The Month Of June...

[crazyb]

BEGINNING to think that a combined league is inevitable. Tracks need more fixtures, simple as that.

 

 

It was tried in the mid-nineties and to me was brilliant, but it nearly ruined the Scottish sides who also struggled to get riders. I would love it to return to a combined league (not counting the NL sides, although one or two might want to join).

If it is too costly, then go for three regionalised leagues, with play-offs. This would need more thinking out than what the BSPA seem capable of doing, as there are two or three teams that are borderline geographically, but more local derbies should be a crowd-puller most of the time; although you get to the old problem of not enough riders, but it's worth a try.

In my honest opinion the GP circus hasn't helped British speedway at all. It has no novelty value now (and that's all it was before really), with meetings every two weeks or so: and the same goes for the World Team Cup. This should never be every year, and we now get to the stupid rule of riders having to miss fixtures for their own sides for a week or so. One or two meetings in total for June and July combines says it all!

There needs to be a total revamp, and if the outcome means that riders turn their backs on the UK so be it, but the grass is always greener, or so they say.

[SCB]

Do U have a gut feel (or stats) on how many are injury facilities and how many due to "other absences." The latter category I would assume could be army least 90% eliminated by better fixture planning

I don't track reason for a sense. I just did a count of the number of riders in each meeting who took at least one ride. Then I did the same but removed any riders who were not oh the teams declared 1-7 at the time.

[SCB]

Just thinking, this weekend I'll try and run stats that show how often a rider is missing but is riding in another meeting on the same date. That'll show missing double uppers.

[RobMcCaffery]

 

 

It was tried in the mid-nineties and to me was brilliant, but it nearly ruined the Scottish sides who also struggled to get riders. I would love it to return to a combined league (not counting the NL sides, although one or two might want to join).

 

Regionalisation works okay for those well on one side of the splits but for those literally on the borderline they can be robbed of vital local derbies only to have to face extra journeys to long-distant tracks.

 

Regarding the 1990s fiasco the problem then was that the amalgamation was on Division One's terms and the former NL/D2 teams were unrealistically expected to strengthen up whilst the D1 tracks refused to release assets to allow this to happen.

 

The situation now is that this yewar's partial merger has been based on the old PL, as can be seen from the use of old PL averages or EL averages converted to 'fit'. The next logical step is a single league. Bringing the SGBC and SGBP teams level would take far less pain than twenty years ago.

 

One aspect that has to be considered though is that inevitably the combined league would be dominated by those tracks with greatest fan and cash base. At present some of the less economically powerful SGBC sides have a reasonable chance of being in the fight for honours right up until the play-offs, albeit honours which carry less prestige.

 

In times when people talk about seasons being 'over' once they can't win honours, and not simply enjoying the sport and looking at honours as being essential, not a lovely bonus, I worry that the lower teams will lose this fair-weather support once they decide that they can't cover themselves in reflected glory.

 

To put it simply, a combined league will have too many teams without a chance of winning a title. Okay, in the past it worked but I believe supporters weren't so obsessed with their track winning the league back then and just enjoyed a good night's racing, whether league, challenge, individual pairs or the Easter Egg Cup. Intolerance for 'meaningless' matches has reached crisis proportions.

 

We are starved of fixtures not just because of small leagues and rider commitments elsewhere, but because any extra meetings apart from league fixtures don't pay because the crowds won't turn up.

 

Right now an SGBP track has a minimum of 15 home matches (14 league + 1 cup) while the SGBPC version has 19.

 

Running a combined 18 team league will produce 18 meetings (17 league + 1 cup).

 

Obviously the benefit would be greater variety of opposition but those halcyon days of 30+ home fixtures a season saw only a maximum of 19 home league fixtures (when the NNL briefly had 20 teams). The gap was made up of open meetings and I doubt many modern promoters could trust their crowds to support them now.

 

I despise the word 'meaningless', it's cost us so much entertainment and left us just with the bare bones of league racing. Everyone has to be a winner or it's pointless.

 

Attitudes need to change. Sadly I doubt they will now. Perhaps it's a spin-off from people viewing the sport as too expensive and insufficiently entertaining?

[The White Knight]

 

 

It was tried in the mid-nineties and to me was brilliant, but it nearly ruined the Scottish sides who also struggled to get riders. I would love it to return to a combined league (not counting the NL sides, although one or two might want to join).

If it is too costly, then go for three regionalised leagues, with play-offs. This would need more thinking out than what the BSPA seem capable of doing, as there are two or three teams that are borderline geographically, but more local derbies should be a crowd-puller most of the time; although you get to the old problem of not enough riders, but it's worth a try.

In my honest opinion the GP circus hasn't helped British speedway at all. It has no novelty value now (and that's all it was before really), with meetings every two weeks or so: and the same goes for the World Team Cup. This should never be every year, and we now get to the stupid rule of riders having to miss fixtures for their own sides for a week or so. One or two meetings in total for June and July combines says it all!

There needs to be a total revamp, and if the outcome means that riders turn their backs on the UK so be it, but the grass is always greener, or so they say.

You will never write a truer, more accurate sentence in your life. :approve:

[RobMcCaffery]

You will never write a truer, more accurate sentence in your life. :approve:

Of course. 12 GP Saturdays plus the 'oh-so-vital practice' session plus 2 SWC Saturdays and that's half the season's weekends wrecked. The fear was that One Sport's made up events would add another six but thankfully they seem to be confined to midweeks now, often on a bank holiday Thursday somewhere near the Carpathians.

 

I still can't believe people here can't see why the BSPA boycotted the One Sport events which essentially only benefit One Sport and their sponsors.

 

We can't live with the GP circus so have to live without it.

[daveallan81]

Do U have a gut feel (or stats) on how many are injury facilities and how many due to "other absences." The latter category I would assume could be army least 90% eliminated by better fixture planning

 

I've done figures for doubling up replacements. I also picked up on a couple of errors so figures are very slightly revised from before.

 

Total matches sampled 210. 113 uses of R/R of which 7 were for d/u. Of the 228 guests, 45 were for d/u.

[Chadster]

I wonder if you had one big league with each team meeting each other once home and away, whether what are now regarded as 'meaningless' meetings would become more meaningful? For example, Swindon, Somerset and Poole could begin the season with a mini-league, in the knowledge that those teams would only be visiting once more, rather than twice. Similarly, individual meetings would be more attractivebecse they would be featuring riders visiting for the third of fourth time. As an old-fashioned old-timer, I'd like to see one big league but, the BSPA having loudly proclaimed the bold new future of British speedway last winter, I can't see them making more far-reaching changes soon.

[RobMcCaffery]

I wonder if you had one big league with each team meeting each other once home and away, whether what are now regarded as 'meaningless' meetings would become more meaningful? For example, Swindon, Somerset and Poole could begin the season with a mini-league, in the knowledge that those teams would only be visiting once more, rather than twice. Similarly, individual meetings would be more attractivebecse they would be featuring riders visiting for the third of fourth time. As an old-fashioned old-timer, I'd like to see one big league but, the BSPA having loudly proclaimed the bold new future of British speedway last winter, I can't see them making more far-reaching changes soon.

You do make a very good point. Perhaps familiarity does genuinely breed contempt. I recall Len Silver speaking out about Hull visiting Waterden Road without Ivan Mauger, on the basis that it was his only 'free' appearance. You would expect with Ivan that any appearance apart from a league match would come with a hefty appearance fee.

 

With so many absences it does make you wonder if it does help people see a star rider on the basis that there are two chances? But, with so few open meetings now the maximum number of times you might see another team at your track is four, barring cup replays - (2 league, 1 cup and 1 play-off). Add in guest appearances and you could see one 'away' rider in about 1/3 of your home meetings!

Edited June 30, 2017 by Rob McCaffery

[The White Knight]

You do make a very good point. Perhaps familiarity does genuinely breed contempt. I recall Len Silver speaking out about Hull visiting Waterden Road without Ivan Mauger, on the basis that it was his only 'free' appearance. You would expect with Ivan that any appearance apart from a league match would come with a hefty appearance fee.

 

With so many absences it does make you wonder if it does help people see a star rider on the basis that there are two chances? But, with so few open meetings now the maximum number of times you might see another team at your track is four, barring cup replays - (2 league, 1 cup and 1 play-off). Add in guest appearances and you could see one 'away' rider in about 1/3 of your home meetings!

Personally I mourn the passing of the Open Meetings - the 'one off' World Final too.

 

I really used to enjoy them - just another thing that has gone out of Speedway presumably for cost purposes. It's exactly the same with the 'Golden Helmet' and the 'Silver Sash', Second Halves too are a sad miss, also Four Team Tournaments.

 

So many good things gone from Speedway. The Sport now is just a shadow of it's former self in this Country. People of my age (70s and older) certainly had the best that Speedway had to offer. I have absolutely no doubt about that................

[Fromafar]

I never seen such a year with such a disaster of a fixture list this season,it can't go like this.

[The White Knight]

I never seen such a year with such a disaster of a fixture list this season,it can't go like this.

I think you'll find that it can. :sad:

[RobMcCaffery]

 

I really used to enjoy them - just another thing that has gone out of Speedway presumably for cost purposes. It's exactly the same with the 'Golden Helmet' and the 'Silver Sash', Second Halves too are a sad miss, also Four Team Tournaments.

 

It was all about cost, not just supporters failing to turn up. I strongly suspect tactical subs were replaced by your bugbear, along with match races disappearing when the cost of asking senior riders to take an extra ride got too high. Open meetings and second halves weren't helped by riders not taking them seriously, especially by way of 'split points' in the latter. Riders reportedly hated trophies - unlike cash you couldn't split them four ways. So by using open events as practice sessions they lost those extra pay nights.

 

In about 1990 Barry Klatt suggested a special second half event at Rye House, the 'devil takes the hindmost'. Four riders would race one lap. After that lap the last man would be eliminated, then another start with three riders, and finally a match race. Riders complained it was costing them too much to make three clutch starts...

 

The criticism of the 4TTs was that promoters had to pay for three away meetings on the proceeds of one home match. The idea of course was that this would be offset by having three sets of visiting fans. I remember seeing my first Ken-Ex fours at Rayleigh in '71 and being fascinated that the sport could have so many formats. Rayleigh, Romford, Canterbury and Eastbourne at each others' throats made a heck of an impact on this 13 year old.

 

Today it would be dismissed as 'meaningless'.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Rob McCaffery

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

For me British speedway has all but died ,apart from ones I've worked at I haven't attended a single league meeting in either of the top two leagues this year and I can't say I want to either and I live 3 miles from wolves track but I just don't want to go anymore ,doubling up has killed the team aspect So what's the point of supporting your team ? I have been to a few national league meetings and a couple of polish league but I feel like the sport in Britain is just run for the riders now and the fans don't matter , I have been very outspoken for a few years about the way the sport was heading and god knows I've had some stick for it but I've got to the point now where I believe the damage has been done and British speedway is doomed , it breaks my heart but where do we go from here cause I've had enough

[mikebv]

For me British speedway has all but died ,apart from ones I've worked at I haven't attended a single league meeting in either of the top two leagues this year and I can't say I want to either and I live 3 miles from wolves track but I just don't want to go anymore ,doubling up has killed the team aspect So what's the point of supporting your team ? I have been to a few national league meetings and a couple of polish league but I feel like the sport in Britain is just run for the riders now and the fans don't matter , I have been very outspoken for a few years about the way the sport was heading and god knows I've had some stick for it but I've got to the point now where I believe the damage has been done and British speedway is doomed , it breaks my heart but where do we go from here cause I've had enough

Promoters for me have simply given up as, deep down, they know they don't have the capability to sort out the myriad of inherent self inflicted operating model problems they have brought in to the sport over the years...

 

Incredibly they have used tens of millions of pounds of Sky money to put the sport in the current position it finds itself in today. (In Britain)..

 

Which is in reality, a non stop barrage of Mickey Mouse meetings ran with zero credibility (and often the same level of integrity). With none of these meetings having any place in a supposed National Championship of a Professional Sport....

 

As a follower of a Team in any Sport it is the emotional attachment that ties you in to 'your team' forever. Meaning even if they are not successful you cannot 'walk away'...

 

In Speedway 'your team' very rarely nowadays is actually on show meaning 'walking away' is really no hardship...

 

If there is no emotional attachment then there is no point attending Team Speedway, and if there is no point attending such an event then ultimately what is the point of wasting time, energy and money actually running it?

 

Too far gone sadly in this country to be turned around and be successful, what we have is truly I believe the best the current rulers of the sport can come up with given the level of finance, capability and desire needed to make the radical changes required...

Edited July 1, 2017 by mikebv

[Piotr Pyszny]

 

 

It was tried in the mid-nineties and to me was brilliant, but it nearly ruined the Scottish sides who also struggled to get riders. I would love it to return to a combined league (not counting the NL sides, although one or two might want to join).

If it is too costly, then go for three regionalised leagues, with play-offs. This would need more thinking out than what the BSPA seem capable of doing, as there are two or three teams that are borderline geographically, but more local derbies should be a crowd-puller most of the time; although you get to the old problem of not enough riders, but it's worth a try.

In my honest opinion the GP circus hasn't helped British speedway at all. It has no novelty value now (and that's all it was before really), with meetings every two weeks or so: and the same goes for the World Team Cup. This should never be every year, and we now get to the stupid rule of riders having to miss fixtures for their own sides for a week or so. One or two meetings in total for June and July combines says it all!

There needs to be a total revamp, and if the outcome means that riders turn their backs on the UK so be it, but the grass is always greener, or so they say.

 

Quite liked this season myself (though, at the time, I was watching a former National League team). IIRC, virtually every home match against a former British League team went to a last heat decider. Worryingly, however, the crowds barely increased. It meant for the promoter a big rise in costs yet barely any additional income. Away from home, on the track, it was an entirely different matter. The team I watched suffered numerous defeats by 30 points or more. Most matches, decided after a handful of heats, were a dismal spectacle. As a journalist on the local evening newspaper, at least I got to watch them for nothing.

 

As you say, a return to one division seems inevitable because there aren't enough clubs (or riders) to make viable a two-division set-up.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Piotr Pyszny

[Trees]

Promoters for me have simply given up as, deep down, they know they don't have the capability to sort out the myriad of inherent self inflicted operating model problems they have brought in to the sport over the years...

 

Incredibly they have used tens of millions of pounds of Sky money to put the sport in the current position it finds itself in today. (In Britain)..

 

Which is in reality, a non stop barrage of Mickey Mouse meetings ran with zero credibility (and often the same level of integrity). With none of these meetings having any place in a supposed National Championship of a Professional Sport....

 

As a follower of a Team in any Sport it is the emotional attachment that ties you in to 'your team' forever. Meaning even if they are not successful you cannot 'walk away'...

 

In Speedway 'your team' very rarely nowadays is actually on show meaning 'walking away' is really no hardship...

 

If there is no emotional attachment then there is no point attending Team Speedway, and if there is no point attending such an event then ultimately what is the point of wasting time, energy and money actually running it?

 

Too far gone sadly in this country to be turned around and be successful, what we have is truly I believe the best the current rulers of the sport can come up with given the level of finance, capability and desire needed to make the radical changes required...

Think you will find there is still emotional attachment to teams and riders, teams do not change wholesale yearly....

[Piotr Pyszny]

I never seen such a year with such a disaster of a fixture list this season,it can't go like this.

 

Here's an example: I barely watch any speedway nowadays (for most of the same reasons outlined by others many times on this forum), either live or on the telly. In this country, it's no longer value for money. Now, this season, I've had to be over in Cumbria (I live in North Yorkshire) on consecutive Saturdays, and thought 'I'll go to the speedway at Workington in the evening'. What did I find? On neither Saturday did the Comets have a meeting. It's a joke. When I was a speedway regular, more than a decade ago, you could count on every team having a fixture on virtually every one of their race days/nights.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Piotr Pyszny

[Gresham]

One of the ways I've started to enjoy Speedway again, is not to be all consumed by it anymore.

 

In the past, I used to be like a sponge and find out everything I could on the sport. Be completely up to date with what was happening, know what all the riders were up to and how they were doing, riding etc. Immerse myself in the rules, politics, stats and averages.

 

In the end...it drives you nuts. You become so frustrated, because of how the sport has become, the silly rules, lack of riders, doubling up, lack of teams, poor fixture arrangements.

 

So I've walked away from all that. I barely know about the riders these days. I show some interest...but just enough to know what's going on, on the night.

 

I treat it like the circus it has become. I go to be entertained by the 'clowns'...I don't need to know anything much about them. Just entertained by their performance on the night.

 

Just enjoy the actual racing...don't bother with a programme anymore. I just listen to the announcer. And now Somerset have a Scoreboard, it's easy to know who's winning the meeting. Simples.

 

I've also found reading less threads on this forum helps...as talking about which rider isn't appearing and what RR is being used, and how many teams haven't got a full 7 just makes you even more depressed ;-)

[screm]

For me British speedway has all but died ,apart from ones I've worked at I haven't attended a single league meeting in either of the top two leagues this year and I can't say I want to either and I live 3 miles from wolves track but I just don't want to go anymore ,doubling up has killed the team aspect So what's the point of supporting your team ? I have been to a few national league meetings and a couple of polish league but I feel like the sport in Britain is just run for the riders now and the fans don't matter , I have been very outspoken for a few years about the way the sport was heading and god knows I've had some stick for it but I've got to the point now where I believe the damage has been done and British speedway is doomed , it breaks my heart but where do we go from here cause I've had enough

 

The mish mash of riders doubling up here there and everywhere has become ludicrous so I agree that the sport is run for the riders with the paying customers a very poor second, seems some promoters expect their fans to turn up on any giving night and sometimes at short notice and watch two teams made up of R/R`s and guests a plenty. The fixture list has become even more complicated than the doubling up, meaning planning holidays from work in order to follow their teams for many fans has become a thing of the past. Also IMO many promoters have giving up actually going out and promoting, if things keep going tracks will disappear meaning the sport losing more fans though in some weird way less could mean more.