What Are Peoples Opinions Of These Five Legends.?

[steve roberts]

Surely not the man would sold Leicester .and the promoter Martin Rogers not knowing about it until he read it in the paper

Martin has talked extensively about this episode in recent editions of the 'Backtrack' magazine.

Bob Dugard for what he achieved at Eastbourne bringing on English talent together with Arthur Nutley.

[Midland Red]

Surely not the man would sold Leicester .and the promoter Martin Rogers not knowing about it until he read it in the paper

I thought this had been discussed before, that it wasn't Mr Ochiltree's decision

[The White Knight]

The 'Speedway Star' item 'Heads and Tales' does indicate attendances were not up to expectations despite one attempt where 10,000 free tickets were given out. This it appears brought in a good attendance but subsequent attendances were again below what I presume then was a break level?

I note that 'Speedway Star' also mentions the possibility of open meetings taking place. Sadly, it would appear that never happened?

As I see the matter, Parker and Bridgett were also facing team problems at Newcastle and Wolverhampton. Presumably attendances at these tracks were better than Sunderland's and their sacrifice was needed to keep the other tracks operational. To have not made what must have been a difficult choice Sunderland was chosen as the sacrifice to keep Newcastle and Wolverhampton running?

And the decisive and LOGICAL criteria could be that the two be chosen out of the three were Newcastle and Wolverhampton because they MAY have had better attendances and therefore were worth the nod of approval to stay in speedway.

All I will say is that there were 8,000 people at the penultimate Meeting. I was there. Remember, we only had 9 Home Meetings before they shut us down. Hardly a fair run to accurately judge support levels I think.

 

Bridgett particularly needed our Riders as Wolves were near the bottom of the League - they eventually finished third, with a number of ex Sunderland Riders in the Team, if my memory serves me right. Meanwhile Newcastle got Sharples who was instrumental in them winning the League that year.

 

So it was definitely about Riders and nothing to do with attendances. I spoke to a Wolves Supporter who agreed with my analysis of the situation.

 

Granted the weather was not great over that period. But we never had a Meeting rained off and the Summer was on the way.

 

We were shafted by the Promoters in my opinion. I have held that opinion for over 50 years and still feel that way today.

[Guest]

All I will say is that there were 8,000 people at the penultimate Meeting. I was there. Remember, we only had 9 Home Meetings before they shut us down. Hardly a fair run to accurately judge support levels I think.

 

Bridgett particularly needed our Riders as Wolves were near the bottom of the League - they eventually finished third, with a number of ex Sunderland Riders in the Team, if my memory serves me right. Meanwhile Newcastle got Sharples who was instrumental in them winning the League that year.

 

So it was definitely about Riders and nothing to do with attendances. I spoke to a Wolves Supporter who agreed with my analysis of the situation.

 

Granted the weather was not great over that period. But we never had a Meeting rained off and the Summer was on the way.

 

We were shafted by the Promoters in my opinion. I have held that opinion for over 50 years and still feel that way today.

​You make a good case The White Knight on why Sunderland were badly treated by promoters Mike Parker and Bill Bridgett.

Previous Posts in regard to Sunderland in this thread have made assumptions as to why it was thought this happened. What in your opinion was the reason why the promoters Mike Parker and Bill Bridgett favoured Wolverhampton and Newcastle at the expense of Sunderland?

[steve roberts]

I thought this had been discussed before, that it wasn't Mr Ochiltree's decision

But wasn't he Managing Director of Midland Sports Stadiums and therefore ultimately responsible?

[The White Knight]

​You make a good case The White Knight on why Sunderland were badly treated by promoters Mike Parker and Bill Bridgett.

Previous Posts in regard to Sunderland in this thread have made assumptions as to why it was thought this happened. What in your opinion was the reason why the promoters Mike Parker and Bill Bridgett favoured Wolverhampton and Newcastle at the expense of Sunderland?

To answer your question directly.

 

Sunderland was a new Track. Wolverhampton and Newcastle were well established long running Speedway Teams. Sunderland was set up with a rag tag set of Riders. We were really not that competitive even at Home. Ken Sharples was then brought in to shore up what was basically a pretty weak Team at the very start of of operations at Sunderland. Everybody knows that if you are starting a new venture it is probably wise to give your hoped for Supporters a Team that is capable of winning well at Home. That didn't happen with us. But crucially the Crowds turned up even on damp evenings.

 

As to the reason why they favoured Wolverhampton and Newcastle, as I stated earlier, they were long established Teams, crucially with long established Support. Both Wolverhampton and Newcastle had built up their support over many years - we were given 9 Meetings in one single Season to build our support. The Sunderland Echo reported that there were 8,500 people at our penultimate Meeting - not too bad, I think you will agree. I don't know how many attendees there were at the last Meeting but there were a lot, I know, because again I was there. (I saw all 9 Meetings in 1964).

 

Bridgett and Parker favoured Newcastle and Wolverhampton because they were so long established they made a lot of money. Sunderland, to my mind was sacrificed because Wolverhampton's Gates were down as they were near the bottom of the League and the only way they could recover their position near the top was to poach our Riders. As stated earlier Newcastle got Ken Sharples.

 

But Wolverhampton got the following Riders from Sunderland:

 

Jim Airey

 

Gordon Guasco

 

Colin McKee

 

(All three were, or became great Riders - and all had their first Rides in England at Sunderland).

 

The improvement in the Wolverhampton Team was immediate.

 

THAT, my friend, is the Case for the Prosecution.

Edited July 14, 2017 by The White Knight

[mickthemuppet]

But wasn't he Managing Director of Midland Sports Stadiums and therefore ultimately responsible?

Exactly correct ..he said I quote " Midland Sports Ltd managing director Charles Ochiltree said it was purely a business decision"

Not one of the greats of Speedway was he . I would put him about the level of Stuart Bamford at Belle Vue another who sold his soul for a mess of potage

What profits a man is he loses his soul yet gaineth the world

Edited July 13, 2017 by mickthemuppet

[Guest]

To answer your question directly.

 

Sunderland was a new Track. Wolverhampton and Newcastle were well established long running Speedway Teams. Sunderland was set up with a rag tag set of Riders. We were really not that competitive even at Home. Ken Sharples was then brought in to shore up what was basically a pretty weak Team at the very start of of operations at Sunderland. Everybody knows that if you are starting a new venture it is probably wise to give your hoped for Supporters a Team that is capable of winning well at Home. That didn't happen with us. But crucially the Crowds turned up even on damp evenings.

 

As to the reason why they favoured Wolverhampton and Newcastle, as I stated earlier, they were long established Teams, crucially with long established Support. Both Wolverhampton and Newcastle had built up their support over many years - we were given 9 Meetings in one single Season to build our support. The Sunderland Echo reported that there were 8,500 people at out penultimate Meeting - not too bad, I think you will agree. I don't know how many attendees there were at the last Meeting but there were a lot, I know, because again I was there. (I saw all 9 Meetings in 1964).

 

Bridgett and Parker favoured Newcastle and Wolverhampton because they were so long established they made a lot of money. Sunderland, to my mind was sacrificed because Wolverhampton's Gates were down as they were near the bottom of the League and the only way they could recover their position near the top was to poach our Riders. As stated earlier Newcastle got Ken Sharples.

 

But Wolverhampton got the following Riders from Sunderland:

 

Jim Airey

 

Gordon Guasco

 

Colin McKee

 

(All three were, or became great Riders - and all had their first Rides in England at Sunderland).

 

The improvement in the Wolverhampton Team was immediate.

 

THAT, my friend, is the Case for the Prosecution.

 

...and on the case presented the verdict is most strongly in your favour. The facts you present are extremely positive. I can see no argument against what you have presented.

[steve roberts]

To answer your question directly.

 

Sunderland was a new Track. Wolverhampton and Newcastle were well established long running Speedway Teams. Sunderland was set up with a rag tag set of Riders. We were really not that competitive even at Home. Ken Sharples was then brought in to shore up what was basically a pretty weak Team at the very start of of operations at Sunderland. Everybody knows that if you are starting a new venture it is probably wise to give your hoped for Supporters a Team that is capable of winning well at Home. That didn't happen with us. But crucially the Crowds turned up even on damp evenings.

 

As to the reason why they favoured Wolverhampton and Newcastle, as I stated earlier, they were long established Teams, crucially with long established Support. Both Wolverhampton and Newcastle had built up their support over many years - we were given 9 Meetings in one single Season to build our support. The Sunderland Echo reported that there were 8,500 people at out penultimate Meeting - not too bad, I think you will agree. I don't know how many attendees there were at the last Meeting but there were a lot, I know, because again I was there. (I saw all 9 Meetings in 1964).

 

Bridgett and Parker favoured Newcastle and Wolverhampton because they were so long established they made a lot of money. Sunderland, to my mind was sacrificed because Wolverhampton's Gates were down as they were near the bottom of the League and the only way they could recover their position near the top was to poach our Riders. As stated earlier Newcastle got Ken Sharples.

 

But Wolverhampton got the following Riders from Sunderland:

 

Jim Airey

 

Gordon Guasco

 

Colin McKee

 

(All three were, or became great Riders - and all had their first Rides in England at Sunderland).

 

The improvement in the Wolverhampton Team was immediate.

 

THAT, my friend, is the Case for the Prosecution.

Unfortunately I never got to see Sunderland ride (although my family on my mother's side is from that area).

 

I've checked out the stadium as I passed by a couple of years ago however.

[Guest]

​The general trend of this thread where Sunderland is discussed is that the port there hinged on the 1964 season and the lamentable closure that season. However, I would point out that there was indeed further speedway in Sunderland for the 1971, 1972, 1973 and 1974. These happenings are recorded on a new thread now in YEARS GONE BY which is headed as SUNDERLAND SPEEDWAY MEMORIES and IMO recommended reading.

[Midland Red]

But wasn't he Managing Director of Midland Sports Stadiums and therefore ultimately responsible?

#213 Coventry Stadium Sold: post #213 Humphrey Appleby

Posted 24 February 2014 - 07:53 AM

 

PHILIPRISING, on 24 Feb 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

WASN'T it the Sanderson family who actually owned the stadium rather than the Ochiltrees themselves?

 

It's been discussed umpteen times on here, but from recollection the Ochiltrees were minor shareholders and it wouldn't have their decision.

[steve roberts]

#213 Coventry Stadium Sold: post #213 Humphrey Appleby

Posted 24 February 2014 - 07:53 AM

 

PHILIPRISING, on 24 Feb 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

WASN'T it the Sanderson family who actually owned the stadium rather than the Ochiltrees themselves?

 

It's been discussed umpteen times on here, but from recollection the Ochiltrees were minor shareholders and it wouldn't have their decision.

...but aren't we discussing the closure of Blackbird Road in 1983 when Midland Sports Stadiums were the owners and the Managing Director then was Charles Ochiltree?

[Guest]

#213 Coventry Stadium Sold: post #213 Humphrey Appleby

Posted 24 February 2014 - 07:53 AM

 

PHILIPRISING, on 24 Feb 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

WASN'T it the Sanderson family who actually owned the stadium rather than the Ochiltrees themselves?

 

It's been discussed umpteen times on here, but from recollection the Ochiltrees were minor shareholders and it wouldn't have their decision.

 

I tend to agree Midland Red. As I recall it was clarified that the ownership control at Coventry and Leicester was the Sanderson family. So far as the Ochiltrees were concerned, they were virtual employees of the Sanderson family. I am fairly certain that the Sanderson family at one time also had a major interest in the old Custom House Stadium - where West Ham speedway and stock car racing took place over many years?

[steve roberts]

 

I tend to agree Midland Red. As I recall it was clarified that the ownership control at Coventry and Leicester was the Sanderson family. So far as the Ochiltrees were concerned, they were virtual employees of the Sanderson family. I am fairly certain that the Sanderson family at one time also had a major interest in the old Custom House Stadium - where West Ham speedway and stock car racing took place over many years?

According to an article in the 'Classic' Magazine published recently that "...in 2003 the Ochiltrees sold the stadium to businessman Avtar Sandhu".

 

Perhaps some sort of clarification would be welcome?

[norbold]

 

I am fairly certain that the Sanderson family at one time also had a major interest in the old Custom House Stadium - where West Ham speedway and stock car racing took place over many years?

Do you know when that would have been, gustix?

[Guest]

#213 Coventry Stadium Sold: post #213 Humphrey Appleby

Posted 24 February 2014 - 07:53 AM

 

PHILIPRISING, on 24 Feb 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

WASN'T it the Sanderson family who actually owned the stadium rather than the Ochiltrees themselves?

 

It's been discussed umpteen times on here, but from recollection the Ochiltrees were minor shareholders and it wouldn't have their decision.

 

 

...but aren't we discussing the closure of Blackbird Road in 1983 when Midland Sports Stadiums were the owners and the Managing Director then was Charles Ochiltree?

 

Indeed, Charles Ochiltree may well have been the Managing Director, but the controlling owners were it appears the Sanderson family and the C.O would have abided by their overall views in regard to stadium sales. And as a managing director he would also have worked with other directors and at the end of the day votes would have been taken in regard to any decisions to be made. Therefore he would have abided by an overall vote and only intervene when other directors reached a stalemate to make a casting vote. As the sales were seemingly approved by a majority of directors, the C.O would have had no option other than to abide by any decision made.

According to an article in the 'Classic' Magazine published recently that "...in 2003 the Ochiltrees sold the stadium to businessman Avtar Sandhu".

 

Perhaps some sort of clarification would be welcome?

 

That is most likely but the mention of the Ochiltrees was possibly in their overall role as acting for a board of directors who approved the stadium sale on a majority board vote.

[sharpandroid]

Never heard of any of them and I'm 54 so they can't have been that good eh!

[Midland Red]

...but aren't we discussing the closure of Blackbird Road in 1983 when Midland Sports Stadiums were the owners and the Managing Director then was Charles Ochiltree?

Yes, what I posted was in the "Coventry Stadium Sold" thread, hence that reference

 

Mr Ochiltree was A director and a MINOR shareholder - it was a business decision taken by the company in which he was involved, but most certainly not in a position to sell Blackbird Road - or Custom House before that

The company's day-to-day operations, in which the Ochiltrees were involved, included the running of speedway and stock cars, and printing for sports bodies - their role was not in the sale of land and buildings

The wealth lay in the hands of the Sanderson family through several generations

According to an article in the 'Classic' Magazine published recently that "...in 2003 the Ochiltrees sold the stadium to businessman Avtar Sandhu".

 

Perhaps some sort of clarification would be welcome?

That's Brandon - the topic is centred around Blackbird Road from years before

[Guest]

Yes, what I posted was in the "Coventry Stadium Sold" thread, hence that reference

 

Mr Ochiltree was A director and a MINOR shareholder - it was a business decision taken by the company in which he was involved, but most certainly not in a position to sell Blackbird Road - or Custom House before that

The company's day-to-day operations, in which the Ochiltrees were involved, included the running of speedway and stock cars, and printing for sports bodies - their role was not in the sale of land and buildings

The wealth lay in the hands of the Sanderson family through several generations

 

That's Brandon - the topic is centred around Blackbird Road from years before

 

The bottom line could well be that other board members had no interest or sympathy in regard to the sports events that took place. To them, they owned shares in the holding company and were looking for a return on their investments. As simple as that.

[steve roberts]

Yes, what I posted was in the "Coventry Stadium Sold" thread, hence that reference

 

Mr Ochiltree was A director and a MINOR shareholder - it was a business decision taken by the company in which he was involved, but most certainly not in a position to sell Blackbird Road - or Custom House before that

The company's day-to-day operations, in which the Ochiltrees were involved, included the running of speedway and stock cars, and printing for sports bodies - their role was not in the sale of land and buildings

The wealth lay in the hands of the Sanderson family through several generations

 

That's Brandon - the topic is centred around Blackbird Road from years before

Thanks for the clarification...I think! Interesting to get Martin Rogers' definitive version of events, however, as regards the sale of Blackbird Road although he has been less than complimentary when quoted in 'Backtrack'!

Edited July 14, 2017 by steve roberts