm going for a lie down. I do believe there might be a case here but it would take better men than me to unravel the law. Intuitively, what the Poles are doing seems wrong to me and seeks to prevent riders from pursuing their legitimate trade elsewhere. If something seems unfair (prima facie) surely the relevant authorities, in this case the FIM, should investigate. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Maybe this'll end up on Judge Rinder??? ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Â Â I'd imagine it's highly unlikely. Â Â You would think so yes, but the Poles pay the highest wage so can dictate. And virtually every British club (bar Poole) signed up to say they agreed. Â I hope their greedy demands are called out by the riders. It only needs a couple to go against them, but I doubt the big pay check will see many stand up to them. Â As has been previously posted also, I'm led to believe Somerset didn't sign the agreement either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Forgive me, but isn't this restraint of trade? Surely not legal under EU law?How is it a restraint of trade? Do you really think it's illegal to offer a contract a condition of which is a level of exclusivity about working for your company? Which law do you think this breaks? What if the poles reword the contract and simply says the rider needs to train in Poland each day unless the employing club agrees otherwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 How is it a restraint of trade? Do you really think it's illegal to offer a contract a condition of which is a level of exclusivity about working for your company? Which law do you think this breaks? Well I'll answer this one and then give up. The contracts the Poles are offering restrict what the riders can do in riding elsewhere. The test of such contracts in this country is, "Is this reasonable?". I believe, no it isn't reasonable. But I'm not a judge, just my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 He made a stand on Thursday, he was certainly not the only one, but he's carrying the can, the SCB are wrong to have singled him out for their harsh punishment. Â Heartily concur. I'm guessing that whoever reported him to the SCB decided he was the only one that could/should be punished. Would that have been the referee reporting him for missing rides on two minutes or would it have come from another source ? I can only assume that it wasn't the referee, otherwise anyone failing to make the two minute time allowance twice in a meeting has a potential 28 day ban hanging over them. Why weren't Lambert and Huckenbeck given the same sanction for refusing to race in heat 9 ? Because they only missed the two minutes once and came out and rode again? Holder came out for a TR ride after his first 2 minute exclusion iirc. Â I can only conclude that someone has used their influence to sanction a punishment on Holder, which I think is an abuse of their position. Â Rico 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Like watching Holder the rider. Exciting style, very dynamic and Brave. He another whinging Aussie but he's been a loyal servant to British Speedway, that cant really be denied. I dont know the full story behind last week but what I do know is that they have been moaning about the KL track for a while & even Rob Lambert is complaining about the state of it. Its all well and good Buster and others on here saying it was ride able, but they arent the ones who risk injury or worse are they. Not saying Holder is totally innocent but maybe he'd just reached breaking point. Â Whats more worrying for me is that a track that was one of mine - and many others favorites has been allowed to get so bad. Added to that its the track of the BSPA Chairman. Surely thats more worrying than anything else?! Edited July 19, 2017 by RPNYC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Like watching Holder the rider. Exciting style, very dynamic and Brave. He another whinging Aussie but he's been a loyal servant to British Speedway, that cant really be denied. I dont know the full story behind last week but what I do know is that they have been moaning about the KL track for a while & even Rob Lambert is complaining about the state of it. Its all well and good Buster and others on here saying it was ride able, but they arent the ones who risk injury or worse are they. Not saying Holder is totally innocent but maybe he'd just reached breaking point. Â Whats more worrying for me is that a track that was one of mine - and many others favorites has been allowed to get so bad. Added to that its the track of the BSPA Chairman. Surely thats more worrying than anything else?! Â In my opinion the riders were mostly at fault for going on strike in the way they did. Forcing the ref to come down seems wrong and the first heat times were very fast ( the fastest this year ). I love watching Robert Lambert who is a great rider with the potential to go much further but not by behaving in this way and being a major part of the strike. You can't do that except in exceptional circumstances and I don't believe the track last Thursday was exceptionally bad, nor affected by the light rain. Some Riders did not give a fig for the supporters and can't complain if the crowd dwindles further. Â But Yes, Buster should really think about standing down as Chairman of the BSPA because he is unable to make sure that his own track and team is in full working order. A very poor example. And the co-promoters are in name only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Such a shame. Team had a good following, its a nice little stadium now, track COULD be one of the best in the country too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wealdstone Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Such a shame. Team had a good following, its a nice little stadium now, track COULD be one of the best in the country too. I have to say that having being a regular at Kings Lynn in the middle seventies from a watching the racing point of view it was much better before stadium upgrade. Â Cosmetically it looks a lot better but imo not from a viewing point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) From my observation last Thursday and at other meetings, it is not just the track that is at fault. Riders are getting more and more used to slick tracks where the bike can spin up on the surface whilst the rider holds the throttle wide open. At the same time engines develop more and more bhp and torque. When the surface is grippy what tends to happen is the bike drives more and is more unpredictable. You'll hear riders talking about flattening the engine or detuning it. The track last week was not overwatered, it wasn't especially bumpy, the shale was not uneven. But it did have a decent amount of shale on it and guess what? These rocket machines picked up. Some riders (who have never been World Champion) found a way to ride it and BEFORE the remedial work were setting the fastest times seen at KL for years. Again, from observation, it seems you have to be able to set up the bike and engine properly, don't be timid and yes, have some good old throttle control. I'm not saying that KL couldn't improve their circuit but if you present professional sportsmen with safe but challenging conditions they should perform better than this. Edited July 19, 2017 by False dawn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Well I'll answer this one and then give up. The contracts the Poles are offering restrict what the riders can do in riding elsewhere. The test of such contracts in this country is, "Is this reasonable?". I believe, no it isn't reasonable. But I'm not a judge, just my opinion. I have no idea if Polish law does not allow restraint of trade. If the rider does not like the restriction he has two choices, cross that bit out of the contract before signing or don't sign the contract. The rider cannot force the club to give him a contract to ride. It is not the club issuing this condition of number of leagues it is the Polish Authorities. If the rider thinks it is a restraint of trade he can take the authority to court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 I have no idea if Polish law does not allow restraint of trade. If the rider does not like the restriction he has two choices, cross that bit out of the contract before signing or don't sign the contract. The rider cannot force the club to give him a contract to ride. It is not the club issuing this condition of number of leagues it is the Polish Authorities. If the rider thinks it is a restraint of trade he can take the authority to court. Â Well I said I'd give up and I will. But answer me this. Do you think it's right for the Polish authorities to prevent a rider from riding over here?[clue] Your answer will determine which riders are available to UK clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Well I said I'd give up and I will. But answer me this. Do you think it's right for the Polish authorities to prevent a rider from riding over here? [clue] Your answer will determine which riders are available to UK clubs. Â It is not a matter of wether it is "right" or not. They have the power and wealth in Poland to do as they wish. Riders fall over themselves for that "pot of gold" - we all would if we could. Let's enjoy speedway with riders who are happy to be riding here, whatever level that ends up as. Goodbye GP riders and those with Polish contracts. We can watch them on TV if we really miss them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 It is not a matter of wether it is "right" or not. They have the power and wealth in Poland to do as they wish. Riders fall over themselves for that "pot of gold" - we all would if we could. Let's enjoy speedway with riders who are happy to be riding here, whatever level that ends up as. Goodbye GP riders and those with Polish contracts. We can watch them on TV if we really miss them.Sorry, this is illegal, against the law, not enforcable in a court of law. The Poles are breaking EU law and no one has the balls to stop them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 I think you are asking the wrong question. Â The question should be would Holder, Batchelor et al have got away with their antics of last Thursday in Poland. Â Â Answers on a postcard 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Well I said I'd give up and I will. But answer me this. Do you think it's right for the Polish authorities to prevent a rider from riding over here? [clue] Your answer will determine which riders are available to UK clubs. No, but many of the top riders need to refuse to sign next years contract to make them see sense. It would then be up to the clubs to defy whoever is imposing this condition if they want the top riders to ride in Poland. I was self employed at one point and along with many others crossed out a section of a new contract sent out by the organisation we all worked with. Because all the top people crossed out the section before returning the contract the organisation had to remove it and re send out new acceptable contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 The problem is....who will stand up against the Polish authorities, because whoever does can say goodbye to riding in Poland. UNLESS, as Orlov alludes to...it will take a number of the very top riders to refuse to sign Polish contracts with that clause in.... the likes of Hancock, TW, Doyle, plus the 4 top Poles in the GP's. Without a stand of that quality its a non starter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 The problem is....who will stand up against the Polish authorities, because whoever does can say goodbye to riding in Poland. UNLESS, as Orlov alludes to...it will take a number of the very top riders to refuse to sign Polish contracts with that clause in.... the likes of Hancock, TW, Doyle, plus the 4 top Poles in the GP's. Without a stand of that quality its a non starter. As I said earlier (twice, I think) surely the FIM should be taking an active role in this? A national racing authority, acting under their jurisdiction is behaving in what could easily be defined as an illegal fashion. Not FIM rules, EU rules. They have the power and the clout to tell them to stop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Sorry, this is illegal, against the law, not enforcable in a court of law. The Poles are breaking EU law and no one has the balls to stop them.  You are right. But until a group have the balls to challenge it Poland will go on imposing their will on top level speedway. I think it is likely to be Poland and one other country in 2018. Will that sting some of the GP boys into action or will they be content with £1,000 point in Poland and £500 a point (?) in Sweden? I think you are asking the wrong question.  The question should be would Holder, Batchelor et al have got away with their antics of last Thursday in Poland.   Answers on a postcard No. But Batchelor's situation is different because someone signed him off as injured ( track doctor, referee?) but Lambert and Huckenbeck should be fined ( not banned )for being the first to "strike". Of course Batchelor too but it is hard to prove the case against him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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