mikebv Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 One of the ways I've started to enjoy Speedway again, is not to be all consumed by it anymore. In the past, I used to be like a sponge and find out everything I could on the sport. Be completely up to date with what was happening, know what all the riders were up to and how they were doing, riding etc. Immerse myself in the rules, politics, stats and averages. In the end...it drives you nuts. You become so frustrated, because of how the sport has become, the silly rules, lack of riders, doubling up, lack of teams, poor fixture arrangements. So I've walked away from all that. I barely know about the riders these days. I show some interest...but just enough to know what's going on, on the night. I treat it like the circus it has become. I go to be entertained by the 'clowns'...I don't need to know anything much about them. Just entertained by their performance on the night. Just enjoy the actual racing...don't bother with a programme anymore. I just listen to the announcer. And now Somerset have a Scoreboard, it's easy to know who's winning the meeting. Simples. I've also found reading less threads on this forum helps...as talking about which rider isn't appearing and what RR is being used, and how many teams haven't got a full 7 just makes you even more depressed ;-) Understand your outlook... Shouldn't be required when following a supposed Professional sport though should it? In fact I would suggest the sport is fortunate you take such a view and make such allowances for it's glaring inadequacies.. Understandably, not too many others do the same looking at the attendances... Think you will find there is still emotional attachment to teams and riders, teams do not change wholesale yearly.... Think you will find far, far more ex fans have lost that emotional attachment to teams and riders. Hence the terraces reflect their feelings... Teams do not change wholesale yearly you say..? Correct, they change wholesale WEEKLY... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted July 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 Understand your outlook... Shouldn't be required when following a supposed Professional sport though should it? In fact I would suggest the sport is fortunate you take such a view and make such allowances for it's glaring inadequacies.. Understandably, not too many others do the same looking at the attendances... Think you will find far, far more ex fans have lost that emotional attachment to teams and riders. Hence the terraces reflect their feelings... Teams do not change wholesale yearly you say..? Correct, they change wholesale WEEKLY... I agree...but imo, the Sport has never truly been run 'Professionally' even it's hey day. The Sport was allowed to evolve with no fore thought to the future...it was always 'make hay while the sun shines'. Promotors should have done their utmost to have purpose built speedway tracks way back when. Not as so many did, rely on other sports to use their facilities. Football, Rugby, Cricket...they all produced their own grounds. Speedway was the second highest attended sport at one point...investments were hardly made imo. Plus...Individual and Team Speedway should have been totally different 'codes' imo. Team supplied engines etc...not reliant on a bunch of individuals, providing their own equipment to make up 'Teams'. The 'problems' we have now...stem right back to how we let the sport evolve and now we are having to live with the consequences. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 Do U have a gut feel (or stats) on how many are injury facilities and how many due to "other absences." The latter category I would assume could be army least 90% eliminated by better fixture planning I have the data for the PL: 81 absences (58 guests inc 5/6 "no facility" and 23 where r/r used) Injury - 36 (Charles Wright and Jason Garrity 5 absences head the list - Leicester (10) have the most and Belle Vue (1) the least.) riding abroad - 25 (13 FIM mtgs, 7 'domestic' and 5 'no facility' [3 SEC, 1 longtrack, 1 grasstrack] - Belle Vue head the list with 7 instances) Doubling Up - 18 (Erik Riss 3 times - Leicester 6 and Somerset 5 are most frequent users of facility for double-uppers) illness - 2 (Josh Bates and Dany Gappmaier) Note r/r was used in 18 of the 38 injury/illness absences vs 5 of 43 in cases of riding elsewhere For comparison in 2016 absences (no up to end of June in brackets) Injury 73 (21) [nb first half of last season was unusually low) riding abroad 58 (18) [inc one where no rider was used following an objection to Poole's choice of replacement for Adam Ellis) doubling-up 22 (7) illness 10 (3) suspend/withholding serv 8 (5) other 4 (1) [3 family reasons, 1 attending civic ceremony in Poland!] I would expect the number of facilities for riders riding elsewhere (both in the CL and abroad) to increase in the second half of the season as more fixtures are re-arranged ones nb There is an element of judgement. For example I have assumed Erik Riss was riding in an FIM meeting (TWO days later) when a guest was used for him on 3 June although this was not the reason publicly announced. Also there are a couple of examples of riders riding abroad who would have been absent anyway due to a doubling up commitment (e.g. Gappmaier on 15 June) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) I agree...but imo, the Sport has never truly been run 'Professionally' even it's hey day. The Sport was allowed to evolve with no fore thought to the future...it was always 'make hay while the sun shines'. Promotors should have done their utmost to have purpose built speedway tracks way back when. Not as so many did, rely on other sports to use their facilities. Football, Rugby, Cricket...they all produced their own grounds. Speedway was the second highest attended sport at one point...investments were hardly made imo. Plus...Individual and Team Speedway should have been totally different 'codes' imo. Team supplied engines etc...not reliant on a bunch of individuals, providing their own equipment to make up 'Teams'. The 'problems' we have now...stem right back to how we let the sport evolve and now we are having to live with the consequences. 100%... What didn't get recognised when the Sport was 'successful' was that the main reason down to it's success was it's continued presence on TV. Which was fuelled not by Domestic Team Speedway coverage but the TV performances of individual riders on the World Stage. In that time GB dominated the 'World Cup' and had several riders capable of winning individual World Titles (PC being the icing on the cake for TV audiences)... Cricket and Rugby are both Sports that recognised 'National Success' brought a knock on effect to their domestic league competitions and delivered a clear operational model that focused on this... What Speedway had post 1980 was a zero action plan to maintain the positive position, in fact this country sped up the progress of all it's major Speedway rivals by signing up as many of their riders as they could! Even in the early nineties the Sport at the top level had teams with crowds a 'Third Division' Football team would have thought 'ok'. Nowadays a top league team would kill for that level of support.. Some seem to blame the GP's, Poland and Sweden for the demise of the sport in this country. I would suggest the only reason to blame them is that their professionalism makes this countries operating model look so ridiculously amatuerish.. The GP's in particular delivers outstanding racing and entertainment which domestic speedway should feed off and gain success from. (Just like it did 40 years ago)... There has never been so much 'good' Speedway on TV with which to advertise the Sport, yet where did the 'Sky money' go? I heard from one promoter that basically "it paid for the No1 rider".. If so, WOW, what a short sighted waste of a huge amount of cash being brought into the sport.. It's good to see the work being done around British youth development, (thirty years too late sadly) but nevertheless it has started... Maybe in five years time the blueprint of when the Sport was successful can be repeated...? ie British riders filling most teams, fixture lists delivering regular, credible, same night Speedway each week ran mostly with integrity, and the domestic league's being in charge of their own destiny rather than having to be subservient to others, meekly accepting their position without fight.... Turning British Speedway round is a huge undertaking. So big you do have to wonder if it ever really could be done. Maybe its simply just an inescapable fact that too many glaring short sighted mistakes have been made over the past forty years and it will never be any better than it is today? Be sad to see, but maybe time to just accept it..? Edited July 1, 2017 by mikebv 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmauger Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) One of the ways I've started to enjoy Speedway again, is not to be all consumed by it anymore. In the past, I used to be like a sponge and find out everything I could on the sport. Be completely up to date with what was happening, know what all the riders were up to and how they were doing, riding etc. Immerse myself in the rules, politics, stats and averages. In the end...it drives you nuts. You become so frustrated, because of how the sport has become, the silly rules, lack of riders, doubling up, lack of teams, poor fixture arrangements. So I've walked away from all that. I barely know about the riders these days. I show some interest...but just enough to know what's going on, on the night. I treat it like the circus it has become. I go to be entertained by the 'clowns'...I don't need to know anything much about them. Just entertained by their performance on the night. Just enjoy the actual racing...don't bother with a programme anymore. I just listen to the announcer. And now Somerset have a Scoreboard, it's easy to know who's winning the meeting. Simples. I've also found reading less threads on this forum helps...as talking about which rider isn't appearing and what RR is being used, and how many teams haven't got a full 7 just makes you even more depressed ;-) Most of the above, kinda inflicted on me anyhoo as no team to support. I still take the Star & Backtrack, watch most TV meets, get to Scunny once a month or so. Wheras once I could instantly recognise almost each and every rider on sight, on or off track, and recount his speedway history, and quote chapter & verse of pretty much every rule, and call each on-track decision correctly 99% of the time (though we can all do that !) now I find I can't, and aren't over-bothered about it. I find getting over passionate and wound up only ever lessens and decreases the interest, you gotta find a way to enjoy speedway on your own terms. Then it's still a great soprt..... Edited July 1, 2017 by Martin Mauger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chadster Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 If we could bring someone back from 1964, I would imagine they might find this thread familiar. One league was running black, the top flight was down to 7 sides (with one of them closing at the end of the season) and the country's best rider, and one of its biggest drawcards) had been killed the year before. And yet, things did improve quite dramatically, as we know. So things can change. Arguably, the challenges now are greater and the external agency that brought about the change (the Shawcross report) isn't there, but dramatic change is possible. There's a lot of comment on this and other threads about the sport not being run 'professionally' and yet in its golden years speedway was always a semi-professional sport, and with attendances as they are, it really needs to go back to being that again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) Poland's huge crowds are nothing new and it's down to tradition more than a professionalism that British promoters do not possess. Once the stifling control of Communism was lifted and the sport there started trading in 'hard' currency that was convertible to western equivalents it was inevitable with such crowds that the money would become available to capture the world's best riders. Now, Sundays had long been reserved by star riders for racing in lucrative meetings, usually long track or grasstrack, mainly in Germany. Eastbourne attempted to run Division One on a Sunday and came a cropper. Poland then became the target for the 'extra income Sundays' which in theory should not have affected Britain, but for the fact that the monies available from one day's racing in Poland soon started to exceed those from a week's racing in Britain. With up to 14 SGP and SWC Saturdays as well riders didn't need Britain anymore. Even the most adept British promoter couldn't have stood up to this onslaught. It's far to easy to blame the BSPA, too easy. They were up against too much, especially when some Polish tracks were running to massive crowds in stadia provided by the local council! Poland and to a lesser extent Sweden have kept up momentum they've had for years, although Sweden now seems to be faltering. Britain lost its momentum, partly through the BSPA's lack of vision but I would say they didn't stand a chance. And then One Sport started putting the boot in too....... When the BSPA tried to stand up to One Sport they were accused of being short-sighted! I've been deeply frustrated with my few dealings with the BSPA, often indirectly but in this case they have my sympathy. The constant fiddling and changing of the rules, turning the regs into a labyrinth of ambiguity and contradiction is another matter. I used to have a good grasp of them but the rules on team building and changes are just too far gone to bother trying to understand now. Edited July 1, 2017 by Rob McCaffery 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) Agree it's 'tough out there' Rob, however what the BSPA hasn't done is adapt to the changing Speedway world. Instead often bemoaning that they are a victim of it.. And before moaning maybe they should remember Sky have put millions into their collective coffers over the past 15 years or so.... My local football team is Stockport County. They are non league but solvent, attracting around 3,000 fans a match.. My team is Manchester United who play seven miles away from County but in Football terms they are light years away from them.. The same sport but both participants with very different agendas... County not many years ago were in the second tier of English football, nowadays they are in the sixth tier. However instead of trying to compete with the United's of Football they have cut their cloth accordingly. Success for them may be promotion but can also be solvency and maybe even profit... British Speedway simply hasn't faced up to the fact that it is now 'Stockport County' and still tries to compete with the 'Manchester United' of Poland and the 'Liverpool' of Sweden.. It cannot compete with them so shouldn't even waste time, energy and money even trying to... What it should have done is build it's own identity, with clear rules and regulations.. Instead it always tries to do a 'cobbled together halfway house, nearly, but not quite fit for purpose' plan which ultimately does no one any favours... The Speedway world has moved on in the past twenty years. British Speedway simply hasn't moved on with it... Instead it has buried it's head in the sand hoping everything would have turned back to how it used to be by the time they take their head out again.. It can still be a great sport. But loads of radical changes are needed. Many of which are within the gift of the BSPA... If they have the vision and balls to make them... Edited July 1, 2017 by mikebv 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 How can you adapt to a situation where others are holding all the aces? Be corralled into racing about 7-10 home meetings a year on a Monday? If that's survival, give me the NL any day.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) How can you adapt to a situation where others are holding all the aces? Be corralled into racing about 7-10 home meetings a year on a Monday? If that's survival, give me the NL any day.... Rob, they have been backed into what is in many ways a self inflicted corner... Time maybe to start to come out fighting? Tigers do that I believe?... Team GB showed tonight that there are guys who can compete at the upper echelons.. From such acorns etc... Edited July 2, 2017 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 One of the ways I've started to enjoy Speedway again, is not to be all consumed by it anymore. In the past, I used to be like a sponge and find out everything I could on the sport. Be completely up to date with what was happening, know what all the riders were up to and how they were doing, riding etc. Immerse myself in the rules, politics, stats and averages. In the end...it drives you nuts. You become so frustrated, because of how the sport has become, the silly rules, lack of riders, doubling up, lack of teams, poor fixture arrangements. So I've walked away from all that. I barely know about the riders these days. I show some interest...but just enough to know what's going on, on the night. I treat it like the circus it has become. I go to be entertained by the 'clowns'...I don't need to know anything much about them. Just entertained by their performance on the night. Just enjoy the actual racing...don't bother with a programme anymore. I just listen to the announcer. And now Somerset have a Scoreboard, it's easy to know who's winning the meeting. Simples. I've also found reading less threads on this forum helps...as talking about which rider isn't appearing and what RR is being used, and how many teams haven't got a full 7 just makes you even more depressed ;-) I thought for a minute I'd posted this and forgot I'd posted it!! It's the way I view speedway these days. Enjoy the racing on the night and leave it at that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) Rob, they have been backed into what is in many ways a self inflicted corner... Time maybe to start to come out fighting? Tigers do that I believe?... Team GB showed tonight that there are guys who can compete at the upper echelons.. From such acorns etc... They have come out fighting, boycotting One Sport's (failed) attempts to make the situation worse and realising that a period of rebuilding through partial isolationism and accepting the reality that the star riders do not need British Speedway - for now. When the BSPA staged the One Sport boycott they were accused of being fools and when they reorganised the leagues to reflect the current realities of the sport they were accused of stupidly watering down the league. The BSPA wasted a fortune in the Sky money trying to pay the star riders to race here. It didn't work and now what money is still being paid from the last deal is still trickling through unless BT come up with a very generous deal it's not coming back. So, since you and many others cannot or will not see that they have indeed 'come out fighting' exactly what are they supposed to do? Despite the face-saving comments about too many race nights made by many riders, the overall race schedule in Britain is at its lowest for decades which does reveal what I believe to be the truth - we don't pay enough. Now how are we going to pay enough? It's too easy to take the assumption that the BSPA are clueless idiots and rubbish anything they do but instead of vague generalisations how about some specifics apart from the ruinous one race night scheme?. Yes the GB team showed great spirit last night and could go on to get us noticed by the national media again and congratulations to them. In the short-term that does little for domestic league racing except prove that you can always find new heroes to replace those who have deserted us. British Speedway has come out fighting, firstly by reorganising the leagues into some form of sanity as effectively one large second division plus the NL. Tracks like Birmingham, Lakeside and Eastbourne have found that operating at a more affordable level is not the end of the world - their fans have their new heroes and the tracks seem now to be stable. I don't think many can see the fundamental change that came in the winter, beyond rtidiculing the assessed averages necessary to bring the two top leagues together. Changes like that don't settle straight away and there have been flaws such as what to do after the first real averages are achieved but at least the correct course has finally been set. The top stars are available to us through cheap foreign travel and plenty of TV coverage. For now we have to accept that's where they are, and along with chasing the big money in Poland, its where they only seem to show their true skill and full commitment rather than having a paid practice 'skid'. Next priority is to sort out the ridiculous rule book and for goodness' sake simplify the rules regarding averages and team building! Edited July 2, 2017 by Rob McCaffery 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) For me Rob, the One Sport boycott is another example of 'right intention, but half arsed way of dealing with it', something the BSPA always seem to do... Laudably they wanted to protect domestic meetings yet all they managed to do in reality was block British riders gaining experience against decent opposition... Meetings are still being disrupted at the drop of a hat as foreign riders can still openly miss British Speedway to compete in One Sport meetings... To compound the issue you then get teams allowed a guest rider up to only 4pts making the meeting yet another 'Mickey Mouse' event... If the BSPA were truly serious about standing up to those who impact their business they would ensure riders only got contracts over here if they committed to EVERY match... The riders who are invited to compete in SEC, Beat Pairs etc are invariably good second string/heat leader level over here in the Premiership so will be earning a fair few quid out of British Speedway.. Therefore they should be given the ultimatum before signing a contract. ie earn a sporadic £5k or so a night riding for One Sport or earn over considerably ten times that riding a full season over here... All the boycott in its current form does is short change the fans and deliver yet more meetings with zero credibility, (the very thing the BSPA commendably wanted to avoid)... As for teams dropping down, I can see that as a positive, but only if the reasons for their self demotion are dealt with... Fixing the operating model which led to these clubs needing to drop to the bottom rung of the sport to survive is key I would suggest... Ultimately carrying on doing the 'same old, same old' can surely only result in the National League being the League in this country with most teams over the next few years as more teams see it as salvation for their ills... Edited July 2, 2017 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsoil Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 I thought for a minute I'd posted this and forgot I'd posted it!! It's the way I view speedway these days. Enjoy the racing on the night and leave it at that That's certainly my outlook. I'm there to see four riders, any four riders, hopefully with close racing. I don't get hung up on guests, rider replacement, doubling up, tactical rides, because it's still four riders dong four laps. I also go for the social side, a laugh with the group I'm with. As a result of this, I enjoy the meetings I go to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 At Eastbourne on Saturday there was a very good crowd, despite going up against the world cup on TV. At mildenhall today the crowd was again decent. You can see why some clubs have jumped ship to the calmer waters of the NL. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 That's certainly my outlook. I'm there to see four riders, any four riders, hopefully with close racing. I don't get hung up on guests, rider replacement, doubling up, tactical rides, because it's still four riders dong four laps. I also go for the social side, a laugh with the group I'm with. As a result of this, I enjoy the meetings I go to.Thats the outlook of many fans now,trouble is they also pick there meetings to go to and are not regular attenders anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) At Eastbourne on Saturday there was a very good crowd, despite going up against the world cup on TV. At mildenhall today the crowd was again decent. You can see why some clubs have jumped ship to the calmer waters of the NL. Probably my happiest seasons for announcing were the Rye House nomadic revival in 1999 then Boston and Mildenhall the year after, plus a few meetings at Iwade, all at Conference League/National League level or below in the last case. All the pressures seemed off and we could just enjoy a good match of speedway. I was all fun again and there was plenty of good racing. Edited July 3, 2017 by Rob McCaffery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalan Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Have to agree Rob when Poole ran the Buccaneers, it was my most enjoyable 2 seasons of speedway. Whether it was because all the riders were more accessible I'm not sure but was a great couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Have to agree Rob when Poole ran the Buccaneers, it was my most enjoyable 2 seasons of speedway. Whether it was because all the riders were more accessible I'm not sure but was a great couple of years. It was the kind of speedway that I first fell in love with. At Rayleigh in 1971 my heroes were Hugh Saunders and Geoff Maloney. It didn't matter to me that they weren't the best riders in the world, they were my team's best. It wasn't racing for big money or prestige, costs all-round were cut to the bone but loved every meeting. Some seem to think that the flashy, expensive gimmicks that were adopted by riders in the eighties 'dragged the sport forward'. No, it dragged their lifestyles forward then they expected a minor sport to find the money to fund it. There's too much pressure now to enjoy speedway fully - the desperation to win, riders always needing to be somewhere else. It just strips the joy from what should be a simple sport of four guys racing four laps on an oval track. When that was enough the sport was healthy. It isn't now and the sport is sick. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) It was the kind of speedway that I first fell in love with. At Rayleigh in 1971 my heroes were Hugh Saunders and Geoff Maloney. It didn't matter to me that they weren't the best riders in the world, they were my team's best. It wasn't racing for big money or prestige, costs all-round were cut to the bone but loved every meeting. Some seem to think that the flashy, expensive gimmicks that were adopted by riders in the eighties 'dragged the sport forward'. No, it dragged their lifestyles forward then they expected a minor sport to find the money to fund it. There's too much pressure now to enjoy speedway fully - the desperation to win, riders always needing to be somewhere else. It just strips the joy from what should be a simple sport of four guys racing four laps on an oval track. When that was enough the sport was healthy. It isn't now and the sport is sick. That Post mirrors my view exactly Rob. We, at Sunderland, didn't have a great Team back in 1971 but the important thing was they were OUR Team. They were OUR Riders and we loved watching them and talking to them. When Speedway lost that personal touch - I think that, to an extent, it lost it's soul. Edited July 3, 2017 by The White Knight 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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