Could The Uk League Run On A 4tt Basis

[steve roberts]

 

but wasn't the real issue here that NL participation in the IL4TT was based on the previous season's finishing places. It was usual for NL teams to loose strength after a successful season (even without a points limit) so the following year would see them in the inter-league competitions with a weaker team (same applied generally to the IL KO Cup).

 

In this era Newcastle were probably the most consistent NL side and even with the Owen brothers they struggled. Just showed the gap between the leagues.

In response to the OP, wasn't the reason given for doing away with the round robin 4tt qualifying matches the lack of spectator attendance and apathy towards such meetings ?

 

A league based on 3tt matches wouldn't work (imho) because if the point was to have fewer riders per team then 3tt events have 6 riders plus a reserve per side - so no saving.

 

Hard to see how a 4tt league based on pairs riding per heat (rather than the traditional glorified individual format) would work due to previous posts comments on costs plus the supposed fan apathy to such meetings. Sorry but seems that you need minimum of 6 per team to make it work.

Yes I now recall that being the case however Oxford competed, if I remember, during the 1979 competition with George Hunter, Les Rumsey (two of the highest placed riders in the averages at the time), Pip Lamb and Carl Askew...but were seriously over turned during the away legs but as you suggest it was very different then.

Edited July 11, 2017 by steve roberts

[Humphrey Appleby]

In response to the OP, wasn't the reason given for doing away with the round robin 4tt qualifying matches the lack of spectator attendance and apathy towards such meetings ?

Not sure - I remember some quite well attended 4TTs when it was a more prestigious NL competition, although I seem to remember that riders started to be allowed to miss these rounds and spectator interest dropped away.

 

I can imagine though, the 4TTs weren't popular with promoters because of the same problem of having to finance three away meetings from only one revenue generating home meeting.

 

A league based on 3tt matches wouldn't work (imho) because if the point was to have fewer riders per team then 3tt events have 6 riders plus a reserve per side - so no saving.

You can make a reasonable 3TT format with 4 rider teams, but the biggest flaw is one team is always sitting out of each heat. That's especially boring for home meetings, and also makes things like tactical subs/rides impractical.

 

3TTs are okayish as a novelty format, but shouldn't be used for anything serious even though I believe the Danish Open League did use that format for a season or maybe two.

..again I recall this was the case in 1979/80 when a team from the lower league would take on three teams from the upper league. It didn't prove successful, if I recall, and Oxford riding in the National League in those days with a strong top four were generally hammered!

There was a huge disparity between the BL and NL in those days, so any inter-league competition was never going to be highly competitive. Might be different today where the 'Premiership' and 'Championship' are closer in strength, plus you might consider things like points handicaps to give the lower league teams more of a chance.

[steve roberts]

Not sure - I remember some quite well attended 4TTs when it was a more prestigious NL competition, although I seem to remember that riders started to be allowed to miss these rounds and spectator interest dropped away.

 

I can imagine though, the 4TTs weren't popular with promoters because of the same problem of having to finance three away meetings from only one revenue generating home meeting.

 

 

You can make a reasonable 3TT format with 4 rider teams, but the biggest flaw is one team is always sitting out of each heat. That's especially boring for home meetings, and also makes things like tactical subs/rides impractical.

 

3TTs are okayish as a novelty format, but shouldn't be used for anything serious even though I believe the Danish Open League did use that format for a season or maybe two.

 

There was a huge disparity between the BL and NL in those days, so any inter-league competition was never going to be highly competitive. Might be different today where the 'Premiership' and 'Championship' are closer in strength, plus you might consider things like points handicaps to give the lower league teams more of a chance.

Again, I remember, the BSPA Cup or some such tournament that ran towards the back end of myself attending speedway and Oxford were pitted against Swindon, the Isle of Wight and Reading (?) without their heat leaders and it led to confusion and I think only lasted the one year,

 

Having not been to speedway for many a year I'm not familiar with the comparative strengths within either league but I'm sure that something could be done to even things up a bit.

 

Of course back in the seventies there was the Inter League Cup which threw up the odd surprise like Workington beating both Ipswich and King's Lynn but generally faltered thru' lack of interest and/or commitment.

[The White Knight]

Again, I remember, the BSPA Cup or some such tournament that ran towards the back end of myself attending speedway and Oxford were pitted against Swindon, the Isle of Wight and Reading (?) without their heat leaders and it led to confusion and I think only lasted the one year,

 

Having not been to speedway for many a year I'm not familiar with the comparative strengths within either league but I'm sure that something could be done to even things up a bit.

 

Of course back in the seventies there was the Inter League Cup which threw up the odd surprise like Workington beating both Ipswich and King's Lynn but generally faltered thru' lack of interest and/or commitment.

Rider Control?

[steve roberts]

Rider Control?

Ah! Good old rider control...Oxford never really benefited from it during my days following the sport!

[Humphrey Appleby]

Rider Control?

Rider Control only aimed to equalise team strengths in the same league (and I think then only in the BL). It wouldn't really help with an Inter-League competition, and I don't think it's desirable for the appeal of such a competition for the higher league teams to be missing their best riders who're likely to be the main drawcards.

 

Far better to utilise some sort of handicap system - either on track or through a points (dis)advantage - to make things more competitive.

[AFCB Wildcat]

Why not Suggest something positive that will save this good motor sport from the state that it is currently in then regular criticise. Time to close the topic.

To be fair, most of the responses have been objective rather than the usual rudeness and ridicule dished out to anyone suggesting an alternative to something that is flawed and clearly isn't working!

Personally I love the world cup format and although maybe not practical for the league format for the reasons stated I would like to see it used for the playoffs.

Loss of team riding? As said, it's more or less gone and you see more riders hindering their partners than helping them these days.

At present most playoff teams are filled with guests due to unavailable riders or decided by who has managed to manipulate a quality second string into a reserve birth as a ringer so to me a 4 team 4 man format would be a much better option which could produce a much better quality field and with the nominated heats certainly make the managers work for their money too.

After all we spend a whole season just to eliminate 4 teams so why not shake it up for the finals?

[moomin man 76]

Finland run a 4 team league and I think the Slovak's do as well?

Small leagues with not enough riders probably makes sense.

Don't think it's viable for our league tho.

The Finnish League does indeed run on a four riders per team basis, with five teams currently operating in the league (one team sits out each round). I'm not sure what format is used in other countries but the SM-Liiga has a race format where pairs ride against other pairs.

It isn't a bad format and is certainly the best option for league speedway in Finland at the moment, as it would be unlikely that any club could afford to pay (or indeed have enough riders available) to run a full team of seven riders.

If the current decline in riders taking up the sport continues in the UK and indeed around the World, I think that in all likelihood we will eventually see a four riders per team format in the UK; unless we accept the inevitability of less tracks operating.