Leicester Lions Vs Swindon Robins 17/07/17

[Phil The Ace]

Gustrow,,,, now that is a technically superb flat out racing track. Best in the world.

[BWitcher]

 

 

It's an odd statement, from a speedway fan, i'd say.

 

Not necessarily.

 

Some prefer to see the best riders win, not any old rider who happens to hit the right setup.

 

I have some sympathy for that view, but I cannot deny the exciting racing.

[Speedy swindon pete]

There's plenty of evidence that the technical track produce great racing too, wolves and others being a good examples. Surely as a speedway fan through, you just want to see good close racing. whether its from a flat out polish track, or a pidly, tricky, British track. So saying you prefer one over the other is a slightly odd point.

 

At a track that "anyone can ride" will probably mean you're more likely to get an even field in each race, rather than one or two track experts making all the moves.

 

BP didn't disgrace its self last night by any means, i've said plenty of times I've seen far worse meetings (absolutely awful) at KL and Swindon.

[TheReturn]

The Return- Your comments about the track staff in Pawel situation are wholly unjustified if you had known facts.

 

Pawel had buried and wrapped himself and bike deep into the deflated air fence actually ending up face first into the fence with head underneath the handlebars and leg stuck between seat and back mudguard.

 

The track staff were having to hold the air fence back so the medics could treat him and for their protection as covering the red hot bike as space was tight and the bike was stuck in the fence behind and the riders leg had to be released from the bike without causing him further injury.

 

It was such a good job that there was an air fence as could have been so much worse also pleased to see that fence did not lift and catch bike and rider as expected

Fair enough then I take it back. Just looked like they were standing there looking at a stricken rider for a long time from the images shown.

[stevebrum]

Watched this meeting today, decent enough and the track changes have definitely helped the racing.

3 injuries in a meeting is extremely excessive and what a huge disappointment for Pawel.

All racing incidents.

You have to feel for Leicester tho who thoroughly should have earned something from the meeting.

Heat 15 was class.

[Speedwaycrazy]

 

 

It's an odd statement, from a speedway fan, i'd say.

 

 

 

Not sure that is the point he is making, although he hasn't made it well.

 

What he is trying to say is more skill is required on more technical tracks. The NSS is heavily biased towards bike setup, it's pretty easy to ride. There are countless examples of that... BUT and it's a big but, that doesn't mean the racing is poor there, far from it.

 

I am glad you got the gist of what I am saying, the more skilful riders can adapt to the tight confines of Leicester / Wolves / Lakeside...but not everyone can and they can be shown up in a big way!...I just personally like this aspect of racing more than' gas and go'.

[martin_t]

Why did Musielek get double points when he beat no Leicester rider?18.14.3 The TR rider starts from the Starting Gate and Race points scored are doubled provided s/he finishes ahead of an Opponent. NB a non-finisher is an OpponentI would have said Newman was a non-starter and not a non-finisher

Good shout!

Unless it's already been mentioned,Leicester chose to put one rider out not two,I guess that makes a difference.

[foamfence]

I thought it strange that they should widen the track round the inside and then prepare it so no one can actually ride there, the first few heats you should be able to ride the inside until the dirt moves out but the riders were out wide from the off. OK if you like crashes and near misses, personally I don't.

[dump that clutch]

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/sport/speedway/15417256.Robins_make_Musielak_switch_permanent/

[Gresham]

What I've noticed over recent years, is that riders have become accustomed to riding and racing their bikes in a certain way, and don't particularly adapt very well to different conditions and shapes like they used to be able to do in the past.

 

I look at Riders like Doyle and Holder for example...who imo, are great riders when it suits them. But they get found out when it's not to their liking.

 

Same can be said of other 'Greats' in other sports...some prefer certain race circuits in F1 and Moto GP. Some Tennis players prefer and play better on different surfaces. Certain Golfers like American 'Park like' courses but can't play in the wind and layout of a Links course etc.

 

From witnessing last nights racing...it became apparent that there was one racing line. If you tried to go out wide and stay in the dirt the whole time, you got into a lot of trouble or hit traffic in front of you that was locking up and leaving no space. The only time it looked like someone had achieved it was when BWD almost took Reiss around the outside, only to get elbowed out the way lol

 

For me, a great rider, is one that can ride in all conditions, on all shapes of tracks and can adapt. They might not become World Champions...but they are very often the unsung hero's of Speedway.

 

Mark Loram, Chris Morton, Chris Harris come to mind. Even Andrew Silver....most never had the best set up's, but boy could they ride all tracks and conditions. For me...that makes a great ;-)

Edited July 18, 2017 by Gresham

[foamfence]

What I've noticed over recent years, is that riders have become accustomed to riding and racing their bikes in a certain way, and don't particularly adapt very well to different conditions and shapes like they used to be able to do in the past.

 

I look at Riders like Doyle and Holder for example...who imo, are great riders when it suits them. But they get found out when it's not to their liking.

 

Same can be said of other 'Greats' in other sports...some prefer certain race circuits in F1 and Moto GP. Some Tennis players prefer and play better on different surfaces. Certain Golfers like American 'Park like' courses but can't play in the wind and layout of a Links course etc.

 

From witnessing last nights racing...it became apparent that there was one racing line. If you tried to go out wide and stay in the dirt the whole time, you got into a lot of trouble or hit traffic in front of you that was locking up and leaving no space. The only time it looked like someone had achieved it was when BWD almost took Reiss around the outside, only to get elbowed out the way lol

 

For me, a great rider, is one that can ride in all conditions, on all shapes of tracks and can adapt. They might not become World Champions...but they are very often the unsung hero's of Speedway.

 

Mark Loram, Chris Morton, Chris Harris come to mind. Even Andrew Silver....most never had the best set up's, but boy could they ride all tracks and conditions. For me...that makes a great ;-)

While there is a lot of truth in that, I also subscribe to the Kelvin Tatum theory that today's combination of tyres, silencers and engines, makes the bikes unnecessarily unpredictable and thus, too dangerous. There simply aren't enough riders able to handle differing conditions, with the equipment that they are expected to use.

[BWitcher]

I can't agree with your assessment of Doyle at all.

 

Sure he will whinge when he feels a track is unsafe, but he can ride them all fine. I don't think he's been 'found out' very often over the last couple of years!

[marko]

The problem isn't with the tracks, it's the damn bikes, when oh when will something be done so that the sport can be returned to one where throttle control wins over pure give it everything, hold on and hope.

 

Dont change the tracks to the point we are racing on concrete, change the flipping bikes, upright engines, better silencers etc

[Speedy swindon pete]

But on the flip side.....how hard is it to produce a smooth and consistent track? We all know what the bikes are like these days, we can kick and scream as much as we like, but they're not going to change any time soon, especially going back to the "louder" silencers. We still see plenty of good racing these days, its not like the bikes have completely neutered the racing. Yet we still get tracks purposely prepared half like concrete, half like a ploughed field.

[Gresham]

I can't agree with your assessment of Doyle at all.

 

Sure he will whinge when he feels a track is unsafe, but he can ride them all fine. I don't think he's been 'found out' very often over the last couple of years!

Whilst I agree Doyle is a fine rider...I put him in the same category as I do Rory Mcilroy in Golf. Great...when conditions suit them.

 

I'm yet to be convinced on Doyle always using the 'track unsafe' vote. I think imo, he's used that 'theory' when a track hasn't suited him. Often when he has said this, other riders have proved him wrong, and the track is raceable....Some riders can adapt better than others. Some whinge more than others, especially when it doesn't suit their them or their set up on the day.

 

As he said in a recent interview...'sometimes you have to lie when the situation doesn't suit you'...or words to that affect.

 

I think he and others pull the 'unsafe' theory way too much, especially when conditions don't suit them.

[BearIt]

Hope Pawel is okat

[hyderd]

Great meeting with some good races and a grandstand finish, fans can't ask for more.

 

I feel for Leicester, they gave it their all but were unlucky to lose their new Pole, his 1st ride he looked like a real novice, didn't take him long to sus out the racing line though, as he was 100% better in his second ride. But credit where it's due, Swindon kept it close and did what they had to do to nick a good win in the last 4 heats.

[TheReturn]

Any news on the injured riders?

[flagrag]

Pawel is back home in Poland and having an op this afternoon to plate the break then hopes to be back racing in 2-3 weeks.

 

No messing around over there his DR had the results last night and being taken straight from airport to hospital to have surgery

[BWitcher]

Whilst I agree Doyle is a fine rider...I put him in the same category as I do Rory Mcilroy in Golf. Great...when conditions suit them.

 

I'm yet to be convinced on Doyle always using the 'track unsafe' vote. I think imo, he's used that 'theory' when a track hasn't suited him. Often when he has said this, other riders have proved him wrong, and the track is raceable....Some riders can adapt better than others. Some whinge more than others, especially when it doesn't suit their them or their set up on the day.

 

As he said in a recent interview...'sometimes you have to lie when the situation doesn't suit you'...or words to that affect.

 

I think he and others pull the 'unsafe' theory way too much, especially when conditions don't suit them.

 

So name these meetings where Doyle has been found wanting due to 'track conditions' or when a track hasn't suited him?

 

He's right up the top of the league averages, right up the top of the GP standings. That suggests he has far less poor meetings than any other rider.

 

Now Holder, the current version, I would agree with. Before his injury, the Ward incident etc it was a different story. Now, mentally, he is very fragile.

Edited July 18, 2017 by BWitcher